The Walking Dead thread. They've posted the first episode online: http://bit.ly/dy0CNA http://toyboxdx.com/phorum/read.php?5,224441,224441#msg-224441 Sat, 18 May 2013 20:31:32 -0400 Phorum 5.2.18 http://toyboxdx.com/phorum/read.php?5,224441,249595#msg-249595 Re: The Walking Dead thread. http://toyboxdx.com/phorum/read.php?5,224441,249595#msg-249595
Quote
Gcrush
[World War Z] might just kill the subgenre for a decade or so.

Heh...people are saying that about Warm Bodies. :P]]> Sanjeev The OT Wed, 10 Apr 2013 11:20:15 -0400 http://toyboxdx.com/phorum/read.php?5,224441,249586#msg-249586 Re: The Walking Dead thread. http://toyboxdx.com/phorum/read.php?5,224441,249586#msg-249586
Quote
gingaio
As dumb as this cartoon is, it's still smarter than Walking Dead when it comes to race.

Quote
Sanjeev
I'll take GI Joe's treatment of race over Walking Dead's. :P

Amen, doods. I'm with you on this one.

I think the racial tropes in TV are much more easier to extract than in comics if for no other reason that there is less material to breakdown and look at.

I almost forgot to mention before that the World War Z book is really fucking good, but nigh unfilmable. The audio adaptation wasn't bad, though it condensed a lot of material. The movie, on the other hand, looks awful with the tidalwaves of fast zombies. It might just kill the subgenre for a decade or so.]]> Gcrush The OT Tue, 09 Apr 2013 22:42:37 -0400 http://toyboxdx.com/phorum/read.php?5,224441,249576#msg-249576 Re: The Walking Dead thread. http://toyboxdx.com/phorum/read.php?5,224441,249576#msg-249576
Quote
Gcrush
I know the comic and tv show are supposed to be set around Atlanta, but I can't see either as truly racially aware until they show earnest Brother vs. Brother drama. I mean, when's the last time we saw any mainstream fiction where there were black protagonists and atagonists in the main cast?

^^So true.

Quote
Gcrush
My conclusion - the Salon author is way off-base for damning the tv show over the comic. And, really? Is there any reason why we should expect more from Walking Dead than any other mainstream fiction?

Well, it sounds to me like the comic is fucked up in its treatment of race...but it also sounds like the show perhaps exhibits more common, cut-and-dry racist tropes. The comic sounds a bit murkier. I don't fault the Salon author for writing that shit, though...'cause either way, it has raised some good dialogue about the topic. And that was likely her goal from the get.

And I agree with gingaio: I'll take GI Joe's treatment of race over Walking Dead's. :P]]> Sanjeev The OT Tue, 09 Apr 2013 12:04:50 -0400 http://toyboxdx.com/phorum/read.php?5,224441,249574#msg-249574 Re: The Walking Dead thread. http://toyboxdx.com/phorum/read.php?5,224441,249574#msg-249574
Quote
Gcrush
Tyrese does hook up with a White Girl, something more controversial (for a white audience) than a Sister getting with a White Man (which would be more controversial for a black audience), but he gets seduced by Michonne, who literally jumps on every Brother she comes across when she's not busy being rape-tortured by Evil Neighbors.

Michonne's rape-torture really annoyed me. It's used primarily for shock and to show what an unflinching badass Kirkman is, but it's not original in the least and serves only to illuminate a lot of nasty subconscious sexist/sadist qualities in the writer. Maybe he was just trying too hard to write a black Uma Thurman Bride. Or maybe he thinks having Michonne get repeatedly raped and beaten to a pulp is "character development" and shows "vulnerability."

As dumb as the TV show can get sometimes, I'll take it over the comic.

Quote
Gcrush
* Maybe in the Sunbow G.I. Joe cartoon series? We all know Destro was black, but he did have an ancestral home in Scotland and we never, ever saw his face. Besides, all the good guys that were black were c-stringers at best.

The Sunbow Joe series I still have a great fondness for, not to mention DVDs of. As utterly stupid and sleep-inducing (the somnambulistic effect being a major reason I watch the episodes) as they are, they also featured some interesting characterization, along with cardboard caricatures.

Take these three stooges:



What I liked about this trio is that the dumb buffoon with language problems who has to rely on his physicality is not the black or Asian guy. Alpine was a good character in that he didn't shuck and jive and generally did not have to rely on being a physical threat, which he was not. He was the straight man, the wit to the dimwit, as was Quick-Kick. Now granted, they ran up the Chinky factor a million watts on QK's outfit and area of soldierly expertise, but as evidenced by his being a smooth-talking ladies' man who scores with a white woman later on in the cartoon, the writers did seem to like stretching the mold occasionally.

