Probably had a fast one pulled on me
Posted by fujikuro
| January 20, 2012 12:24AM |
I was selling a number of items in December due to some unexpected medical bills. Some of the items I sold included a few G1 Transformers. A buyer from China purchased four of these, and I shipped them out within three days. I now have a Paypal dispute saying that the items never arrived. Now, I have kept my receipt and customs slip for the shipment. Unfortunately, it was not shipped with tracking info. I know, my big mistake. I have responded with photographic proof of the shipment, and included info from USPS at least tracing the shipment to Chicago.
I guess what I'm asking for those of you who have run into these issues... firstly it is not possible that items shipped to China could still be on their way? Secondly, with the above sort of proof, what's your opinion on how Paypal might respond?
More serious than thou
I guess what I'm asking for those of you who have run into these issues... firstly it is not possible that items shipped to China could still be on their way? Secondly, with the above sort of proof, what's your opinion on how Paypal might respond?
More serious than thou
| January 20, 2012 06:45AM |
I had a comparable issue with a Japanese/Popy issue Voltes DX set I sent to Hong Kong about six years ago. I didn't use EMS, thus when the buyer, within a very short period of time might I add, made his claim of non-receipt of goods, I got worried.
I went to the post office and filed a claim on the insurance, but they told me that the item had been delivered. The long and the short of it back then when I spoke to the Paypal rep who pretty much told me that without trackable delivery confirmation, I was toast. I sent e-mails pleading with the guy not to do this, sharing that the post office had confirmed his receipt of the item...he appeared unmoved by this information.
Astonishingly...and I mean astonishingly, the day his claim would have paid him the dough (about a grand) without any further action on his part, he withdrew the claim. Lesson learned, begging helps!
You should file the claim for the insurance, even if it wasn't trackable shipping, as your first step. If they confirm delivery, send proof to this guy, and a little begging on the side may not hurt. I wish you all the luck in the world with this one dude.
Adam
Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 01/20/2012 09:23AM by Supersentai.
I went to the post office and filed a claim on the insurance, but they told me that the item had been delivered. The long and the short of it back then when I spoke to the Paypal rep who pretty much told me that without trackable delivery confirmation, I was toast. I sent e-mails pleading with the guy not to do this, sharing that the post office had confirmed his receipt of the item...he appeared unmoved by this information.
Astonishingly...and I mean astonishingly, the day his claim would have paid him the dough (about a grand) without any further action on his part, he withdrew the claim. Lesson learned, begging helps!
You should file the claim for the insurance, even if it wasn't trackable shipping, as your first step. If they confirm delivery, send proof to this guy, and a little begging on the side may not hurt. I wish you all the luck in the world with this one dude.
Adam
Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 01/20/2012 09:23AM by Supersentai.
| January 20, 2012 03:03PM |
I have bidders outside of the U.S. constantly asking me to ship via first-class mail. I never do it--even though lately, it's those bidders who make the highest bids--because of things like this. Hope it works out, Matt; international packages can take a long time, so maybe it'll arrive. But as Adam mentioned, without tracking info, if the buyer insists on it being lost, the seller's likely going to be held responsible.
| January 20, 2012 05:07PM |
The thing that galls me is that I can track the package at least as far as Chicago. The USPS shows that item was in their possession, so at that point it's beyond my ability to deal with the issue. The likelihood is that I am being swindled, but there is a slim chance that the buyer had to file the claim when they did due to Paypal regulations (waited a little over a month).
More serious than thou
More serious than thou
|
Sanjeev (Admin)
|
January 20, 2012 05:44PM |
| January 20, 2012 06:06PM |
| January 20, 2012 11:24PM |
To my understanding, EMS is the ONLY way to ship Internationally that Ebay accepts as proof of such shipments incontrovertibly reaching their destination. I would guess this is likely due to the relative ease and accessibility of proof that shows the item did arrive (on-line check). Not sure any other international method can demonstrate with the same absolute certainty that the intended party is in receipt of the parcel.
As far as Priority International, I think I tried using that with the Voltes...and I already told you how well that worked out.
