Yamato 2199

Posted by VF5SS 
I don't think it's any different.

There have been several attempts to remake or update Yamato for a few decades now so is there any infuriation left to be had?
MattAlt (Admin)
"maybe you've outgrown the whole medium."

Guilty as charged! I'm not interested in "mediums," I'm interested in good entertainment -- whether it's a live-action film, an anime, a stage play, a concert, or whatever grabs me. Watching something BECAUSE it's anime makes about as much sense as watching something BECAUSE it's television. Either anime creators realize that or they die slowly.

... Oh, wait! They ARE!
<<There have been several attempts to remake or update Yamato for a few decades now so is there any infuriation left to be had?>>

This is the internet....I'm hoping the question is rhetorical. I think the only time the character designs ever changed were for "Space Battleship Yamato: Resurrection" (which I've never seen). Why that gets a pass? I dunno.

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[pgaijin.blogspot.com]



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 02/22/2012 05:32PM by hillsy.
VF5SS Wrote:
> I feel like if someone's entire view on anime
> these days is just waiting for the one reason not
> to check out a series then maybe you've outgrown
> the whole medium.

hillsy Wrote:
> I don't necessarily disagree with this statement,
> but think the Yamato case is different. You're
> dealing with a property that a lot of folks grew
> up with and have a lot of attachment to, so ANY
> updates or changes are going to infuriate some. I
> understand that they updated character designs to
> contemporize it but it honestly loses a lot of
> charm, to me.

MattAlt Wrote:
> "maybe you've outgrown the whole medium."
>
> Guilty as charged! I'm not interested in
> "mediums," I'm interested in good entertainment --
> whether it's a live-action film, an anime, a stage
> play, a concert, or whatever grabs me. Watching
> something BECAUSE it's anime makes about as much
> sense as watching something BECAUSE it's
> television. Either anime creators realize that or
> they die slowly.
>
> ... Oh, wait! They ARE!


Yeah, and isn't this the point? I was going to say something to that effect when I saw Veef's post. If you're distressed by the changes to the new Yamato, seek out another space opera that fills the niche for you. Maybe go back and watch Legend of Galactic Heroes, or play Mass Effect, or read some Honor Harrington, or some of Iain Banks' Culture books.

Granted, those are more grimly militaristic than Yamato, but that's just where my tastes in SF adventure run, so those are the examples I think of. If the Yamato remake is dead to you, I'm sure you can seek greener pastures *somewhere*.

-Paul Segal

"Oh, the anger is never far, never far." -SteveH
Not sure that's an assumption I'd want to make. Just because someone gripes on a bbs over changes made to a property they hold dear, doesn't mean they don't feed in multiple pastures. Or shit in them.

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[pgaijin.blogspot.com]
so the person who drew that Kodai and green guy BL image has this as their workspace image in their profile




sad crying moe Kodai staring lovingly at you as you draw handsome young men having special relationships

that's beautiful



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 02/22/2012 06:07PM by VF5SS.
Attachments:
open | download - sadcryingkodai.jpg (14.2 KB)
Looks like a Brony.

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[pgaijin.blogspot.com]
I feel so safe looking at that

You'll never leave me, will you Kodai?


unlike that damn Kircheis ;-;



why did you have to die
I'm glad you guys brought that up... as someone who's only ever gotten into anime shows tangentially through being interested in some specific element of it first (ie- mecha, sci-fi, war stories, etc), the concept of an 'anime fan' has always baffled me. Like, in America, we don't really have 'TV fans', we have people that like certain kinds of shows. The fact that they all have people talking in them is not what draws people to them, the subject matter is. I don't like 'anime' anymore than I like 'books'... I like anime about robots, and I like books about history.

In reality, it's the same problem comics face... we cling to this antiquated concept of the 'comic fan', when there are comics for every subject and reader. Some people like super hero comics, some only like artsy independently published drama stories... why would I paint the two with the same brush stroke when the only thing they have in common is liking illustrated stories?

Introducing Prometheus Rising Studio.
[prometheusrising.net]
I make 3D printed mecha action figures.
Aw....Ben doesn't want to be lumped. Maybe your interests are just too narrowed.

