Dudes say stuff about robots

Posted by VF5SS 
I will preface this by saying I have the utmost respect for the crew at Anime World Order as they're nice people online and in real life :D In a recent show done for the hippie podcast called Anime82, they were roped into a 12 Questions collaboration about the sacred robot genre. Several podcasters were asked to participate (myself included) which ended up in a long podcast of people saying stuff.

[www.awopodcast.com]

The AWO segment is only about 80 minutes. The link to download is next to the embedded player. I've heard thoughts about this venture from some of my colleagues already, but I wish to hear the thoughts to the experts here who wish to pick the brains of two talky fellow nerds. I respect their passion for the subject.
I have a few minor comments about that podcast, but right now I'm just going to post the one thing that made me genuinely angry.

"...I've been gettin' into all sorts of arguments with all sorts of CollectionDX autistics...", says Daryl at around 22 minutes in.

Wow, that's seriously uncalled-for. Straight up, fuck this guy for using "autistic" as an insult, and fuck him for describing people as developmentally disabled because they like to argue about the minutiae of fictional robots just as much as he does.

-Paul Segal

"Oh, the anger is never far, never far." -SteveH
Okay, so, this whole thing was pretty goofy, but hey, Veef, you want our opinions, I'll give you mine.

"I say things that are probably wrong, I guarantee at least some of it's wrong..."
Oh, that's a reassuring start.

Here are the points I reacted to most strongly:

They go back and forth over whether Bubblegum Crisis counts as "mecha anime". What, really? That just seems silly. Does anyone even care what "hardcore mecha fans" think about whether non-giant robots "qualify" as "mecha"? Certainly these guys seem to have spent enough time considering their own opinions that they shouldn't be bothering with the "hardcore" party line.
Later on, neither of them has any idea whether Candidate for Goddess counts as a mecha show. This is an anime series that is ENTIRELY about the main character striving to become a robot pilot.
I'm really not sure what higher standard they're measuring robot anime by. Based on their bizarre criticism of Patlabor, I guess a real mecha show is only one where the mecha could not possibly be replaced by anything other than giant humanoid robots? I never get tired of these guys saying things like "it's so much less about the mecha than it is about the characters," as if that was a major problem.

"...the only times I can really think of a mecha show that hits it off with a bunch of people are the shows that are kind of crafted to hit every single fan pocket that they possibly can - much like, I don't consider it a mecha show, but Fullmetal Alchemist is a show that's very carefully crafted to appeal to every single group of hardcore purchasing anime fan-"
"Which is one of the reasons why I hate that show, but that's another story."

I have absolutely no idea where they're coming from here. If they just hate the shonen action genre across the board, that's one thing - though I think it's a little frivolous for mecha action fans to hate on shonen action, or vice-versa. But within that genre, I have a hard time thinking of any shonen fantasy action series that's more of an auteur project than Fullmetal Alchemist. It lacks most of the standard shonen tropes, such as the characters who are a grab-bag of random wacky traits, the constant fighting in lieu of plot advancement... Furthermore, it has literally no pandering to adolescent male sexuality (which I would consider a prerequisite to "appeal to every demographic").

I like how the interviewer pauses slightly after saying, "Can you think of a non-anime-related related film, show or comic," allowing me to imagine that's the whole question.

"I just remember there was that one character that annoyed me greatly, because I couldn't figure out if the character was a man or a woman," says Gerald about Dilandau from Escaflowne.
Really, we're still dragging out this ancient criticism? Is there really anyone who's been watching anime for more than a few years who hasn't genuinely become accustomed to the commonality of feminine male characters, who still has that juvenile revulsion at the long hair and delicate features which appeal to a segment of female fans?

-Paul Segal

"Oh, the anger is never far, never far." -SteveH
Daryl's someone I respect and loath at the same time. Mostly his comments about "the
dark spectre of moe" but his love of Go Nagai's craziness sort of balance my opinion of him.

I outright hate Colony Drop though.

--------------------------------------------------------------

I asked if I have "Time For L-Gaim" but I got "No Reply From The Wind".



