The Walking Dead thread.

Posted by Roger 
They've posted the first episode online:

[bit.ly]
Saw it on TV this week.

Utterly, simply, divinely FANTASTIC.
Anonymous User
Was good overall, the pacing was a little slow, and not a lot happened, but I'm hoping it will pick up.
Shouldn't this be renamed The Walking Thread?
I was thinking about that but went for the rhyme instead of the pun.

I enjoyed it. I think Darabont did a much better job at turning Kirkman's characters into real people than than Kirkman did.
Roger Wrote:
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> I enjoyed it. I think Darabont did a much better
> job at turning Kirkman's characters into real
> people than than Kirkman did.


Agreed. I've read all the compendiums released thus far and always felt like Kirkman's characters were interchangeable. Maybe it's the way they're drawn, but whenever part of the cast was killed off I almost always had to double check who the character was.

"Which young blond woman was it that just died? The one guy's sister or the other guy's girlfriend? Or are they the same? Wait, then who's this other young blond woman? She just arrived with the refresh cast? Then is the girl with the cap the same one as this girl (but just wearing a cap now), or is it a different girl? Mmm..."

The editor might have picked up on a similar vibe because it seems like the refreshed cast became more cartoony over time to help differentiate them - really fat, really bearded, really muscular, really old, really amputated...

Seems like good source material for a tv series considering how it just keeps chugging along. It's already a serialized apocalyptic soap opera on paper. Why not make the jump to television?
I'm not familiar with the comics but it was highly entertaining just the same! I definitely agree that the characters are much more fleshed out than your typical zombie romp. Sucks that the first season will only be 6 episodes.
Liked the second episode. Man, those zombies are way up there on the Hinzman scale for intelligence. Using rocks to break windows? Much sharper than the ones in the comic.
Yeah, not sure how Zombie movie "purists" would like the idea of zombies using tools or having some dependance on scent to single out their prey. But definitely a very enjoyable episode. And it just got renewed for a Second Season.
Anonymous User
I find myself wondering where the show will 'go', then realize -'oh, it is following the comic... mostly', which of course is an ongoing series with no end in sight.

Really enjoying it thus far. Whatever differences there are from the source material, it stands on its own well enough that it doesn't detract.
Sanjeev (Admin)
Just watched the second episode. Definitely enjoying it thus far...though the lack of a pre-written ending--whether we're privy to it or not via the comic--is a bit worrisome. Oh, for the record, I haven't read any of the comic.

But, yeah, while the intelligence discrepancies don't detract from my enjoyment, they're kinda conspicuous. Almost distracting. Like, the zombies took a minute to figure out the ladder...yet they sure hopped that chain link fence like they were trained to do it.

And the rocks to bust the glass was plain bullshit. Next, they'll be doing their own taxes online. :P
Gcrush Wrote:
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> Roger Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------

> "Which young blond woman was it that just died?
> The one guy's sister or the other guy's
> girlfriend? Or are they the same? Wait, then
> who's this other young blond woman? She just
> arrived with the refresh cast? Then is the girl
> with the cap the same one as this girl (but just
> wearing a cap now), or is it a different girl?
> Mmm..."
>
> The editor might have picked up on a similar vibe
> because it seems like the refreshed cast became
> more cartoony over time to help differentiate themp
> - really fat, really bearded, really muscular,
> really old, really amputated...
>

I hope "really amputated" never becomes an accurate way to describe me. I also agree that you can't tell the characters apart in the comic.
Here's my no-prize answer for explaining why those zombies could climb the fence: in a pack of zombies, there are going to be "fresher" ones, those that went dead more recently than the others in the pack. They're going to be a little quicker to react, a little faster, and a little brighter. They'd be the first ones to reach the fence and the ones most likely to climb it, and I don't think climbing is that complex of a task for a primate (even a reanimated one).