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[pgaijin.blogspot.com]
MattAlt (Admin)
There really isn't any more or less to the teeth-gnashing than the fact that the original Yamato was a genre-defining, epoch-making, seminal event in anime history, and the remake won't be. Ever. No matter how good it is. Which isn't a "dis," just a fact. And then there's the whole "treading on sacred ground" thing. I mean, imagine if someone tried remaking Star Wars with CG effects or something.

...Oh, wait!
MattAlt Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------

> ...Oh, wait!


Is this your new thing? I don't know if I like it. It doesn't suit you.



Anyways, I want to ask you this because I think you'll give an honest answer. As a translator, blogger, and a senior member of the "Japanese pop culture fan" community who contributes to numerous podcasts and has done a lot of work to help others who can't get the knowledge due to the language barrier or whatever do you think you have a responsibility as someone who can potentially shape the opinions of others?

I certainly know how easy it is for anyone regardless of their credentials to devote the time and effort to writing on the internet about something people are passionate about (lawl CDX), but I think there's some authority implied when someone has their name attached to important publications. I don't want to single you out on this as I feel like there's this increasingly insular contingent of older fans (what are you guys like maybe five to ten years older than me :3) like Patrick Macias, Steve, yourself, Anime World Order, Colony Drop, and others who are perhaps unknowingly shaping the discussion of the community through their words.

When it comes to shaping a community through repeated discourse or memes, I have found a certain train of thought has negatively impacted the Macross fan community (to say nothing of any online community be it books, games, etc.) to the point where only now myself and the members of the Gaijin Butai in Japan have had a chance to change the course of discussion through more thoughtful posting and through a lot effort on their parts to translate so much material that has existed for decades. Richard (aka Gubaba on MW), has taken it upon himself to translate basically every Macross related novel that exists and release it to the public. He's also joined me several times on my podcast just as Renato (Renato on MW) has done to distribute information in a way that takes advantage of current social media. Now there's certainly always going to be bias in reporting as we're only human (we pass the Turing test) but personally I've been really discouraged lately when people in positions of some trust and authority (properly earned or not) have had a vast increase in vitriol in their discourse as the industry itself is suffering.

I certainly appreciate your efforts and ability to report straight from the source, the troubles of the Japanese entertainment industry. Even if I'm a snarky late twenty-something, I do respect a lot of the "old guard" like you, Steve, Patrick, and others like the AWO crew. What I do not respect is how seniority is becoming authoritative without question. The comments about Yamato 2199 and the AWO 12 mecha questions podcast I linked on this forum have made me feel like there's some kind of selective ignorance when it comes to certain subjects we hold dear. I am certainly guilty of that, but I'm attempting to improve. Daryl Surat sometimes told me he wanted to make me a better hero, but I don't understand why more and more he and others in the same group are ignoring what they are trying to teach others. When Daryl especially is posting long responses in response to an honest discussion about Code Geass being a "mecha show" (http://collectiondx.com/blog/vf5ss/veef_show_episode_24_squidline) I'm not sure what to believe when someone I respect as a writer and podcaster is using what I see as selective reasoning and arbitrary rules to codify the kind of fiction we both enjoy greatly. And here with the Yamato 2199 character designs, all I see is pre-judgment of something purely based on gut feelings from looking at character designs and descriptions. Now matter how much myself, Ben, or Paul attempt to point out these constant trends or similarities between old and new shows, there's a kind of "father knows best" vibe coming off the discussion I am seeing from old school Yamato fans.

Now I fully understand anime is not the end all of entertainment. I may read like an angry Ameritaku(TM) but I think I have some sense of balance in what media I consume. Now you have admitted to having outgrown anime but you do still have a vested interest in it, correct? I know it occupies many articles on your blog and other places that you've contributed to. I guess what I am trying to say in the end is that I feel like so much of what is being said by the older community is that the industry and the products it produces have changed to the point beyond their level of interest yet they feel the need to comment and shape the discourse of what others are seeing and observing about what is happening and has been happening for decades prior. If like you said, you are not defined by being a fan of the medium because the entertainment itself is more important regardless of how its told then why comment on how the medium has changed? I have no idea what to think from older fans who scream for change to the industry or are seemingly advocating that it be left to burn to the ground so a new era can be forged through destruction just like what the creepy scientist guy in Macross Zero wanted. Gen Fudo taught me that sometimes we have to let ourselves fall completely before picking ourselves up but I don't know if people’s livelihood can survive that.