Still, these three characters are second-stringers, though they did feature as prime players in their miniseries debut. As dumb as this cartoon is, it's still smarter than Walking Dead when it comes to race.


**One should also note how virility and machismo correspond directly with the lush fullness of the lip rug. Alpine and QK, clearly not as heavily butt-sweating neanderthal as Bazooka, have less to no facial hair. Too bad the writers/character designers didn't transcend more boundaries and allow the Asian guy to rock the thickest of 'staches.
]]> gingaio The OT Tue, 09 Apr 2013 03:59:27 -0400 http://toyboxdx.com/phorum/read.php?5,224441,249568#msg-249568 Re: The Walking Dead thread. http://toyboxdx.com/phorum/read.php?5,224441,249568#msg-249568
Quote
Sanjeev
Anyway, back to these rave reviews of the comic! ;) It doesn't surprise me in the slightest that the comics are crappy, soap-operatic piles of pooh...but I guess what I was getting at was specifically the treatment of race. It just seems like the comic characters are flat and derpy. But that's a far cry from the racial trappings of the tv characters...

Well... Tyrese (black) and Carol (white) become a couple. Michonne joins the group and immediately gives Tyrese a blow job because he is a retired NFL player. Carol sees this and has a mental breakdown. Carol proposes a three way with Rick and Lori, but gets rejected. Carol commits suicide-by-zombie. Michonne is later rape-tortured by the Gub'nuh. Tyrese is decapitated by the Gub'nuh. A random white girl from the Gub'nuh's army kills the Gub'nuh because she suddenly realizes he is evil and then she is never seen again. Michonne hooks up with the next black dood she meets, Crazy Morgan. Crazy Morgan gets bit, Michonne cuts off his arm, he dies anyway, she kills Zombie Crazy Morgan. Without any more Black Characters to choose from, Michonne goes it solo. Later she is captured by an Evil Neighbor who decides not to kill her because that would be racist; Evil Neighbor implies that he would like to rape her first before killing her. Evil Neighbor kills Glenn instead, but without any rape.

I'm not really sure that the comic fares better than the tv show. I can't remember if there was ever more than one Good Black Dood at a time, but I don't think there was. Tyrese does hook up with a White Girl, something more controversial (for a white audience) than a Sister getting with a White Man (which would be more controversial for a black audience), but he gets seduced by Michonne, who literally jumps on every Brother she comes across when she's not busy being rape-tortured by Evil Neighbors. Glenn breaks Asian stereotypes by getting a White Girl, but I think he's been the only Asian cast member. I can't recall any GLBT cast.

I know the comic and tv show are supposed to be set around Atlanta, but I can't see either as truly racially aware until they show earnest Brother vs. Brother drama. I mean, when's the last time we saw any mainstream fiction where there were black protagonists and atagonists in the main cast?* And even if they did there would still be the issue of 99% of the wimmin folk being only wives, girlfriends, or sex slaves despite being effective fighters.

My conclusion - the Salon author is way off-base for damning the tv show over the comic. And, really? Is there any reason why we should expect more from Walking Dead than any other mainstream fiction?





* Maybe in the Sunbow G.I. Joe cartoon series? We all know Destro was black, but he did have an ancestral home in Scotland and we never, ever saw his face. Besides, all the good guys that were black were c-stringers at best.]]> Gcrush The OT Mon, 08 Apr 2013 22:35:29 -0400 http://toyboxdx.com/phorum/read.php?5,224441,249552#msg-249552 Re: The Walking Dead thread. http://toyboxdx.com/phorum/read.php?5,224441,249552#msg-249552
Anyway, back to these rave reviews of the comic! ;) It doesn't surprise me in the slightest that the comics are crappy, soap-operatic piles of pooh...but I guess what I was getting at was specifically the treatment of race. It just seems like the comic characters are flat and derpy. But that's a far cry from the racial trappings of the tv characters...]]> Sanjeev The OT Mon, 08 Apr 2013 12:47:40 -0400 http://toyboxdx.com/phorum/read.php?5,224441,249549#msg-249549 Re: The Walking Dead thread. http://toyboxdx.com/phorum/read.php?5,224441,249549#msg-249549
Quote
Sanjeev
Sure, most definitely plenty of liberal racism in the article...but for me, the most interesting bit was that she said that most of these issues (projected or not) didn't exist at all in the original comic. Now, I haven't read page one of the books, but I'm super-curious about how accurate that assertion is, y'knowmsayin? Because if she's right, then all this off-color (heh) bullshit is *purely* an advent of the show. Somewhat damning of the show runners.