As for using rocks to break the glass, I can accept it, there's a precedent (hence the obscure reference I made earlier), but it causes a problem in that it deviates from the comic. When answering questions to his readers, Kirkman has said that his zombies are barely bright or dextrous enough to negotiate stairs. I don't think the zombies need this kind of advantage, they're scary enough in huge shambling packs. Maybe they will get slower and dumber as the show goes on.
Roger, your no-prize is in the mail.

The debate about zomtelligence is lame because it's so selective. In Romero's first films there were stair climbing zombies, ones using tools, opening doors, and so forth. None of that is new territory - it's been canonized in cinema for decades now.

And as George's, uh, "career" progressed so did the example of zomtelligence - especially the "memories of life" angle. By his fourth film he has them pumping gas and setting off bombs. By the sixth film they can ride horses.

Anyway, if zombies didn't have the intelligence and motor skills to open doors or smash things with rocks then how the hell can they walk, grab people, or know to beat against windows and doors? Or to follow sounds that have long since stopped? Hell, you could end the zombie apocalypse with pillowcases tied around their heads 'cause they wouldn't be able to figure out how to get them off...
Sanjeev (Admin)
Poppycock!

Zomtelligence is a farce. You know why? 'Cause if zombies have any modicum of smarts, then what exactly is the disadvantage of becoming zombified???

Fucking sign me up! Don't need to work ever again. Can crap my pants all day. Am kinda smart...sorta. Am immortal. What the fuck?
Yeah, based on seeing the mom go for the door knob and stuff, I was assuming it was very specific incidental memory retention, not an overall functioning cognition. Maybe the rock zombie was trying to bust in a window to save himself when he died. Just like the little girl zack went for her teddy bear... last strong memory remains somewhere in the corrupted brain functions?

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Sanjeev Wrote:
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> Zomtelligence is a farce. You know why? 'Cause if
> zombies have any modicum of smarts, then what
> exactly is the disadvantage of becoming
> zombified???

Aside from the humanistic implications of being zombified, there's still the differences between sentience, sapience, and intelligence.

Zombies are, at a minimum, sentient.

Some zombies appear to be sapient, though only in so much as they use simple tools, communicate, and "get at" problem solve.

No zombies are capable of registering on any human intelligence quotient - they probably wouldn't rate higher than the sensorimotor stage in Piaget's scale.

Working over Roger's no-prize, those differences could simply be attributed to the "freshness" of the zombie. Once infected their frontal lobes get scrambled from the fever and then steadily decline over time. For all we know, their brains might eventually turn into pudding over a long enough time and they just naturally drop when their brain stems go. Headshot by starvation if you will. Maybe zombies delay that process by eating. But they're definitely not immortal - eventually even the most successful zombie will still wear itself into dust from mechanical abrasion.

Like I mentioned above, zombies at best rate about as "smart" as a severely autistic three year old. Or an alligator. If that sounds like a good exchange for you, well... That's some metaphysical shit, son. As in, ego death in exchange for material longevity. I can't think of any cosmologies in which that's a goal, but the implications are interesting. It's iconoclastic and I like it.

Anyway, my point was that decades ago we saw Romero zombies smash things with rocks, open doors, climb stairs, avoid fire, selectively target more vulnerable sections of a structure, follow each other around, and - oh yeah - shoot guns. People accept Romero's work as the first fully realized, and often the most authoritative, depiction of zombies. His zombies were already doing the things the TWD zombies are doing. If it wasn't controversial then, why is it now?
Sanjeev (Admin)
I never met a vegetable who complained about being a vegetable.
But did you meet anyone that wasn't a vegetable but wanted to become one?

If I had to choose, I would be an eggplant...
Prometheum5 Wrote:
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> Yeah, based on seeing the mom go for the door knob
> and stuff, I was assuming it was very specific
> incidental memory retention, not an overall
> functioning cognition. Maybe the rock zombie was
> trying to bust in a window to save himself when he
> died. Just like the little girl zack went for her
> teddy bear... last strong memory remains somewhere
> in the corrupted brain functions?