For myself, I am known as a lover of many controversial topics such as Macross itself and the products created by Yamato Toys. Even branded as a lover, I tried to acknowledge their shortcomings as I truly believed in their product. With the current level of excellence to the Valkyries they produced, I felt like the common failings of their previous toys needed to be rectified. Sanjeev helped me develop a way to replace parts for the most beloved VF-1 Valkyrie line because I truly believe these are the definitive rendition of the VF-1 and that people should enjoy them once again. I am not yet a person of great significance in the community, but I hope to prepare myself for any responsibility that may arise. It is my belief that positive discussion amongst those with a voice is the best way to create a thriving community. This dismissive nature of people with seniority towards the younger generation in addition to what I perceive as promoting harmful discourse is not something I wish to be a part of. All I am asking is do you believe one should shape a world they no longer have any stake in?
Prometheum5 Wrote:
> the concept of an 'anime fan' has always baffled me.
> Like, in America, we don't really have 'TV fans', we
> have people that like certain kinds of shows. The
> fact that they all have people talking in them is
> not what draws people to them, the subject matter is.

> In reality, it's the same problem comics face...
> we cling to this antiquated concept of the 'comic
> fan', when there are comics for every subject and
> reader.

It even goes for sports. I'm sure we all know people whose identity is as a sports fan - unlike the average dude with a favorite sport and a preference for professional or college-level competition, their all-encompassing obsession shuttles from baseball to basketball to football as the seasons pass.

And yet, even that guy probably thinks soccer is "for fags".

This is a truly brilliant analogy for the identity of the "anime fan" and I expect to be lauded for it.

:3

-Paul Segal

"Oh, the anger is never far, never far." -SteveH
MattAlt Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> There really isn't any more or less to the
> teeth-gnashing than the fact that the original
> Yamato was a genre-defining, epoch-making, seminal
> event in anime history, and the remake won't be.
> Ever. No matter how good it is. Which isn't a
> "dis," just a fact. And then there's the whole
> "treading on sacred ground" thing. I mean, imagine
> if someone tried remaking Star Wars with CG
> effects or something.


Alright this is what I mean by dismissive. Even if it's good it can't replace the original Yamato. Why does that matter? I know we as nerds have an immense distrust of remakes and such thanks to George Lucas and Hollywood, but if the new Yamato can have an impact on people by capturing the same spirit as the original does it matter what the fact of history says?

Nishizaki spent most of his life trying to recreate the magic. I know this is not wholly done out of love for the material, but if Izubuchi and company can bring some kind of enthusiasm to the product aren't we all better for it? I feel like you're using the facts as a way to somehow say this is inferior. Everything I see from old school fans is discouraging me and I hope it doesn't discourage others.

It's like Colony Drop's article about Redline in where the author is clearly talking about the movie in how it recapture the magic from HIS YOUTH and not how it may affect new fans.

If you didn't get into this the right way, why bother.
The single biggest challenge to contemporizing any beloved property, whether it be Yamato, Mazinger, Transformers, Galactica, Batman, Spiderman, Superman, etc. is to recognize and show respect for the "sacred center" or core of what made the property endearing in the first place.

I had the Yamato III series on in the background while working out tonight, as I have for the past few weeks. Ugh...it's like watching paint dry. It completely sucked the mojo out of the series, while canibalizing the plot points from the prior two series. Whyyyy? Beautiful animation...but WHYYYYY!!!???? What a waste.

The only point to financing something like this new property is that they expect, even if they lose the nostalgic fan base, to interest kids of today with this production. The new Thundercats...the producers nailed the balance of a new show that hits the right notes for us nostalgoids and kids alike. Voltron Farce...? That's the unfortunate alternate end of the spectrum. Here's to hoping for the former.
I think some are intentionally misinterpreting what I'm saying and deriving the completely wrong message, and trying to parse my comments one word at a time instead of even trying to take, again, history and context into account.

Not surprising, there are those who seem to delight in the snark because it makes them feel important. Or something.

So, let me make it as simple as possible, OK?

1. Yamato 2199 is probably going to be the best f'ing anime of the year. It makes me scream in outrage there won't be an American release.