What buggers me is that I can file a claim for an insured parcel which the other party claims wasn't received via Ebay, and I'll get squat because the package was actually delivered. But if I show Ebay that the USPS denies my claim for insurance because they have enough proof that the parcel had reached its destination, they could care less.
I feel for you man, and can only hope this turns out okay in the end.
Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 01/21/2012 11:07AM by Supersentai.
As far as Priority International, I think I tried using that with the Voltes...and I already told you how well that worked out.
What buggers me is that I can file a claim for an insured parcel which the other party claims wasn't received via Ebay, and I'll get squat because the package was actually delivered. But if I show Ebay that the USPS denies my claim for insurance because they have enough proof that the parcel had reached its destination, they could care less.
I feel for you man, and can only hope this turns out okay in the end.
Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 01/21/2012 11:07AM by Supersentai.
| January 21, 2012 03:54AM |
You may be right, and certainly EMS is the safest way in the end...but my understanding, based on what I've read over the years, was that if the package is valued at $200 and under, then a signature is not required for proof of delivery (i.e., tracking via Priority Mail International would be okay).
However, if a package is valued at over $200, eBay will require a signature upon delivery as proof of delivery, and because EMS is the only service that requires (and allows for) the recipient's signature, that's the only shipping method accepted for such items.
Your Voltes, I'm assuming, was well over $200 in value, which is why it needed to be shipped with a signature service (EMS).
Anyway, I'm not 100% sure myself, but I thought that was how it was.
Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 01/21/2012 03:55AM by gingaio.
However, if a package is valued at over $200, eBay will require a signature upon delivery as proof of delivery, and because EMS is the only service that requires (and allows for) the recipient's signature, that's the only shipping method accepted for such items.
Your Voltes, I'm assuming, was well over $200 in value, which is why it needed to be shipped with a signature service (EMS).
Anyway, I'm not 100% sure myself, but I thought that was how it was.
Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 01/21/2012 03:55AM by gingaio.
| January 21, 2012 08:30AM |
Well, certainly at this point I'm never going to be a "nice guy" again with any overseas buyers. It's EMS or nothing. I'm pretty sure this won't be ruled in my favor at all unfortunately. And this would be with me having more than 350 feedback on Ebay with never a complaint. Even THIS person hasn't posted negative feedback. In fact, they're no longer listed as a registered user - hopefully that helps me in some manner.
More serious than thou
More serious than thou
| January 22, 2012 09:17AM |
Meh. You're gonna lose buyers with that policy. We Europeans tend to be hit with insanely high customs fees for anything shipped by EMS. Technically, registered Priority Mail (that's Air Mail, large packet rate, not small packet) is trackable to most places, although not always online.
The buyer not being a registered user is going to play in your favour, normally.
The buyer not being a registered user is going to play in your favour, normally.
| January 22, 2012 07:20PM |
thomas Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Meh. You're gonna lose buyers with that policy. We
> Europeans tend to be hit with insanely high
> customs fees for anything shipped by EMS.
> Technically, registered Priority Mail (that's Air
> Mail, large packet rate, not small packet) is
> trackable to most places, although not always
> online.
>
> The buyer not being a registered user is going to
> play in your favour, normally.
We'll see. I've also given the customs number to them in the claim thread. I've asked them to go look with their post office to see if the item ever made it to the country. I would guess that they won't do it at all, but they also have not responded at all to any of my posts in it. I would hope that that would count in my favor as well - that I gave them information to help themselves and they haven't availed themselves of it. Now, if they write back and say that their postal service never got the package, then that's a different story. I still have to treat it in the thread as if I'm trusting that they aren't trying to swindle me. Though the likelihood is that they are.
More serious than thou
-------------------------------------------------------
> Meh. You're gonna lose buyers with that policy. We
> Europeans tend to be hit with insanely high
> customs fees for anything shipped by EMS.
> Technically, registered Priority Mail (that's Air
> Mail, large packet rate, not small packet) is
> trackable to most places, although not always
> online.
>
> The buyer not being a registered user is going to
> play in your favour, normally.