I hereby retract Rog's No Prize and give it to you instead!
>And the rocks to bust the glass was plain bullshit. Next, they'll be doing their own taxes online. :P

Ha!

Well the "intelligent" zombie actions don't really bug me, as the two episodes have been great so far.

The only thing that hasn't made sense to me is that the cop (blanking on his name) has never asked anyone, "What happened here?" or anything about why everyone turned into zombies. That doesn't make sense to me, especially given all the focus on everyday details in the show (which I love). One of my favorite moments so far was when he's returned home and in a bewildered state he says, "Am I dreaming...?" I thought this was a nice moment showing how a typical person woudl think and react in that situation...
Watched the third episode and enjoyed it--I really liked Darabont's Mist and this show has the feel of that movie, right down to reusing the blond actress.

The family reunion was quite touching. As was the gang-initiation-styled beating of the zombie.

I think one example that speaks volumes about this show, and why it's better than it should be despite regurgitating so many movie tropes (sawed-off hand? please), is that the most emotionally riveting scene in the episode involved the jilted dude beating the crap out of the dude who just slapped the taste out of his wife's mouth. No zombies involved at all for the drama, and sort of related to what Robert said about the (occasional) emotional realism being such a factor. Nice!



Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 11/16/2010 02:25AM by gingaio.
Sanjeev (Admin)
Just caught up with the third ep. Yeah, the scene where Shane beats the shit outta--then back into--that dickhead was pretty intense.

I was wondering about the hacksawed hand at the end. I mean, this wasn't Johnny the boy having just minutes to hack through his ankle to get away from the car. The chain on the door never gave way...so Merle coulda taken his time with the chain on the handcuffs...

Whatever. We're such nerds! Hahah....good show. I'm feeling it.
>I was wondering about the hacksawed hand at the end. I mean, this wasn't Johnny the boy having just minutes to hack through his ankle to get away from the car. The chain on the door never gave way...so Merle coulda taken his time with the chain on the handcuffs...

I assuemed that the implication was that the zombies started to break through somehow. But wait...The returning survivors still had to cut through the chain from the inside. OK, now it makes no sense. Maybe some zombies flew in on hang-gliders and he had to saw through his hand for a quick escape?

Anyway, I enjoyed ep 3, but there's still my aforementioned nagging question of why the cop doesn't ask anyone WHY there are zombies around.

Also why is the survivors' encampment next to a heavily wooded area with next to NO VISIBILITY to spot approacing zombies? Or are they supposed to be hiding from other survivors? That makes no sense to me. Maybe they're there to have close access to food (a la deer, "varmints" etc.)? Still, I'd be parked out in the middle of a field somewhere...
The conditions that cause limited visibility probably also provide terrain that is tougher for the zombies to negotiate. Also, the zombies seem to be congregating in the towns and cities where they spent their lives. Seems like a good strategy to me.
Sanjeev Wrote:
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> The chain on the door never gave
> way...so Merle coulda taken his time with the
> chain on the handcuffs...
>
Good catch. To play devil's advocate for the writers, the explanation could be that 1) Merle was on the verge of losing his mind and/or in a state of extreme desperation (which was shown), mostly because... 2) Merle's been on the roof for who knows how long without food/water, exposed to the elements, which means that his time's not unlimited even with the zombies safely barricaded on the other side.

But having a horde on zombies on the other side, when you're already on the verge of breaking, could be just what's needed to tip you over after you've been staring at the sun for days on end. This is the biggest reason for me--it's very likely that he had no idea whether the door would hold--he didn't see what the other guy did in securing it and the other guy didn't exactly say, "Hey, Merle, I'm going to totally secure it so they won't eat your ass! You're safe, you racist redneck that tried to kill me!" If I were in his position, I'd be scared shitless, too.