2. Calling MOE on the new girls doesn't mean they won't be elevated above stereotype. I stand by all my comments if anyone can be bothered to read them and actually pay attention to what I'm saying.

And yes, I know what MOE is, both the supposed definition and the actual real-world meaning.

3. My CONCERN is that by grabbing the easy touchpoint MOE visual stereotypes (as opposed to functional story stereotypes) there is a cold, calculating attempt to tap a market (or would that be fap a market?) that just isn't gonna take to the story. *Some* might, sure. But if the producers expect huge audience growth because they put some antenna bangs into Yamato, they're going to be disappointed.

4. I harp on the nurse's costume because it just doesn't fit the overall design sense and historical context, which by all the other indications the producers are keen to maintain, All they needed was to add Anna Miller style puffy shoulders, ya know?

5. I am not responsible for what fans do, so throwing the fujoshi lusting for Kodai/Shima kissyface into the mix is intentional mis-direction. And yes, I'm well aware of how Yuki has been handled (he he he, I guess I'm supposed to say) over the years. Again, not what I'm discussing.

6. Can Yamato 2199 capture lightning in the bottle again? Probably not. Did we need a remake? I don't think so but many feel the thing keeping people away from Yamato is "It looks OOOOOOLLLDD" so maybe this IS needed, re-presented for a new generation and all that.

But maybe it can re-ignite passion in anime again. Yamato pretty much created the entire anime business way back when (art books, soundtracks, models sold, the entire concept of marketing a show long after the show had gone off the air, making movies based on the TV series all of that, all of it only existed in minor ways pre-Yamato. )

I am excited by this. I have great hope for it. Everything is lining up to be RIGHT just like 1992 when Giant Robo and Tekkaman Blade came out. It's not making the mistakes Tatsunoko made with the Gatchaman OAV. It's not making the mistakes Sunrise made with 08th MSteam. It's not making the mistakes Nishizaki made with Yamato 2520.

OK, I think that's fairly clear.
MattAlt (Admin)
>>Do you think you have a responsibility as someone who can potentially shape the opinions of others?

I am honored and a little touched that you think I hold such sway over the opinions of others. But it isn't for me to say. I'm just a guy who likes what he likes and writes what he writes. I lay no claim to being a critic or a kingmaker.

I'm officially turning off the snark-o-meter for the duration of this post because I can tell how passionate you feel about this topic.

I think one of the big frictions here, shall we call it, is that anime and toys aren't my only window into Japan. They are but facets of a my experience here. My life is about so much more than that now. I like Japanese food, history, whiskey, beer, hiking in the mountains, snorkeling the shorelines, hunting for yokai, watching giant monster movies. And yeah, anime, if it's good. I have a short list of recent favorites that I don't exactly make public because, well, they're my favorites and that's my opinion. And I don't find opinions particularly compelling unless they're backed up by facts or research or something objective. Telling the world I love Tekkon Kinkreet or Redline or the shorts screened at the Ghibli museum is about as thrilling as telling the world I love the color green or the taste of natto.

So let's take this step by step, in a non-opinioated way. No, the new remake will never replace the old Yamato. It can't. Why? It will never be the show I saw when I was 11. Or Hideaki Anno when he was... uh... however old he was when he saw it. Again, that isn't a bad thing. It's a time-space thing. There's no way a direct-to-video BluRay can ever hope to capture that "lightning in a bottle," as Steve put it.

If you haven't spent a lot of time with Japanese fans and/or anime creators one on one, it can be difficult to grasp just how much of an impact that series had on Japan in the late Seventies. It was absolutely huge. It was BIGGER than Star Wars in its way. Every single mecha golden-ager cites it as their prime influence. And "normal" people saw it too. It was a breakthrough hit.

And that's my biggest issue with the anime world today. How insular it has become. Anime used to be for EVERYONE! Now it's for the handful of diehards who still care, and there's no one to blame but the animation studios themselves. There hasn't been a breakthrough, mainstream hit that has swept the nation for close to two decades. (The last would be Evangelion, way back in '95.) Even the Ghibli hits are just box-office hits - they aren't sensations, they don't "change the dialog," so to speak. It's fine that every anime isn't a sensation. I love weird, offbeat, even degenerate stuff as much as the next guy. Not every film can be a mainstream sensation. But when NO anime is EVER a mainstream sensation, something's wrong.