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 12/02/2011 07:18PM by Vincent Z..
"I will preface this by saying I have the utmost respect for the crew at Anime World Order as they're nice people online and in real life :D"

and then

"...I've been gettin' into all sorts of arguments with all sorts of CollectionDX autistics...", says Daryl at around 22 minutes in. "

They sound like commendable people.
He was specifically referring to this

[collectiondx.com]
Reading his reply to your podcast makes me think he is having a case of projection with the "autistic" comment...or he has some pathetic need to put himself above fellow nerds by suggesting they are mentally inferior to him. All while obsessing about what a mecha is and being needlessly pedantic about his own definition of mecha that no one else shares.

Perhaps we need to coin the term "mecha fundamentalist" for him? I.e. someone who defines mecha as something very specific and rejects others' opinions of it...

--
SilhouetteFormula.Net
I must admit some of this started when I kept bugging Daryl about his comments on the ANNcast where he said Code Geass isn't a mecha show. So I enlisted the help of Paul to help me concoct a counter argument. This is something he tends to throw out a lot when discussing mecha. Honestly though, that guy on CDX who responded to Daryl and proved that even within his own definition that Code Geass is a mecha show really impressed me because he used the structure of the show and facts about it to prove the point.

But ya know, I just like being argumentative sometimes.

Also I want to sow the seeds of doubt that Gundam Unicorn is secretly terrible :3
asterphage Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Really, we're still dragging out this ancient
> criticism? Is there really anyone who's been
> watching anime for more than a few years who
> hasn't genuinely become accustomed to the
> commonality of feminine male characters, who still
> has that juvenile revulsion at the long hair and
> delicate features which appeal to a segment of
> female fans?


I'm still trying to decide if 7-ZARK-7 is a boy-bot or a girl-bot, though I'm pretty sure Zoltar is a salamander and not a robot.
VF5SS Wrote:
> I must admit some of this started when I kept
> bugging Daryl about his comments on the ANNcast
> where he said Code Geass isn't a mecha show. So I
> enlisted the help of Paul to help me concoct a
> counter argument.

And now you're doing it again :3

-Paul Segal

"Oh, the anger is never far, never far." -SteveH
Well you're the only person I know besides like Jeremy or Carl who is online enough to do that :x
Yeah but now if Daryl found this thread and wanted to troll you he could make an alt account and write a response to his own podcast and feed you bad ideas

Not that that's what I'd do if I were him

or anything

-Paul Segal

"Oh, the anger is never far, never far." -SteveH



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 12/05/2011 07:39PM by asterphage.
Unless Asterphage is really Daryl in disguise!
you met him at the summit, dude

he's not black-ish
VF5SS Wrote:
> you met him at the summit, dude
>
> he's not black-ish

Yeah but on podcast Daryl SOUNDS like the same kind of average white nerd that you and I are. He could be me. Or you. You could be arguing with yourself.

-Paul Segal

"Oh, the anger is never far, never far." -SteveH
i always agree with myself about everything
You could be pretending to be him to be Paul to be you to be him to be you. So of course you'd agree with yourself about everything, with which I mean you three (two? one? infinite?) would agree with yourself on trolling the shit out of us poor readers.

Or perhaps this world is just a figment of your mind while you are in a coma after an accident.

--
SilhouetteFormula.Net
would i get to race cars like that new Driver game
thomas Wrote:
> You could be pretending to be him to be Paul to be
> you to be him to be you. So of course you'd agree
> with yourself about everything, with which I mean
> you three (two? one? infinite?) would agree with
> yourself on trolling the shit out of us poor
> readers.

Well, well, well... you've finally figured it out.

This entire messageboard, and every other website about toy robots, is just an elaborate ruse designed to troll YOU, Thomas. The true mastermind is an enemy you made back in the alt.toys.transformers days.

-Paul Segal

"Oh, the anger is never far, never far." -SteveH
...but Paul! We had agreed that no one would spill the beans about the actual existence of the Global Hivemind Creation Plan(TM)! Only excessively paranoid suggestions would be made, with no mention of the actual situation.

Well, at least the "Secret Conspiracy for the Global Acceptance of Kaiju through the Broadcasting of Documentaries (i.e. Power Rangers, Kamen Rider, etc.) Showcasing their Awesomeness to Kids of All Ages" and the "Campaign to Collect a Maximum of Funds from Nerds of All Kinds by Awakening their Hunter-Gatherer Instincts through the Non-Stop Proposal of Enticing Merchandise" are still one rails...oops!