That said, it requires quite a mental stretch to justify a most hackneyed plot device.
Anonymous User
Robaato D Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> >I was wondering about the hacksawed hand at the
> end. I mean, this wasn't Johnny the boy having
> just minutes to hack through his ankle to get away
> from the car. The chain on the door never gave
> way...so Merle coulda taken his time with the
> chain on the handcuffs...
>
> I assuemed that the implication was that the
> zombies started to break through somehow. But
> wait...The returning survivors still had to cut
> through the chain from the inside. OK, now it
> makes no sense. Maybe some zombies flew in on
> hang-gliders and he had to saw through his hand
> for a quick escape?
>

Assuming that is Merle's hand and that he was the one to remove it with the hacksaw... The hand and cut at the wrist were surprisingly clean for a self-amputation.
I only see one possible outcome of the Merle situation and that is he comes back as a zombie.
Sanjeev (Admin)
gingaio Wrote:
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> "Hey, Merle, I'm going to totally secure it so
> they won't eat your ass! You're safe, you racist
> redneck that tried to kill me!"

Hehe...you're point's totally taken. Honestly, I brought up the handcuff thing because I wanted to post something about the show other than "huh huh...kewl...huh huh"! My criticisms (if you can call them that) don't actually mean much to me. I just have nothing else to talk about! :P

BUT...while we're on the subject...

Merle was a loose cannon from the get. The black dude felt bad for dropping the key??? I woulda plugged his ass from the beginning. Despite my tongue-in-cheek defense of (smart) zombie-ism, I'd likely opt for survival. And that means lancing the trigger-happy, anti-social elements in my party.
>The conditions that cause limited visibility probably also provide terrain that is tougher for the zombies to negotiate. Seems like a good strategy to me.

Well, it would of course be good to be located in an area adjacent to terrain that's tougher to get through, but if your encampment is about 10 feet from the tree line where you can’t even see a zombie slowly shuffling toward you, I don't think this is a good thing.

Tell you what, we can settle this debate thusly: When the zombie apocalypse arrives, you camp out near the woods and I'll be in the middle of a giant empty field and we can see who gets eaten first. ; )
So, I read the first volume of the comic before seeing tonight's episode, and I have to say that knowing at least in part what to expect made the episode all the more captivating and intense.

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Robaato D Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Well, it would of course be good to be located in
> an area adjacent to terrain that's tougher to get
> through, but if your encampment is about 10 feet
> from the tree line where you can’t even see a
> zombie slowly shuffling toward you, I don't think
> this is a good thing.

They had a warning system in place: the string of pots and pans designed to make noise if something blundered into it. Not perfect but it was something.

> Tell you what, we can settle this debate thusly:
> When the zombie apocalypse arrives, you camp out
> near the woods and I'll be in the middle of a
> giant empty field and we can see who gets eaten
> first. ; )

If you can see the zombies, they can see you, too, can't they? Good luck with that. ;p
Really enjoyed the finale. I don't mind the departure from the comic, I think it gave the story a chance to transcend the source material. Good horror and science fiction uses the premise to ask bigger and more meaningful questions than "what's going to happen next?"

In this case, the entire group got the chance to make the same decision Rick did when he was stuck under the tank. For some there was no question as to which direction they wanted to take, for others it was a little muddier. Darabont touched on this in The Mist, I liked that he revisited it here.

I liked the fact that they took the opportunity to delve into what's causing the zombie outbreak. And the reality is, they don't know! The last thing I wanted this show to do was dangle some sort of carrot in front of the human race for a solution to the problem. At this point it is just a matter of surviving.

And I totally forgot about that grenade! Anton Chekhov would be proud. And I don't think we need to have read the comic to know what Dr. Jenner whispered to Rick.

Now that we saw exactly what Shane went through, does he get a pass? Maybe.

Downsides? I could have done without the Star Trek-style computer, we still don't have technology like that, nor do we really need it. Also, that CGI look into the dying/reanimated brain implausible, too, but it served a purpose.