The anime industry is sick. I don't mean that from a moral standpoint. I mean it from a sustainability standpoint. I really and truly wish I didn't feel this way. But it is backed up by a lot of facts and figures, and bolstered by things I hear from friends in the industry itself.

I love anime. It brought me here to Tokyo, where animation is born and created, often by people I know. And man, do I hope I'm wrong about the way things are going. I love great anime like I love great ukiyo-e... another beautifully, uniquely Japanese medium of expression that died a quiet death, a century ago.

I don't blame you for thinking I don't have a stake in this. I tend not to talk about my "real" work very much both because I don't want to spend my free time talking about work and because non-disclosure agreements prevent me from saying much of real substance. But my entire career and life are built around Japanese pop culture. I have more to lose from an anime industry implosion than you might think.

End of sermon. Snark-o-meter charged and back online. Which brings us to...

>>Is this your new thing? I don't know if I like it. It doesn't suit you.

A guy who can't find the period key half the time is lecturing me on style?
Another point. The producers wanted this on TV, but as far as I know, to this date, nobody bit. Let me restate that. A modern remake of a classic show, with cutting edge animation, riding on the tail of the biggest live action SF movie hit in recent memory, and NO TV STATION THOUGHT IT WORTH TAKING ON.

I take that to mean they wanted money for a timeslot.

So, the current plan, which I have to admit is interesting. 26 episode series released as a series of movies, the hammering out the home video right away. First movie is the first two episodes and it will be available at the theaters on DVD/BD at the same time. next movie is a couple months later, using the next 4 episodes and so on. THEN, later, when the show is finished maybe a TV airing.

It's a very different strategy and just may create a new marketing paradigm. Get right out there, get the money from paying customers and get them again with the home video. There may well be different cuts released later.

Anno was supposed to direct the first episode but he couldn't do it. He did storyboard the opening titles as I understand it.

Akira Miyagawa has taken up the tough challenge of following in his father's footsteps. I wasn't sure about this choice until I heard the Shin Mazinger score and now I feel he's going to do just fine.

It's a big risk. They can't re-capture that lightning, but maybe, maybe they can catch different lightning.

All I know is I'm deeply, deeply sad I don't see a Tokuma Shoten Roman Album for Yamato: Resurrection and likely won't see one for Yamato 2199.
That's a bummer about the anime industry. But I haven't watched much since Eva was released. That almost sounds like the U.S. comic book industry. I hope they both can be turned around.

Starblazers is still one of the coolest shows I've ever seen but it is pretty old looking. I think it's cool that they're making an new updated version. I'll probably like it the way I do the live action one. It's different from the one I love but has some cool new things to add.


And FWIW more girls on the ship sounds cool to me. And the outfits seem fine. Ponytails are cute, I don't see the problem there. I'm more interested the design of the Yamato and other ships. I'm hoping this means some cool new yamato toys maybe.
MattAlt (Admin)
"I take that to mean they wanted money for a timeslot."

No need to guess there. Traditionally a huge chunk of an TV anime production budget goes to paying for the timeslot. In this example, they take 20,000,000 yen out of the 50,000,000 yen paid by the sponsor -- for each episode. The studio has to animate at a loss and make up the difference with DVD sales. It's antiquated and backasswards and good for the Yamato 2199 production committee for trying something new.
It would be disingenuous to contemporize Yamato without acknowledging that women play a much greater role in most professional arenas, including the military, since the original early 70's version.

Either it's going to be good, or it'll get blasted right out of the gate. I'm just torn by the idea of the potential a grand, imaginative and tactful revisioning of a property I hold great affection can yield, such as Giant Robo did; and by the abject dearth of new original ideas making it to the medium.

I hold no particular ill will towards the industry, but am beleaguered by the vast array of failures I have given a chance over the years without reward.
Sanjeev (Admin)
Oh lord. All this tripping...and over what? A couple female side characters look extra young/cute/innocent...but no more so than Yuki and virtually ever other female in Yamato looked like a damn doll. Go back and read SteveH's #3 and replace "MOE" with "Barbie", and "antennae bangs" with "rail-thin Barbie doll", and you've pretty much nailed the original Yamato.