--
SilhouetteFormula.Net
You're all just lucky the Illuminati allow you to exist.

---------------------------------
[pgaijin.blogspot.com]
thomas Wrote:
> "Secret Conspiracy for the Global Acceptance of
> Kaiju through the Broadcasting of Documentaries
> (i.e. Power Rangers, Kamen Rider, etc.)

hahahahaha

-Paul Segal

"Oh, the anger is never far, never far." -SteveH
I have no idea what the argument in the back-and-forth is about. And I don't have the patience to wade through it. So, instead, I'll just fling some wild accusations about.

Did someone claim that Code Gearass is not a mecha show? I might need some refreshing, but don't the pilots literally sit on motorcycles inside of cockpits? Or am I thinking of that sex-toy from BRUNO ? Because, wasn't that a mecha, too?
ahem~

VF5SS Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> I must admit some of this started when I kept
> bugging Daryl about his comments on the ANNcast
> where he said Code Geass isn't a mecha show.

Ass for your question,

I believe only Kallen sits inside her Guren Mk. II in the Orguss M. Lover designated ass up position. Everyone else sits inside their robots in a traditional seated position.
<<Ass for your question,>>

That doesn't sound like a fair trade.

---------------------------------
[pgaijin.blogspot.com]
I thought it was a breast of fresh air.

On second thought, let's just get some shut ass.
VF5SS Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> I thought it was a breast of fresh air.
>
> On second thought, let's just get some shut ass.


Tits okay - we'll finger it out later.
VF5SS Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> I must admit some of this started when I kept
> bugging Daryl about his comments on the ANNcast
> where he said Code Geass isn't a mecha show.
>
> Ass for your question,
>
> I believe only Kallen sits inside her Guren Mk. II
> in the Orguss M. Lover designated ass up position.
> Everyone else sits inside their robots in a
> traditional seated position.


So, would this Daryl guy say that Knight Rider isn't a car show? Because it's pretty mecha to me. Same goes for the Fast and Furious franchise. Pure mecha, with lots of slow-push ass shots thrown in for good measure.

Also... I had no idea the Goober Mach Choo was the only rump-up in Code Gearass. I watched a few episodes and quickly fell asleep. So, yeah. The main reason that design stuck out in my mind was because it occurred to me how terribly uncomfortable it must be to pilot in that position. Like, when I rode a motorcycle that way I felt like the mecha was literally trying to give my shoulders arthritis. Anyway, Kaneda's bike had the most ergonomic design ever and I totally understand why Evangelion ripped it off for their spinetubepits.
[en.wikipedia.org]

There were some experiments with real fighter aircraft which placed the pilot in a similar position so it's not outright crazy.

[gearsonline.net]

And Kazumi Fujita thought it was a good idea for this fucking thing no one cares about.

Also I feel kind of dirty referencing Wild Wild West the movie...
VF5SS Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> [en.wikipedia.org]
> Prone_Pilot%22
>
> There were some experiments with real fighter
> aircraft which placed the pilot in a similar
> position so it's not outright crazy.
>
I vaguely remember reading that when this position was tried in faster aircraft there were issues with the pilot blacking out due to the blood pooling out of his head...

In real life, motorcycle riders have a much higher risk of sustaining injuries or dying in traffic accidents, and if you ride an offroad cycle a lot you might sustain lower back injuries.
The only ones that are worse are quad riders, but I wonder if quads aren't ridden by less intelligent people on average, considering the number of stupid accidents involving quads (tight turns resulting in the rider being thrown off into greater danger, collisions with other vehicles with the other driver declaring that the quad swerved straight into their path, "my quad is impervious so I can use it right in the middle of a hurricane/earthquake/heavy storm/lion pen/raging truck traffic"...)

Now personally, I wonder how a harness to hold the pilot's body into position would work. Without such a harness, the pilot would die due to being thrown around or out of the cockpit any time the mecha would be hit or make a sudden move. With such a harness, pilots like Kallen could not actually ride their mecha, because AFAIK pressing breasts down on a surface for a longer period of time is very uncomfortable and increasingly painful the larger the breasts are. Not having good support there sounds like a recipe for back injuries. On the other hand, more kinky fanservice (if you like that).