We'll see. I've also given the customs number to them in the claim thread. I've asked them to go look with their post office to see if the item ever made it to the country. I would guess that they won't do it at all, but they also have not responded at all to any of my posts in it. I would hope that that would count in my favor as well - that I gave them information to help themselves and they haven't availed themselves of it. Now, if they write back and say that their postal service never got the package, then that's a different story. I still have to treat it in the thread as if I'm trusting that they aren't trying to swindle me. Though the likelihood is that they are.
More serious than thou
| January 22, 2012 08:20PM |
thomas Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Meh. You're gonna lose buyers with that policy. We
> Europeans tend to be hit with insanely high
> customs fees for anything shipped by EMS.
> Technically, registered Priority Mail (that's Air
> Mail, large packet rate, not small packet) is
> trackable to most places, although not always
> online.
I have all of the sympathy in the world for what you guys go through in Europe...but I've run in to WAY too many bidders/buyers who insist on laying out the terms of the shipment of items AFTER the auction is over.
Please list this $300 item as a "gift" worth $10.00...ugh! To be honest, I've actually done this for a few repeat buyers who I know take a bite in the butt through customs charges (which are just insane in my opinion!), but if an item is lost or destroyed, can you really "trust" someone to not file a claim?
I've cleared out the majority of my collection, but if I were still selling like I was, it'd still be EMS baby...no doubt. Almost cheaper for a European collector to hit Botcon or something over here and bring chogokin back in thier carry-on than buying on Ebay.
-------------------------------------------------------
> Meh. You're gonna lose buyers with that policy. We
> Europeans tend to be hit with insanely high
> customs fees for anything shipped by EMS.
> Technically, registered Priority Mail (that's Air
> Mail, large packet rate, not small packet) is
> trackable to most places, although not always
> online.
I have all of the sympathy in the world for what you guys go through in Europe...but I've run in to WAY too many bidders/buyers who insist on laying out the terms of the shipment of items AFTER the auction is over.
Please list this $300 item as a "gift" worth $10.00...ugh! To be honest, I've actually done this for a few repeat buyers who I know take a bite in the butt through customs charges (which are just insane in my opinion!), but if an item is lost or destroyed, can you really "trust" someone to not file a claim?
I've cleared out the majority of my collection, but if I were still selling like I was, it'd still be EMS baby...no doubt. Almost cheaper for a European collector to hit Botcon or something over here and bring chogokin back in thier carry-on than buying on Ebay.
| January 23, 2012 02:02AM |
..if you forget the plane tickets. ;)
It goes like this:
Registered Air Mail = 12.50 Euro customs fee + 20% of value
EMS = anything from 40 to at least 75 Euro customs fee + clueless people who apparently can't calculate 20-25% of the value and manage to double it or ask you for the value that's written on the box and invoice in a letter with a due date that is usually past by the time you get the letter. And they don't understand what the "E" in EMS stands for (when Priority mail takes 2-3 weeks less than EMS...). It's like the more expensive the service, the less the monkeys running it can think.
It goes like this:
Registered Air Mail = 12.50 Euro customs fee + 20% of value
EMS = anything from 40 to at least 75 Euro customs fee + clueless people who apparently can't calculate 20-25% of the value and manage to double it or ask you for the value that's written on the box and invoice in a letter with a due date that is usually past by the time you get the letter. And they don't understand what the "E" in EMS stands for (when Priority mail takes 2-3 weeks less than EMS...). It's like the more expensive the service, the less the monkeys running it can think.
| January 23, 2012 11:00PM |
thomas Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> ..if you forget the plane tickets. ;)
>
> It goes like this:
>
> Registered Air Mail = 12.50 Euro customs fee + 20%
> of value
>
> EMS = anything from 40 to at least 75 Euro customs
> fee + clueless people who apparently can't
> calculate 20-25% of the value and manage to double
> it or ask you for the value that's written on the
> box and invoice in a letter with a due date that
> is usually past by the time you get the letter.
> And they don't understand what the "E" in EMS
> stands for (when Priority mail takes 2-3 weeks
> less than EMS...). It's like the more expensive
> the service, the less the monkeys running it can
> think.