And wouldn't that suggest that comics don't necessarily suck after all??? ;)

I have read (far too much) of the comic books. They suck - bad - in terms of story telling, dialog, and art. They're basically a zombie fan-fic retelling of Job without the happy ending. And that's the highest priase I can muster.

As for the racism of the comics vs. soap opera... The characters in the comics are literally so interchangable that the artist (and writer) give them physical deformities so the readers can tell them apart. This is true for all the cast regardless of gender or race. One black dood even has a pet tiger.

And as for Andrea in the comic? She is a Nondescript White Girl "Now with Facial Scar!" who's most notable feature was having a sexual relationship with a man 40 years older than her. Until she learned how to use a rifle. Then she became Rick's Wife version 2.0.

I'm surprised that the comic has run on as long as it has. It's really more soap-opera-y than the tv show. The most recent story arcs are about post-apocalyptic trade networks. Featuring a character named Jesus. As in Gee-zeus. Not Hay-zeus. So... Yeah.]]> Gcrush The OT Mon, 08 Apr 2013 04:00:01 -0400 http://toyboxdx.com/phorum/read.php?5,224441,249537#msg-249537 Re: The Walking Dead thread. http://toyboxdx.com/phorum/read.php?5,224441,249537#msg-249537 H-man The OT Sat, 06 Apr 2013 19:10:19 -0400 http://toyboxdx.com/phorum/read.php?5,224441,249504#msg-249504 Re: The Walking Dead thread. http://toyboxdx.com/phorum/read.php?5,224441,249504#msg-249504
Quote
Sanjeev
Sure, most definitely plenty of liberal racism in the article...but for me, the most interesting bit was that she said that most of these issues (projected or not) didn't exist at all in the original comic. Now, I haven't read page one of the books, but I'm super-curious about how accurate that assertion is, y'knowmsayin? Because if she's right, then all this off-color (heh) bullshit is *purely* an advent of the show. Somewhat damning of the show runners.

And wouldn't that suggest that comics don't necessarily suck after all??? ;)

I think the comics kind of suck, as far as the quality of the writing and the depth of the characters (Andrea being an exception in that the comic version is better than the TV version). I don't remember the comic handling race/gender better or worse than the TV show, though it's been a while since I read them.]]> gingaio The OT Thu, 04 Apr 2013 14:32:28 -0400 http://toyboxdx.com/phorum/read.php?5,224441,249501#msg-249501 Re: The Walking Dead thread. http://toyboxdx.com/phorum/read.php?5,224441,249501#msg-249501
Quote
Sanjeev
Quote
gingaio
Anyway, not to derail, but looks like we're finally seeing commercials on tv for World War Z. Despite having fast-zombies, I'm looking forward to it given all the good things I've heard about the book. One thing I'm wondering, though: how many more zombie shows/movies/whatever before it just becomes "enough" (for now, anyway)? It sure seems like there's a pretty significant saturation of zombie-related stuff in the media and pop culture. I just wonder if we've seen the peak yet or if there's gonna be more to come. When are folks gonna get sick of it all?

On the WWZ thing - I've read the book. That is, I listened to the recording of it in the car. I highly recommend this way of enjoying the book because it's a full cast recording with different, fairly famous, actors doing the various characters (it's pretty much a documentary style, with each character responding to interview questions). Mark Hammill is an ex soldier in it, and he's fantastic. I think Rob Reiner is in there as well, among others. I really can't see how this book can really be made into a movie, though, without it being tremendously boring. That is, unless they completely revamp the way the story is told and take it away from being a series of interviews and actually show the action that the characters describe in the book.
]]> fujikuro The OT Thu, 04 Apr 2013 13:24:09 -0400 http://toyboxdx.com/phorum/read.php?5,224441,249498#msg-249498 Re: The Walking Dead thread. http://toyboxdx.com/phorum/read.php?5,224441,249498#msg-249498 at all in the original comic. Now, I haven't read page one of the books, but I'm super-curious about how accurate that assertion is, y'knowmsayin? Because if she's right, then all this off-color (heh) bullshit is *purely* an advent of the show. Somewhat damning of the show runners.

And wouldn't that suggest that comics don't necessarily suck after all??? ;)]]> Sanjeev The OT Thu, 04 Apr 2013 12:28:50 -0400 http://toyboxdx.com/phorum/read.php?5,224441,249495#msg-249495 Re: The Walking Dead thread. http://toyboxdx.com/phorum/read.php?5,224441,249495#msg-249495
Quote
Gcrush
I read through that article while on the subway and a lot of the liberal racism turned me off.

Michonne emasculating the two black man zombies in chains? The hood Merle puts on her head? White men fighting over buying/selling her? It seems to be more about the author projecting shit than actually "reading" it. First, I always thought part of the subtext about marriage in America was the wife emasculating the husband. I had no idea that was unique to Black Culture....