--
SilhouetteFormula.Net


in animus, breasts are their own support and cushioning you see

this position creates ten times more "moooooooou!" in dialog per scene



the goofy ass scooters in Orguss have some straps that go across the rider's big, beautiful, Gypsy-like business sense

in one episode Mimsy learns her mom fell off one and was dying in the hospital as a result

now that's drama

*copy and paste the links, there's some redirect issues



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 12/08/2011 01:33PM by VF5SS.
VF5SS Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> [gearsonline.net]
> lover/mlovercock-1.gif
>
> mlovercock-1.gif

...

--
SilhouetteFormula.Net
VF5SS Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> [en.wikipedia.org]
> Prone_Pilot%22
>
> There were some experiments with real fighter
> aircraft which placed the pilot in a similar
> position so it's not outright crazy.

[www.flickr.com]
(bigger image)
sheesh


thomas Wrote:
>
> With such a harness, pilots like Kallen could not
> actually ride their mecha, because AFAIK pressing
> breasts down on a surface for a longer period of
> time is very uncomfortable and increasingly
> painful the larger the breasts are.

This is sound reasoning but it's just worlds apart from the actual concerns of the creators of the Code Geass anime. Which are more along the lines of, "How can we get Kallen's breasts or ass on screen in every shot that's not a robot fight or Lelouch smirking?"


VF5SS Wrote:
>
> in one episode Mimsy learns her mom fell off one
> and was dying in the hospital as a result

HAHAHAHAHAHA. Does everyone learn a valuable lesson about off-road hover safety???

-Paul Segal

"Oh, the anger is never far, never far." -SteveH



Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 12/08/2011 01:42PM by asterphage.
asterphage Wrote:
------------------------------------
> [www.flickr.com]
> (bigger image)
> sheesh
>

that's basically a government mandated sex chair



> This is sound reasoning but it's just worlds apart
> from the actual concerns of the creators of the
> Code Geass anime. Which are more along the lines
> of, "How can we get Kallen's breasts or ass on
> screen in every shot that's not a robot fight or
> Lelouch smirking?"
>

Honestly I don't recall too many ass shots of Kallen in the Guren's cockpit. Mostly I remember her doing her best Domon Kasshu impersonation (even has the hair) by using the Guren's dimension bending claw attack.

AND WHAT ABOUT THE SCENES WITH ARTHUR :[


> HAHAHAHAHAHA. Does everyone learn a valuable
> lesson about off-road hover safety???


It was kind of a cheap stab at drama to pull Mimsy away from Kei for a bit. Up until this point they kept hammering the fact that Emaan girls can't conceive children past the age of 17 so if Kei didn't bang her now, she risked losing her status as a woman in Emaan society. They illustrate this horrible fate by showing Glowmer's captain, Shaia, casually walking in on Kei while he was in the very Japanese (for an alternate dimension earth ship) bathing room and changing clothes next to the useless male character Sley. Basically Emaan men are no longer sexually attracted to a hot redhead (with tentacles) because she can't pump out one or two kids. And it's always one child or twins in their society. There's more women than men and the women can only bear children once.

An otaku's dream world.


Also remember, M. Lover is pronounce "Mo Ravaa~"



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 12/08/2011 03:49PM by VF5SS.
VF5SS Wrote:
>
> Honestly I don't recall too many ass shots of
> Kallen in the Guren's cockpit.

There are a fair amount, but it's not just that. They take any excuse they can to get her in the shower, or wrapped in a bedsheet, or in just a shirt and panties, or even, once, fighting Suzaku naked after he came upon her bathing in a waterfall on an idyllic island.

The other day I was looking at some screencaps I took from Geass R2, and I noticed that I'd made some kind of count of how many shots of her cleavage or butt (or that "bulging vulva seen from behind" shot common to anime, superhero comics, and spandex fetish porn) there were in a couple of short fight scenes. It was a lot. There was even this one very strange transition, where they cut from Lelouch's heart-shaped locket falling straight to Kallen's heart-shaped rear end.