All I can say about this is, if there's even a possibility that a buyer will pull what this one is, I'm not taking any chances. I can't afford to lose $250 to some lowlife who knows that being overseas means a tough job for me to prove a shipment actually arrived. I'd probably be better off not ever selling to foreign buyers I suppose.
More serious than thou
-------------------------------------------------------
> ..if you forget the plane tickets. ;)
>
> It goes like this:
>
> Registered Air Mail = 12.50 Euro customs fee + 20%
> of value
>
> EMS = anything from 40 to at least 75 Euro customs
> fee + clueless people who apparently can't
> calculate 20-25% of the value and manage to double
> it or ask you for the value that's written on the
> box and invoice in a letter with a due date that
> is usually past by the time you get the letter.
> And they don't understand what the "E" in EMS
> stands for (when Priority mail takes 2-3 weeks
> less than EMS...). It's like the more expensive
> the service, the less the monkeys running it can
> think.
All I can say about this is, if there's even a possibility that a buyer will pull what this one is, I'm not taking any chances. I can't afford to lose $250 to some lowlife who knows that being overseas means a tough job for me to prove a shipment actually arrived. I'd probably be better off not ever selling to foreign buyers I suppose.
More serious than thou
| January 23, 2012 11:05PM |
That was my temptation too, the knee-jerk reaction to just sell within the US. I even listed most auctions as US only, but then I got e-mails from European and Asian markets asking politely if they may be considered to bid or purchase the item. Most of them I had dealt with before and was happy to deal with again.
I'm all for mitigating risk, but to shut out a large segment of fellow collectors seems like punishing the whole class when one kid acts up. Especially if it's an item they really have a passion for.
I'm all for mitigating risk, but to shut out a large segment of fellow collectors seems like punishing the whole class when one kid acts up. Especially if it's an item they really have a passion for.
| January 23, 2012 11:13PM |
Supersentai Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> That was my temptation too, the knee-jerk reaction
> to just sell within the US. I even listed most
> auctions as US only, but then I got e-mails from
> European and Asian markets asking politely if they
> may be considered to bid or purchase the item.
> Most of them I had dealt with before and was happy
> to deal with again.
>
> I'm all for mitigating risk, but to shut out a
> large segment of fellow collectors seems like
> punishing the whole class when one kid acts up.
> Especially if it's an item they really have a
> passion for.
If I was selling just for the sake of selling to clear out space, I probably wouldn't mind this as much. However, I was selling things to pay for medical bills for my son, and really needed the cash to come through at the time. Beyond that, under normal circumstances, if I want to buy something myself, I have no choice but to sell something I already own. I can't justify the expense otherwise. So, I don't have much margin for error on these, and really cannot afford to be able to just accept such a loss as part of the price of doing business. I just don't sell enough to be able to just take it on the chin like that. Yeah, a repeat buyer I'd do a deal with, but I don't sell often enough to know who I've dealt with before. At least via Ebay that is.
More serious than thou
-------------------------------------------------------
> That was my temptation too, the knee-jerk reaction
> to just sell within the US. I even listed most
> auctions as US only, but then I got e-mails from
> European and Asian markets asking politely if they
> may be considered to bid or purchase the item.
> Most of them I had dealt with before and was happy
> to deal with again.
>
> I'm all for mitigating risk, but to shut out a
> large segment of fellow collectors seems like
> punishing the whole class when one kid acts up.
> Especially if it's an item they really have a
> passion for.
If I was selling just for the sake of selling to clear out space, I probably wouldn't mind this as much. However, I was selling things to pay for medical bills for my son, and really needed the cash to come through at the time. Beyond that, under normal circumstances, if I want to buy something myself, I have no choice but to sell something I already own. I can't justify the expense otherwise. So, I don't have much margin for error on these, and really cannot afford to be able to just accept such a loss as part of the price of doing business. I just don't sell enough to be able to just take it on the chin like that. Yeah, a repeat buyer I'd do a deal with, but I don't sell often enough to know who I've dealt with before. At least via Ebay that is.