I mean, to all the anti-moe old-timers out there (and believe me, it's tough to get more anti-moe than me!): is anyone SERIOUSLY expecting the show to suck *specifically* because of these few female characters? I don't even remember seeing any of them show up for more than a nanosecond in the trailer. I can't imagine episode after episode of slice-of-life nonsense meant to endear these couple random girls to the viewer...while Earth is in peril in the background. Who knows...maybe I'll be proven wrong, and this show WILL turn out to be a moe-tastic disaster...but I think the point is that, given the information we have right now, there's no need to tear out your hair and pine for the days when anime didn't come to your house and rape your sister.

[Oh, and by the way, Macross Frontier wasn't particularly ground-breaking, but I thought it was an enjoyable little ditty...despite the inclusion of some moe-ish elements. And like Adam said, there IS such a thing as a good remake: Thundercats, Giant Robot...]

...

Anyway, regarding what Andrew said in his wall of text, well, he has a point. In fact, he's been doing that a lot lately.

He's called me out on more than a couple occasions (online and in person) for taking this weird paternalistic attitude towards fandoms we see as somehow becoming corrupt through pandering-for-profit. I mean, I feel this all the time with designer vinyl. My personal opinion is that both anime and designer vinyl are changing for the worse. They're changing in ways that are alienating older fans--fans who feel at least some form of entitlement because they've been around for so long. They supported the shit from the get go. They were there when such-and-such happened. I get it.

But shit happens. Shit changes. Maybe is IS natural for media to become more and more narrow (pandering) as they mature. The goal is profit--and that never changed--so is this really "corruption"? Maybe the industry isn't sick, Matt. Maybe such media eating themselves is an inevitability. I mean, we're seeing this with designer vinyl (also in Japan), hip hop music (in the US), superhero comic (in the US), like Ted mentioned, and probably a bunch of different maturing media we haven't considered yet.

So anyway, it's one thing to analyze WHY shit's changing, and scrutinize ever little psycho-social detail. But it's another thing to get snarky about it. Becoming negative about it *can* be a therapeutic...but that has its limits. Eventually, it becomes viral (and not in the good youtube sense), and that negativity can spread and affect others. I don't have any solutions for us old-timers, but I've found the best answer for me was just walking away. I barely engage with skullbrain anymore. Designer vinyl is no longer for *me*...so I try to leave that shit alone. Hell, I've never been the anime fan most of y'all are--I'm a scifi geek...so when there were fewer and fewer hard scifi anime series being made, it was simple for me to walk away. No big.

Maybe that's a cop-out answer. I don't know. It seems to be working for me though. But it doesn't answer Andrew's question ("All I am asking is do you believe one should shape a world they no longer have any stake in?"). But allow me to ask another question: what if it's not about shaping that world or not...what if it's about simply not wanting to give up your stake in it? [I think this is what you're saying, Matt: you're deeply invested in Japanese pop culture, so walking away isn't a viable option for you.] I mean, like I said, when designer vinyl started to blow billy goats, I took my Bullmarks and went home...but it wasn't easy. Or quick. There was a lot of bitching. And I bitch LOUD. Well, what if my love for the medium was just TOO strong to walk away from? What then? How would I figure out how to stick around? How would I figure out how to stay positive?

It's a tough one...
Sanjeev Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
>
> But shit happens. Shit changes. Maybe is IS
> natural for media to become more and more narrow
> (pandering) as they mature. The goal is
> profit--and that never changed--so is this really
> "corruption"? Maybe the industry isn't sick, Matt.
> Maybe such media eating themselves is an
> inevitability. I mean, we're seeing this with
> designer vinyl (also in Japan), hip hop music (in
> the US), superhero comic (in the US), like Ted
> mentioned, and probably a bunch of different
> maturing media we haven't considered yet.

Not meaning to be digressive, but I have long thought that this is exactly what has happened to professional baseball...I mean if you go to a game you the only people there are severe baseball nerds (of which I a guilty), folk there just to get drunk, and people at a baseball game because it is a fine summer evening and that is what you are supposed to do right...Basically, hard core fans and people there for the experience...There really isn't a casual following for the sport anymore.