I think that's what bugged me most about her misrepresentation of Glenn being the one to give away the prison...the writer was shoehorning everything to fit a rather narrow(minded) critique of the show. She raises interesting objections, but yes, she also is projecting quite a bit.]]> gingaio The OT Thu, 04 Apr 2013 01:50:40 -0400 http://toyboxdx.com/phorum/read.php?5,224441,249493#msg-249493 Re: The Walking Dead thread. http://toyboxdx.com/phorum/read.php?5,224441,249493#msg-249493
Quote
Sanjeev
I do like that comment about post-apocalyptic rural Georgia perpetuating racial/gender stereotypes. I've always felt that was kinda weird about this show...like, it's *obviously* rural Georgia, but a lot of the characters have more of a educated/suburban (read: middle class) feel to them...accent or not. I kinda wonder if that was because of the writers (of the original comic or of the show) own biases, or if it was a calculated decision to make the comic/show appeal to more folks...

I guess it's both. I lived for several years in Hotlanta and, frankly, there just ain't enough open racism on the show to be realistic. The mistrust towards Michonne came close, but you see how quickly they all got over that. "See, we didn't trust you because we're slowly turning feral. It had absolutely nothing to do with you being a dangerous black woman with a six foot long razor blade on your back."

Anyway, the weird thing about open racism is how it has come to make even strongly prejudiced folks a little uncomfortable. That shit just ain't okay to talk about on most levels. So I'm sure it would go over like a lead balloon for mainstream television.


Quote
Sanjeev
Anyway, not to derail, but looks like we're finally seeing commercials on tv for World War Z. Despite having fast-zombies, I'm looking forward to it given all the good things I've heard about the book. One thing I'm wondering, though: how many more zombie shows/movies/whatever before it just becomes "enough" (for now, anyway)? It sure seems like there's a pretty significant saturation of zombie-related stuff in the media and pop culture. I just wonder if we've seen the peak yet or if there's gonna be more to come. When are folks gonna get sick of it all?

Zombies be up in the romance game now along with all the vampires, werewolfs, aliens, rowbutts, ghosts, and so on. We simply cannot be over-saturated with supernatural boogeymen. Especially when they're so bonerable? Is that the message? Yuck.]]> Gcrush The OT Thu, 04 Apr 2013 00:03:54 -0400 http://toyboxdx.com/phorum/read.php?5,224441,249492#msg-249492 Re: The Walking Dead thread. http://toyboxdx.com/phorum/read.php?5,224441,249492#msg-249492
Quote
Sanjeev
Regarding the writing of the show, I read this the other day:
[www.salon.com]
I found it a pretty concise breakdown of a lot of complaints made earlier in this thread.

But then again...I found the article was turning my brain to clay at a couple points! That's a whole LOT of thinking devoted to a schlocky zombie show. But I guess it had to be said...just like our discussions about Bayformers...

I read through that article while on the subway and a lot of the liberal racism turned me off.

Michonne emasculating the two black man zombies in chains? The hood Merle puts on her head? White men fighting over buying/selling her? It seems to be more about the author projecting shit than actually "reading" it. First, I always thought part of the subtext about marriage in America was the wife emasculating the husband. I had no idea that was unique to Black Culture. Second, I didn't realize that the continuous "utility" of hoods and chains in keeping prisoners and doing evil was confined to areas not involving the Trans-Atlantic Slave Trade; i.e. that it is a "black" issue as opposed to a "human rights" one (NSFW). Third, I didn't realize that skin color was the dominant issue during hostage taking. As opposed to, you know, the morality of dealing in human lives in general. Actually, all in all, I learned that TV melodramas about a post-apocalyptic word whose narrative tension is built entirely around Hobbesian dilemmas are actually more about how it is inappropriate to portray sensitive issues according to how they generally occur in real contexts. I mean, White Patriarchy? We shouldn't portray that because that would be offensive.

Bah.

I think the offensive part is not what the show portrays so much as how these issues don't get the opportunity to be challenged. Except that, oh, in some cases they do. T-Dog literally describes himself as precariously black and foresees his pending death as a result. Michonne literally grunts in frustration at her cold reception by the Good Cracker Clan; and she literally goes out and single-handedly tries to take down the heart of the white authority in the Evil Cracker Clan. This also doesn't include how Andrea complained about being left out of the decision making process. Or how Carol discusses her life under domestic violence. Or Merle using racist language and the others ostracizing him for it. Or how Lori struggled with abortion. Or Glenn struggling with his masculinity. Or everyone dealing with non-zombie violence. Etc.