More serious than thou
|
Sanjeev (Admin)
|
January 23, 2012 11:33PM |
I dunno, guys...I'm hardly a power seller, but I've always sold ONLY to US buyers. Sure, that shuts out a large segment of potential buyers, but it's not like USers don't have deep pockets too. I personally think the peace of mind and lack of hassle is totally worth any potential small loss in profit. Just saying...
| January 24, 2012 12:00AM |
| January 24, 2012 01:59AM |
Guess I've been lucky so far (knock on wood) with Priority Mail for sub-$200 items (I definitely use EMS for anything more). And everything gets insured and is trackable. That helped when the USPS monkeys decided to demolish my carefully packed 1/40 Takatoku Nikick. There was a hole in the side of the box that looked like it'd been made with an erect elephant penis.
Anyway.
As far as American vs. non-American bidders, I think it depends on the items. With vintage, the bids pretty much come from anywhere. With the modern TFs I've been trimming from my collection, though, the non-American bidders have definitely driven prices up. Here are three of the higher-priced items from my latest purge:
Henkei Mirage (high bidders listed in descending order)
Spain
U.S.
Chile
MP Grimlock (Japanese version)...and yes, this was a double...I have not forsaken the MP Grimlock.
Canada
Australia
Brazil
Ecuador
Israel
China
Henkei Inferno
Australia
Spain
U.S.
Overall, though, if you're concerned with being cheated, then you should just do whatever makes you comfortable--the potential additional profit isn't worth being in a constant state of worry. Hope everything works out, Matt, personally and with this deal.
Anyway.
As far as American vs. non-American bidders, I think it depends on the items. With vintage, the bids pretty much come from anywhere. With the modern TFs I've been trimming from my collection, though, the non-American bidders have definitely driven prices up. Here are three of the higher-priced items from my latest purge:
Henkei Mirage (high bidders listed in descending order)
Spain
U.S.
Chile
MP Grimlock (Japanese version)...and yes, this was a double...I have not forsaken the MP Grimlock.
Canada
Australia
Brazil
Ecuador
Israel
China
Henkei Inferno
Australia
Spain
U.S.
Overall, though, if you're concerned with being cheated, then you should just do whatever makes you comfortable--the potential additional profit isn't worth being in a constant state of worry. Hope everything works out, Matt, personally and with this deal.
| January 24, 2012 02:27AM |
fujikuro Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> thomas Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> > ..if you forget the plane tickets. ;)
> >
> > It goes like this:
> >
> > Registered Air Mail = 12.50 Euro customs fee +
> 20%
> > of value
> >
> > EMS = anything from 40 to at least 75 Euro
> customs
> > fee + clueless people who apparently can't
> > calculate 20-25% of the value and manage to
> double
> > it or ask you for the value that's written on
> the
> > box and invoice in a letter with a due date
> that
> > is usually past by the time you get the letter.
> > And they don't understand what the "E" in EMS
> > stands for (when Priority mail takes 2-3 weeks
> > less than EMS...). It's like the more expensive
> > the service, the less the monkeys running it
> can
> > think.
>
> All I can say about this is, if there's even a
> possibility that a buyer will pull what this one
> is, I'm not taking any chances. I can't afford to
> lose $250 to some lowlife who knows that being
> overseas means a tough job for me to prove a
> shipment actually arrived. I'd probably be better
> off not ever selling to foreign buyers I suppose.
I actually agree with you there. If you're going to sell a multi-100 dollar item, the buyer shouldn't whine about customs fees - I mean, he can pay that much, what is 100 bucks more to him?
However, items less than 100 bucks? I've been taxed 50% of the value of the item because it was sent by EMS...not gonna do that again.
When I look at complaints about international transactions on Ebait, 50% of them seem to be from people that apparently think items take as much time to travel between two countries as they do domestically, which is utter and total horseshit. Ebay isn't helping with their "if it takes longer than 2 weeks, start worrying"-policy. Most international parcels take 2-4 weeks, especially if customs is involved. Heck, I've had items stuck in customs for nearly 2 months. Most delays beyond that seem to be caused by sellers shipping late (which they then usually deny, despite the postage stamp showing so).