Anyway....back to Yamato 2199...


SteveH Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
>
> So, the current plan, which I have to admit is interesting. 26 episode series > released as a series of movies, the hammering out the home video right away. First > movie is the first two episodes and it will be available at the theaters on DVD/BD > at the same time. next movie is a couple months later, using the next 4 episodes and > so on. THEN, later, when the show is finished maybe a TV airing.

I am sure I am not the only person who would love it if I could grab the BD of a movie on the way out of the theater. I'm the type that wants to watch something I like several times in a row and I'm sure that the motion picture companies want me to pay theater pricing for the privilege, but that ain't going to happen. Selling me a BD in the lobby of a movie I liked enough to go to the freaking theater for in the first place is a slam dunk. Hell, go one step further and add the price to my ticket and put a digital download code on the ticketstub stub so that I can start the download from my iPhone and it can be waiting and cued up for me when I get home....
Uh-oh, just read that the barrel of the wave motion cannon is now in the shape of a heart and shoots colorful blasts of space-laser-flowers.

Who's being alarmist now???
I have to ask, why does it matter what audience the show is intended for? Why do their personal lives and motives for watching a show have to be analyzed?

This is what I hate about the western fandom regarding anime. This sort of need for introspectiveness in everything. They can't just watch things with enjoyment and not worry about who else is watching.

--------------------------------------------------------------

I asked if I have "Time For L-Gaim" but I got "No Reply From The Wind".
I'm sure most here couldn't care less people's motives for WATCHING a show. What's being questioned is the motives for CREATING a show. In that case, it matters greatly who it's intended for....a niche audience or a wider audience.

---------------------------------
[pgaijin.blogspot.com]
>What's being questioned is the motives for CREATING a show

That's easy. Because most in the anime industry ARE themselves otaku.

--------------------------------------------------------------

I asked if I have "Time For L-Gaim" but I got "No Reply From The Wind".
Sanjeev (Admin)
fel, I think I get what you're saying about baseball. Thing is, I'm not THAT big of a MLB fan...so I can't comment that intelligently about it. The NFL, on the other hand, shows us what the profit mandate can really do to a game. Because casual fans aren't as interested in the intricacies of the sport, the rules are being tailored more and more to provide for high scoring games...because that's what the casual yahoo wants to see (read: is willing to pay for).

So I guess it's not the same as becoming more and more insular and inbred, like comics, hip hop, or anime, but it's another effect of capitalism.

OUR problem is that we see these things as arts or entertainment...when they're really just institutions for making profit.
This may also be a function of the way the Internet has splintered pop culture and possibly media as a whole. There are far less breakthrough mainstream hits PERIOD, because everyone has access to small niche things in a way they never could.

Let's use robots as an example. There were no sites like ToyboxDX in the '80s and no way to be exposed to the greater palette of Japanese robots in general unless your dad got stationed in Okinawa or something. You got Voltron, you got Transformers, maybe you got Robotech, and that was it. Now you can get all the robot stuff you want, and more importantly, you can watch EXCLUSIVELY robots if you want. In the '80s, maybe you watched GI Joe, He-Man, and Ninja Turtles and enjoyed it when a robot showed up.

The same is true outside of pop culture, too, like how people who dig sexual practices that would be considered bizarre by the average person all get together and they just focus on that. Remember how everyone watched M*A*S*H in the '70s and '80s or how everyone watched Seinfeld in the '90s? That will never happen again unless there's some media apocalypse. There's too many choices and it's not just the Internet. It's cable TV, it's video games. It seems to me like various types of media or genres of storytelling are selecting a particular niche to specialize in and focusing on that to the exclusion of pretty much everything else.

The problem is maybe this causes some inbreeding, y'know? But I feel this is a much wider trend than anime or Japanese pop culture.

-Ginrai
Golden Gate Riot on dead trees at: [www.destroyallcomics.com]



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 02/23/2012 03:50PM by Ginrai.
Sanjeev (Admin)
Ginrai Wrote:
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> ...But I feel this is a much wider trend than
> anime or Japanese pop culture.

Agreed.