I can't speak for anyone else, but my complaints have been about the lack of black actors and wasted character time. Atlanta is a pretty fucking Black City, much as Georgia is a pretty fucking Black State; we could really stand to see some more room in the cast made for black actors and actresses in terms of "realism" alone. Wasting half a season on a character whose motivations and actions defy even the internal logic of the story (just for the payoff of creating a pretty shitty chase scene) is bound to annoy audiences and probably reflects more on the hackneyed nature of team writing in television scripting than anything else; I will always hate that aspect of the medium and it's one reason I almost never watch TV shows.]]> Gcrush The OT Wed, 03 Apr 2013 23:49:53 -0400 http://toyboxdx.com/phorum/read.php?5,224441,249475#msg-249475 Re: The Walking Dead thread. http://toyboxdx.com/phorum/read.php?5,224441,249475#msg-249475
Quote
gingaio
The one thing that bugged me was that the writer kept saying Glenn gave up the prison's location to the Governor, but he didn't.

^^Good call...almost forgot about that!

But yeah, that Salon article was pretty harsh! Almost...zombie apocalyptic in it's brutality. :P One bit that felt potentially off to me was the assertion that Andrea just straight up threw herself at the nearest male with power. Even if that's how it played out, I just didn't get that impression. But then again, I'm a male, so my perception of sexism is somewhat stunted! ;)

I do like that comment about post-apocalyptic rural Georgia perpetuating racial/gender stereotypes. I've always felt that was kinda weird about this show...like, it's *obviously* rural Georgia, but a lot of the characters have more of a educated/suburban (read: middle class) feel to them...accent or not. I kinda wonder if that was because of the writers (of the original comic or of the show) own biases, or if it was a calculated decision to make the comic/show appeal to more folks...

Anyway, not to derail, but looks like we're finally seeing commercials on tv for World War Z. Despite having fast-zombies, I'm looking forward to it given all the good things I've heard about the book. One thing I'm wondering, though: how many more zombie shows/movies/whatever before it just becomes "enough" (for now, anyway)? It sure seems like there's a pretty significant saturation of zombie-related stuff in the media and pop culture. I just wonder if we've seen the peak yet or if there's gonna be more to come. When are folks gonna get sick of it all?]]> Sanjeev The OT Wed, 03 Apr 2013 12:27:00 -0400 http://toyboxdx.com/phorum/read.php?5,224441,249470#msg-249470 Re: The Walking Dead thread. http://toyboxdx.com/phorum/read.php?5,224441,249470#msg-249470
The one thing that bugged me was that the writer kept saying Glenn gave up the prison's location to the Governor, but he didn't.

Quote
Gcrush
I didn't see Andrea as a "Dale Clone" as much as "The Bully's Girlfriend". She loves a bad boy. She's befriended his victims. She's horrified at the bad things he does. She desperately wants to change him. She herself eventually becomes victimized by him. And then she gets eaten by a zombie that he locked in a room with her.* Which is all still fairly fucking lame. But at least she's gone now.

I can see this. The reason I think the writers are making her the sequel to Dale is that after the the revelation about the heads in the fishtank, she doesn't seem to be interested in him romantically anymore, or at least any more than she was romantically interested in Shane. With these dudes, it's more about what they can practically give her (gun training, a safe outpost) than about wanting to be with them.

The whole Rick/governor summit that she engineered seemed to me less about her feelings for the governor than for a desire to hold on to the vestiges of human civilization apparent in Woodbury and the prison, to not let things devolve into a tooth-and-claw, Hobbesian way of life, and this struggle echoed Dale's big struggle before he bit it. She did try to shoot him in the head, and the attempted to run from him, before being dragged back. The way it played out felt like Abused Woman Lifetime Movie theatrics, but again, I blame the writers more for wasting that character. And she was just getting interesting in season 2.]]> gingaio The OT Wed, 03 Apr 2013 00:27:33 -0400 http://toyboxdx.com/phorum/read.php?5,224441,249467#msg-249467 Re: The Walking Dead thread. http://toyboxdx.com/phorum/read.php?5,224441,249467#msg-249467 Roger The OT Tue, 02 Apr 2013 22:08:02 -0400 http://toyboxdx.com/phorum/read.php?5,224441,249463#msg-249463 Re: The Walking Dead thread. http://toyboxdx.com/phorum/read.php?5,224441,249463#msg-249463 [www.salon.com]
I found it a pretty concise breakdown of a lot of complaints made earlier in this thread.

But then again...I found the article was turning my brain to clay at a couple points! That's a whole LOT of thinking devoted to a schlocky zombie show. But I guess it had to be said...just like our discussions about Bayformers...]]> Sanjeev The OT Tue, 02 Apr 2013 15:06:12 -0400 http://toyboxdx.com/phorum/read.php?5,224441,249460#msg-249460 Re: The Walking Dead thread. http://toyboxdx.com/phorum/read.php?5,224441,249460#msg-249460
Quote
Gcrush

Questions:

Why does everyone still listen to Hershel? Is it because he's old and has one leg, or because he was keeping a barn full of zombies that eventually killed half his family and he never ever mentions it?