I also noticed that when I last watched Votoms, I made a similar screenshot tally of the times we see Fyana and Ypsilon in their jijirium showers/capsules. The actual number of nude scenes is probably in keeping with their respective importance to the plot, but we never even see Ypsilon below the shoulders, while Fyana's lovingly drawn breasts and Barbie-doll crotch are on display almost every time.

Robot anime: Staring creepily at its female characters for decades.

Stay tuned for my full-length statistical analysis of fanservice through the ages. Nah, just kidding, later on I'll post the best close-ups of the Scopedog's main camera.

-Paul Segal

"Oh, the anger is never far, never far." -SteveH



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 12/08/2011 03:58PM by asterphage.
Let's not even mention the couple of Sayaka shower scenes in the Mazinger TV show (or Go Nagai's entire body of work in manga for that matter) or where in Galient one of the first things we see Himulka do is try to (jokingly) seduce a twelve year old kid or how she has to fend off groping attempts from Shigeru Chiba as the thief.

And how every robot show has to have a beach scene or at the very least an episode where women wear bathing suits.


You get to see Ypsilon's tight, firm Votoms during Last Red Shoulder. And I think one Jijirium shower scene showed a bit more.

Granted his PAHFECTO SOLJYA uniform doesn't leave much to the imagination.

I imagine him as a hunk <3
Yeah I wanted to mention before that I know Kallen gets the fanservice treatment that's par for the course but at least when she's in her robot the show focuses on that aspect of her character is brought to the forefront of the narrative. Shower scenes and pantyshots are barely worth mentioning at this point.

I should add to that part of the perceived disparity between male and female oriented fanservice stems from what Fujoshi (and regular women) find attractive in male characters as it is more transparent to male viewers than what neckbeards want in their waifus. Your typical nerd wants to just stare at jiggling breasts for a half hour (thanks Gainax) with the design of female characters being typically meant to tantalize at all possible times.

By contrast, fujoshi can just look at Char Aznable and feel the three times more intense masculinity in his pants. As a devilishly handsome blonde-haired, blue-eyed young man in uniform who exudes confidence and has a mysterious past, he embodies a kind of ideal that one may find in shitty romance novels. Coupled with a shower scene that was so strong they had to immediately give Garma a case of the not-gays just to compensate and the fact he once rode around on a goddamn white horse kinda makes it hard to ignore his intense impact on budding young fujoshi. Coupled with Shuchi Ikeda's husky voice, it's no wonder girls are swooning over thirty years later. Even male protagonists who came to oppose the Chars of anime displayed varying levels of loyalty to friends and loved ones while rocking some perfect hair forever cause cartoons don't need Brill cream.

I swear there are so many scenes where you could photoshop in some shoujo sparkles around Hikaru's face during DYRL and it wouldn't look out of place at all.

Even Jiron from Xabungle is pretty cut in that skintight future outfit he wears.
VF5SS Wrote:
>
> You get to see Ypsilon's tight, firm Votoms during
> Last Red Shoulder. And I think one Jijirium shower
> scene showed a bit more.
>
> Granted his PAHFECTO SOLJYA uniform doesn't leave
> much to the imagination.
>
> I imagine him as a hunk <3

Ypsilon is SUCH a hunk.

[lockerz.com]

~ HUNKS ~

-Paul Segal

"Oh, the anger is never far, never far." -SteveH
VF5SS Wrote:
>
> I should add to that part of the perceived
> disparity between male and female oriented
> fanservice stems from what Fujoshi (and regular
> women) find attractive in male characters as it is
> more transparent to male viewers than what
> neckbeards want in their waifus.

I was going to disagree with something in there, but I think I just misinterpreted how you're using the term "transparent". I would've said that male-targeted fanservice is more transparent, in the sense that the machinations of audience manipulation are there for all to see, not hidden beneath the surface. But I guess what you mean is that female-targeted fanservice is more transparent in the sense that the male audience looks right through it - it's "transparent" in the sense that it's invisible to viewers who it doesn't appeal to.

Unless it takes the form of boys who look like Dilandau. Then they get mad.

-Paul Segal

"Oh, the anger is never far, never far." -SteveH



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 12/08/2011 07:15PM by asterphage.
yeah transparent is my new 1000 yen word

i'll grow out of it eventually
Sorry, only registered users may post in this forum.

Click here to login

footer