-------------------------------------------------------
> thomas Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> > ..if you forget the plane tickets. ;)
> >
> > It goes like this:
> >
> > Registered Air Mail = 12.50 Euro customs fee +
> 20%
> > of value
> >
> > EMS = anything from 40 to at least 75 Euro
> customs
> > fee + clueless people who apparently can't
> > calculate 20-25% of the value and manage to
> double
> > it or ask you for the value that's written on
> the
> > box and invoice in a letter with a due date
> that
> > is usually past by the time you get the letter.
> > And they don't understand what the "E" in EMS
> > stands for (when Priority mail takes 2-3 weeks
> > less than EMS...). It's like the more expensive
> > the service, the less the monkeys running it
> can
> > think.
>
> All I can say about this is, if there's even a
> possibility that a buyer will pull what this one
> is, I'm not taking any chances. I can't afford to
> lose $250 to some lowlife who knows that being
> overseas means a tough job for me to prove a
> shipment actually arrived. I'd probably be better
> off not ever selling to foreign buyers I suppose.
I actually agree with you there. If you're going to sell a multi-100 dollar item, the buyer shouldn't whine about customs fees - I mean, he can pay that much, what is 100 bucks more to him?
However, items less than 100 bucks? I've been taxed 50% of the value of the item because it was sent by EMS...not gonna do that again.
When I look at complaints about international transactions on Ebait, 50% of them seem to be from people that apparently think items take as much time to travel between two countries as they do domestically, which is utter and total horseshit. Ebay isn't helping with their "if it takes longer than 2 weeks, start worrying"-policy. Most international parcels take 2-4 weeks, especially if customs is involved. Heck, I've had items stuck in customs for nearly 2 months. Most delays beyond that seem to be caused by sellers shipping late (which they then usually deny, despite the postage stamp showing so).
| January 26, 2012 03:48PM |
Alright, at least it's over and I can move. Paypal (of course) ruled in their favor. So, now I have to figure out how I'm going to do this in the future. Once bitten, twice shy and all that. However, in more than a decade of selling on Ebay I've never had one of these before. I've had plenty of times when people don't pay, but that's not nearly as bad.
One thing I did recently was to switch to Priority Mail for everything inside the US (sometimes Media Mail for really cheap stuff), but pretty much anything sold on Ebay to a US buyer can have tracking attached to it. It's a lot harder to pull one of these here. It's about risk management, I guess. So, if something is more than X dollars, then I'd have to require signature confirmation or something.
Still mostly (intensely) irritated because these were things I would not have sold without the particular circumstances of my situation.
Perversely, it's made me more intent on selling things - partially to make up for the loss of the funds, but also because after all is said and done, I am not all that sad now to no longer have them (4 vintage G1 Transformers of varying worth).
It's spurring me to move on with my G1 collection, and pare it down to some ones that I truly enjoy (and that my kids really like), and sell off the rest. Anyone with an interest in such things can PM me. ;)
More serious than thou
One thing I did recently was to switch to Priority Mail for everything inside the US (sometimes Media Mail for really cheap stuff), but pretty much anything sold on Ebay to a US buyer can have tracking attached to it. It's a lot harder to pull one of these here. It's about risk management, I guess. So, if something is more than X dollars, then I'd have to require signature confirmation or something.
Still mostly (intensely) irritated because these were things I would not have sold without the particular circumstances of my situation.
Perversely, it's made me more intent on selling things - partially to make up for the loss of the funds, but also because after all is said and done, I am not all that sad now to no longer have them (4 vintage G1 Transformers of varying worth).
It's spurring me to move on with my G1 collection, and pare it down to some ones that I truly enjoy (and that my kids really like), and sell off the rest. Anyone with an interest in such things can PM me. ;)
More serious than thou
| January 27, 2012 02:26AM |
| January 27, 2012 01:55PM |
| January 27, 2012 02:45PM |
Given the choice, I would perfer to loose money on an item when I have little to no control over the outcome rather than dropping a chogokin on its head when I'm taking it out of the case to take pics in preparation for selling it. Expensive lesson on what was a mint Daidenjin before he "broke his crown".
Ouch!
Still, very sorry to hear about this, especially given the reason you were selling them in the first place.
Ouch!
Still, very sorry to hear about this, especially given the reason you were selling them in the first place.
| January 27, 2012 03:27PM |
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