*** Because he's old (and the one leg thing probably helps). I don't see ol' Herschel lasting beyond next season as he's becoming that moral voice of reason that so rewarded Dale and Andrea. ***

Did Maggie and Glenn actually kill anyone in their shooting spree?

*** It had to take a second viewing, but it can be implied that maybe the Grimes Gang didn't want to kill any regular Woodburyians because they probably knew (through whatever intel Michonne and Andrea provided um... "off screen") that they were merely unwitting pawns of the Guv'nor and had spouses, children, and old folks waiting for them back in town so it was more of scare tactic knowning they were mostly unseasoned fighters. ****

Why did all those survivors leave the town and go to a prison that's half over-run with zombies?

**** Yeah, that was one of my "WTF?" moments.... leave the comfort of warm beds, hot showers, limited electricity and safer environment (since part of the prison was still full of ZOMBIES) for the Lori Grimes Memorial Correctionals Facility? Maybe they'll explain it more next season, but I guess they're worried that the town would leave them more open to Guv'nor attacks since he knows the town layout well....? ***

**** What has anyone been eating? ****

Whatever they can scrounge up?

**** Where do they poop? ****

Outside? Or are you referring to the Zombies?


* That scene was so hard to sit through because of how poorly it was planned and handled. She literally takes a break from trying to free herself just to chat with Zombie Come Lately. Ugh. So glad she's gone. So sad the writers took Milton down with her.

Yeah RIP Andrea and good riddance. Too bad because in the comics, she's a pretty good and kick ass character. My guess is either Maggie or Carol (or both) will now fill that role.]]> H-man The OT Tue, 02 Apr 2013 09:45:45 -0400 http://toyboxdx.com/phorum/read.php?5,224441,249457#msg-249457 Re: The Walking Dead thread. http://toyboxdx.com/phorum/read.php?5,224441,249457#msg-249457
Quote
gingaio
Killing off Andrea as a climactic end point to the season doesn't work because, as you mentioned, she's basically Dale 2.0, and it's already been done. The story doesn't pivot so much on Andrea's death. She didn't represent a last chance at peace or civilization or something like Dale did because the lines have already been crossed and because the two groups were already warring. No realization is gained from her death, other than her being truly the dumbass the writers made her out to be (seriously, that scene with Milton was grating, and I was hating the writing and directing so much more than her at that point).

I didn't see Andrea as a "Dale Clone" as much as "The Bully's Girlfriend". She loves a bad boy. She's befriended his victims. She's horrified at the bad things he does. She desperately wants to change him. She herself eventually becomes victimized by him. And then she gets eaten by a zombie that he locked in a room with her.* Which is all still fairly fucking lame. But at least she's gone now.

Questions:

Why does everyone still listen to Hershel? Is it because he's old and has one leg, or because he was keeping a barn full of zombies that eventually killed half his family and he never ever mentions it?

Did Maggie and Glenn actually kill anyone in their shooting spree?

Why did all those survivors leave the town and go to a prison that's half over-run with zombies?

What has anyone been eating?

Where do they poop?





* That scene was so hard to sit through because of how poorly it was planned and handled. She literally takes a break from trying to free herself just to chat with Zombie Come Lately. Ugh. So glad she's gone. So sad the writers took Milton down with her.]]> Gcrush The OT Mon, 01 Apr 2013 21:15:38 -0400 http://toyboxdx.com/phorum/read.php?5,224441,249450#msg-249450 Re: The Walking Dead thread. http://toyboxdx.com/phorum/read.php?5,224441,249450#msg-249450
Quote
Sanjeev
Y'know, I just *never* grew to like Samurai Champloo. I was kinda hoping for a resolution that didn't rely as much on action/violence, but more on interesting character development. Even though Cowboy Bebop's end was violent, it was more about the characters in my mind. The violence was just a vehicle.

Bebop did have a more interesting cast, and is to my mind better, but Champloo had stronger narrative momentum. I liked the improvisational, episodic quality of Bebop, but I can also appreciate Champloo for being more straightfoward, story-wise. That subplot with the blind assassin was probably the highpoint of the series for me.

Quote
Sanjeev
Kinda, yeah. See, you CAN skip the first season altogether...but then a lot of the more gut-wrenching drama of the second season is lost because you simply haven't grown to like the characters yet, y'knowmsayin? Also, quite a few recurring characters are introduced.