This seems to have the effect of decentralizing media outlets (disempowering the media giants). On paper, this seems like a good thing. But on the other hand, the primary goal is still profit...and while smaller outlets can compete for the attention of narrower and narrower market segments, their mandate is STILL to exploit those same segments in order to stay profitable and thus outlast their competition. They continue to "pander" and pump out the same tripe over and over again. And they'll still eventually eat themselves...
I feel like this is not a sustainable business model and will implode before long, much as the American comic book industry is doing, so I'm not too worried about that.

-Ginrai
Golden Gate Riot on dead trees at: [www.destroyallcomics.com]
MattAlt Wrote:
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> These look a little too much like they represent
> the current CONSENSUS on what young guys imagine
> their ideal women to be: ditzy, klutzy, underage,
> innocent, un-frightening. In other words, just the
> kind of gal Japan's current crop of young shut-ins
> loves to fantasize about taking care of (no
> hanky-panky, of course. Perish the thought.)
>

In other words, Macross, 1982.

(catching up on backlog of thread...will be a while, lol)
>They continue to "pander" and pump out the same tripe over and over again. And >they'll still eventually eat themselves...

There's that magic word again, pander.

ALL entertainment is pandering to some extent. They're not pandering to you is all.

--------------------------------------------------------------

I asked if I have "Time For L-Gaim" but I got "No Reply From The Wind".
MattAlt (Admin)
Amusingly, I went out for drinks with some industry pals last night and when I mentioned this discussion Mr. H_____ told me to shut the fuck up until I see the show.
MattAlt Wrote:
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> Amusingly, I went out for drinks with some
> industry pals last night and when I mentioned this
> discussion Mr. H_____ told me to shut the fuck up
> until I see the show.

Might I respectfully suggest he in turn should shut the fuck up? If we wait until we see the show it's too late, it's done, it's full-on "It can't be helped!!" time.

Man, I don't get how people have jumped to incorrect conclusions. Just because I cry MOE doesn't mean I think the project is doomed. I simply regret they felt need to use that as part of the 'modernization' process. I trust the staff, mostly. Gotta keep your eye on Yuuki, he'll start putting pointy noses on people. :)

Given that the edict was "scrub the Matsumoto out", they do seem to still make it work. I really don't know how they could even begin to enforce that edict given that Matsumoto's work went to every level (except when Studio Nue ghosted his mecha shhhhhh, secret), I guess the scrubbing is just specific to visual, not underlying design. I guess the cleanup work of Yas and Tomino and a couple other guys doesn't count.
After looking at the website and the character designs, this show is doomed, DOOOOOMED I tell ya! And not because of the female designs, but because Tokugawa ain't fat no more!
hillsy Wrote:
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>
> I don't necessarily disagree with this statement,
> but think the Yamato case is different. You're
> dealing with a property that a lot of folks grew
> up with and have a lot of attachment to, so ANY
> updates or changes are going to infuriate some. I
> understand that they updated character designs to
> contemporize it but it honestly loses a lot of
> charm, to me.

From what I've seen in the trailer, it's nowhere near how terminally awful Dancouga Nova was compared to the original Dancouga. That one basically did the thing people are accusing the new Yamato of: Replace main cast by fanservicy stereotypical moeblobs, replace pretty good plot by cliche-rich plot lacking interesting villains, surf on the popularity of the vintage series by having a mech that looks vaguely like the original while lacking any of the redeeming qualities that made the original original.
Yeah. Starblazers was believable because they had a crew of adults. Some of them were young, but not unlike you have in the Navy today. Dancouga Nova has a bunch of little kids. Eva does the same thing. They have some excuse to put little kids in charge of flying these huge deadly machines. And that results in very immature relationships and plots.

It looks like the new yamato is sticking with adults and hopefully they'll get a more mature theme and plot going.
SteveH Wrote:
> riding on the tail of the biggest live action SF
> movie hit in recent memory

Avatar?!

-Paul Segal

"Oh, the anger is never far, never far." -SteveH
microbry Wrote:
> MattAlt Wrote:
> > These look a little too much like they represent
> > the current CONSENSUS on what young guys imagine
> > their ideal women to be: ditzy, klutzy, underage,
> > innocent, un-frightening.
>
> In other words, Macross, 1982.

wait wait hold on, what about Misa and Claudia and Millia??

-Paul Segal

"Oh, the anger is never far, never far." -SteveH
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