Did I hallucinate, or did the promo for the finale seem to indicate it would revolve around Andrea possibly being infected?
Roger Wrote:
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> Did I hallucinate, or did the promo for the finale
> seem to indicate it would revolve around Andrea
> possibly being infected?

It did. Combination of blood drawing scene + drunken vomiting ='s she's INFLECTED.
Roger Wrote:
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> And I don't think we need
> to have read the comic to know what Dr. Jenner
> whispered to Rick.
>


What did he whisper to Rick? I don't remember that in the comic, so I'm interested to know.
Well, the flashback montage in the beginning of the episode showed Shane and Lori having sex in the woods, and Dr. Jenner did collect blood from everybody.
Ah, got it.

Regarding Merle hacking off his hand rather than the cuffs, Rick or one of the people that found the hand said "that hacksaw must have been too dull to cut through the chain." So that's how they explained it.
I find Dale pretty grating of a character. I don't know if that's the intention but the guy playing him just rubs me the wrong way for some reason. I'm one who liked the character in the comic.

I'm glad the show isn't following the comic all the time. Gives readers surprises they aren't expecting. Kind of like a novel being adapted to film. I just want to see a good story.

I wonder where the story will go next year now that Darabount fired all the staff writers this season and is thinking of having no staff writers at all opting to go with freelance writers instead. Unusual but not unheard of.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 12/07/2010 04:46AM by gaiking123.
gaiking123 Wrote:
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> I find Dale pretty grating of a character. I don't
> know if that's the intention but the guy playing
> him just rubs me the wrong way for some reason.

Same here. It's a combination of his voice and facial expressions. The dood is about as grating as Brainy Smurf.


> I'm glad the show isn't following the comic all
> the time. Gives readers surprises they aren't
> expecting. Kind of like a novel being adapted to
> film. I just want to see a good story.

The comics always seemed too close to jumping the shark until I realized that they were riding the shark the whole time. It's a limitation of the serialized genre. The law of Entertainment Entropy states that all good stories will come crashing down in a mire of bad prose or acting if left going too long. Refusing to push the characters out of the second act is worse than killing them off.

This one's for Gingy: I submit, sir, that the endlessly deferred narrative has retarded our collective sensibilities about what constitutes quality entertainment; i.e. more ='s gooder. I command you to argue with me using a painfully extended zombie metaphor.


> I wonder where the story will go next year now
> that Darabount fired all the staff writers this
> season and is thinking of having no staff writers
> at all opting to go with freelance writers
> instead. Unusual but not unheard of.

The producer says not to believe everything the internets tells you.

The huge fireball conclusion to the first season bugged me. A little too gratuitous. I realize they needed some kind of threat to move them out of the building and beyond, but that was the best they could do? Make it go boom? Meh.
<<<<The huge fireball conclusion to the first season bugged me. A little too gratuitous. I realize they needed some kind of threat to move them out of the building and beyond, but that was the best they could do? Make it go boom? Meh.>>>>>


Agreed. Anyone surprised Dale did not care at all about Jacqui, almost as she was invisible while he was trying convince Andrea to leave? I was waiting for her to say, "wait, I'm here too, Hello?"

Come to think of it, I'm not a big fan of the Andrea on the show either. She's one of my favorite characters in the comic book but I think casting the older Laurie Holden was another misfire. I know Darabount casts her in just about everything but I would have rather seen her cast as Lori instead. Out of this whole group, since Amy died, there is not young woman in the whole show (not counting Carol's daughter who to me is more of a background character) which is kind of strange.

Hate to admit this, part of me was hoping Dale and Andrea did stay in the explosion. Now that would have been a surprise.

Also those Racist Asian comments by Daryl are kind of over the top. Both characters are becoming irrelevant and more one note after each episode.

I am not very impressed by the show's dialogue at all.

I grade this whole season a B-. Lots of the episodes are too slow for my tastes with nothing really moving in terms of story. Will give next season a try but won't hesitate not watching if it doesn't get better.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 12/07/2010 02:39PM by gaiking123.
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