I just took a look at the episode guide, and I'd say you can safely skip episodes 3, 7, 8, and 11...but any more than that might screw the pooch.

Cool. Thanks for the breakdown.]]> gingaio The OT Mon, 01 Apr 2013 18:30:56 -0400 http://toyboxdx.com/phorum/read.php?5,224441,249449#msg-249449 Re: The Walking Dead thread. http://toyboxdx.com/phorum/read.php?5,224441,249449#msg-249449
Quote
Roger
Andrea's death echoed Dale's from last season. He tells everyone that they can't cross a line by killing people and then gets eaten. Andrea just wants everyone to live, and she gets et too. Sadly, Carl is the only one who has the right idea for suriving in this world: get them before they get you.

Yeah, she took up his calling after he died. I didn't hate her character as much as most people, or as much as I hate the writers for writing her poorly when her comic counterpart was so much more interesting.

Quote
Roger
His plan was supremely stupid, though. So everybody just barrels through the front entrance in broad daylight? Nobody scouts? Nobody enters through the damaged back half of the prison? And nobody in the Ricktocracy (formerly the Ricktatorship) thinks to disable their cars while they're all in the prison?

Didn't the Governor allude to being an office drone during his discussion with Rick? That could explain his lack of strategic know-how, though his getting the drop on the national guard unit suggested that he's smarter than he showed here. As for Rick's group disabling the cars, it seems like a safer move to snipe from behind cover on higher ground, the way Glenn and Maggie were doing. It might have been a bigger risk to run onto the field or wherever the cars were parked and expose themselves.

Quote
Roger
I also think it's worth saying it took guts for the producers and the network to tell a story about a child killing someone with a gun, something from the comic, and something I was wondering if we'd ever see on TV, given what's going on in our country these days.

Interesting point. They really set this up last season, with Carl egging on his father to shoot that kid that they were holding prisoner.

Quote
Roger
Overall I was satisfied with this season, much more so than the last. It could serve as a series ender. I hope we aren't left wishing that it was after Season 4 with the new show runner, and a premise that runs the risk of getting stale ("everyone will die by teeth or bullets").

I thought this episode was pretty weak as even a season ender. When you're building up to a conflict with the Big Bad, and the episode ends with him and his henchman running away, you've basically got a GI Joe episode. It's a cheat.

Killing off Andrea as a climactic end point to the season doesn't work because, as you mentioned, she's basically Dale 2.0, and it's already been done. The story doesn't pivot so much on Andrea's death. She didn't represent a last chance at peace or civilization or something like Dale did because the lines have already been crossed and because the two groups were already warring. No realization is gained from her death, other than her being truly the dumbass the writers made her out to be (seriously, that scene with Milton was grating, and I was hating the writing and directing so much more than her at that point).

Also, Lori was a more significant character, as far as her effect on the group, and she was killed off in like episode 4 or something. Really, the one death that should have closed out this season was the Governor's (or at least some kind of resolution involving him should have occurred), and the writers screwed the pooch on that one.]]> gingaio The OT Mon, 01 Apr 2013 18:26:39 -0400 http://toyboxdx.com/phorum/read.php?5,224441,249448#msg-249448 Re: The Walking Dead thread. http://toyboxdx.com/phorum/read.php?5,224441,249448#msg-249448
I was a little unsatisfied that the Governor wasn't killed but after going all Rhodes on his little army, he and his two buddies won't last long. He certainly does get punished: every last thing he cares about is taken away from him by the final scene, including the town he built.

His plan was supremely stupid, though. So everybody just barrels through the front entrance in broad daylight? Nobody scouts? Nobody enters through the damaged back half of the prison? And nobody in the Ricktocracy (formerly the Ricktatorship) thinks to disable their cars while they're all in the prison?

I also think it's worth saying it took guts for the producers and the network to tell a story about a child killing someone with a gun, something from the comic, and something I was wondering if we'd ever see on TV, given what's going on in our country these days.

Overall I was satisfied with this season, much more so than the last. It could serve as a series ender. I hope we aren't left wishing that it was after Season 4 with the new show runner, and a premise that runs the risk of getting stale ("everyone will die by teeth or bullets").]]> Roger The OT Mon, 01 Apr 2013 17:53:04 -0400 http://toyboxdx.com/phorum/read.php?5,224441,249445#msg-249445 Re: The Walking Dead thread. http://toyboxdx.com/phorum/read.php?5,224441,249445#msg-249445 had to die--Andrea--did. Thank the fuck christ.

I was kinda expecting the Governor to die too, but I'm cool with how they ended it...although it woulda been nice if Martinez or nameless-tough-black-guy blasted him instead of riding off into the sunset with him. :/

Oh, and I totally agree: Carl said "drop the gun". Instead, the dude inched closer--pointing the shotty closer and closer at Carl, with his finger still on the trigger. Um...yeah. Blast his ass.

But I was totally sold on the idea that the main characters were leaving the prison in the beginning. The attack sequence was great. Even if it was primarily just Glenn and Maggie who drove out the Woodbury "army", it just goes to show how they're ALL hardened veterans by now...while the Woodbury residents are soft.]]> Sanjeev The OT Mon, 01 Apr 2013 17:24:23 -0400 http://toyboxdx.com/phorum/read.php?5,224441,249442#msg-249442 Re: The Walking Dead thread. http://toyboxdx.com/phorum/read.php?5,224441,249442#msg-249442
At least GoT premiere was cool... zipped by a bit too fast. And the DRAGONS have GROWN.]]> H-man The OT Mon, 01 Apr 2013 17:07:04 -0400 http://toyboxdx.com/phorum/read.php?5,224441,249440#msg-249440 Re: The Walking Dead thread. http://toyboxdx.com/phorum/read.php?5,224441,249440#msg-249440
So...yeah...the real topic of this thread...

Ding-dong, the witch is dead!!]]> Sanjeev The OT Mon, 01 Apr 2013 10:24:35 -0400 http://toyboxdx.com/phorum/read.php?5,224441,249439#msg-249439 Re: The Walking Dead thread. http://toyboxdx.com/phorum/read.php?5,224441,249439#msg-249439
Quote
gingaio
But yeah, we started watching the first season of Dr. Who and our response was exactly 'meh.' Do we need to watch the first season to get the second one?

Kinda, yeah. See, you CAN skip the first season altogether...but then a lot of the more gut-wrenching drama of the second season is lost because you simply haven't grown to like the characters yet, y'knowmsayin? Also, quite a few recurring characters are introduced.

I just took a look at the episode guide, and I'd say you can safely skip episodes 3, 7, 8, and 11...but any more than that might screw the pooch.]]> Sanjeev The OT Mon, 01 Apr 2013 10:23:36 -0400 http://toyboxdx.com/phorum/read.php?5,224441,249437#msg-249437 Re: The Walking Dead thread. http://toyboxdx.com/phorum/read.php?5,224441,249437#msg-249437
Quote
Sanjeev
Now it's my turn. We just watched The Vision of Escaflowne...and she loved it. We're probably gonna do Cowboy Bebop at some point...maybe Mazinkaiser or perhaps GaoGaiGar (gotta have SOME super robots in there...kinda absurd not to given the toys)...but I don't think too much more anime after that. She wants to see all the showa Godzilla films. YES.

As for tv, we both watch the Celtics and Patriots, but not much Bruins or Sox. And that's about it, really. I think Walking Dead and Doctor Who are probably the only regular current shows I watch (I've quit Game of Thrones altogether...and I just haven't had a chance to get into Breaking Bad). As for Doctor Who, the "fuss" is pretty much dead, man--sorry...you missed it. The first season (of the new show) in 2005 was meh. The second season and pretty much anything with David Tennant (the 10th Dr.) is off the hook. The latest dude ain't bad at all as an actor, but the show's writing has taken a VERY sharp nosedive. :/

Heh. We should change the title of this thread to Shit We Can Watch with our Girlfriends.

But yeah, we started watching the first season of Dr. Who and our response was exactly 'meh.' Do we need to watch the first season to get the second one?

I actually dropped off my Samurai Champloo collection at my girlfriend's a couple of weeks ago. She liked Cowboy Bebop, and I think she'll dig this, too. I don't think she'd get the mecha stuff, though.]]> gingaio The OT Sun, 31 Mar 2013 23:00:24 -0400 http://toyboxdx.com/phorum/read.php?5,224441,249428#msg-249428 Re: The Walking Dead thread. http://toyboxdx.com/phorum/read.php?5,224441,249428#msg-249428
Big O sucked a big one. I dug the robot designs, but I'd honestly rather watch Sex and the City again than yet another "ineffable" scifi anime. Never saw Rahxephon, but I've heard it was aiight. And I definitely have considered Evangelion...'cause I actually understood/liked the original tv ending (yeah, I'm that one dude on Earth!). I'd do GaoGaiGar in a heartbeat if it weren't so long...]]> Sanjeev The OT Fri, 29 Mar 2013 16:43:57 -0400 http://toyboxdx.com/phorum/read.php?5,224441,249424#msg-249424 Re: The Walking Dead thread. http://toyboxdx.com/phorum/read.php?5,224441,249424#msg-249424
For Giant Robot shows, I would go easy.... maybe Big O, Rahxephon, or at least the first half of Evangelion...]]> H-man The OT Fri, 29 Mar 2013 12:46:51 -0400