Do superhero toys really suck?

Posted by Gcrush 
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Roger
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Sanjeev
Don't really do anything, do they?
I think it's more about what they don't do. Like they don't break when you club your younger siblings with them.

Five points of articulation, 12 inches tall, big and clunky, very awesome. Star Wars is getting them, too:

[www.rebelscum.com]

[www.rebelscum.com]

Exactly: I'll cop to picking up both Iron Man and Spidey at the Walmart for $10 a pop...My nephews were in love instantly and they are a mighty good diversion from the Hottoys versions I have in the cabinet. I will say this, that for just a little more than a standard 3.75 incher and no joints to fly apart or pieces to lose they are ideal for the kids. They remind me of those old Toy Biz 12 inchers at oddly about the same price and articulation, but with better materials.
Yeah, it seems like for both Iron Man and Star Wars, they're shifting the adult collectors to the larger, more expensive 6" lines.

The Japanese companies are really getting into the superhero licenses, mainly due to the movies. Figma Avengers and Spiderman, Figuarts Iron Man 2 figures, Revoltechs, Play Arts Kai anime/FF-like DC Universe characters, along with all the Kotobikuya statues and whatnot.
[www.bigbadtoystore.com]

Stretching the definition of superhero toys here. Anyway. Just a couple of quick questions:

1) If I wear both the jacket and vest, would I be doing a disservice to my massive guns by wrapping them in fabric?

2) If I decide on wearing just the vest, should I get a Hello Kitty tattoo on just one arm, or should I get a Hello Kitty tattoo for each arm?

Advice and suggestions are welcome. Thanks.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 03/04/2013 04:31PM by gingaio.
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gingaio
[www.bigbadtoystore.com]

Stretching the definition of superhero toys here. Anyway. Just a couple of quick questions:

1) If I wear both the jacket and vest, would I be doing a disservice to my massive guns by wrapping them in fabric?

2) If I decide on wearing just the vest, should I get a Hello Kitty tattoo on just one arm, or should I get a Hello Kitty tattoo for each arm?

Advice and suggestions are welcome. Thanks.

I honestly think we should make an effort to bring back the word "nerd" as derogatory slang. I would suggest "geek", too, but I think it's already been co-opted by capitalism to the point of no return. As a society, we've lost all ability to socially discourage this type of fucking nuttery. All of our cultural boogey-men have been relegated to the lonesome, thoughtless stereotype of "ragheads". Which is really surprising since we're so good at exploiting nearly everything else for commercial ends.

But I digress.

I asked TEH GOOGLE and it replied thusly:

"While Hello Kitty tattoos are prevalent enough to warrant being considered their own subgenre of body-art-based-upon-pop-icons-originally-purposed-for-commerical-products*, the incidence of symmetrical Hello Kitty tattoos is low enough to suggest to following maxim: One tattoo for conformity, two for innovation."





* See also: Fast Food Tattoo, Disney Tattoo, Cereal Mascot Tattoo, Automobile Logo Tattoo, Comic Book Tattoo, Sneaker Tattoo, Sports Team Tattoo, Star Wars Tattoo, Video Game Tattoo, and Anything Else That Would Make Ron English's Sense of Irony Irrelevant.
Sanjeev (Admin)
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Gcrush
I honestly think we should make an effort to bring back the word "nerd" as derogatory slang. I would suggest "geek", too, but I think it's already been co-opted by capitalism to the point of no return. As a society, we've lost all ability to socially discourage this type of fucking nuttery.

Amen.

^^I've been advocating for this very thing for ages now.

I guess I'm just getting more and more ornery in my advancing years. ;)
*body-art-based-upon-pop-icons-originally-purposed-for-commerical-products*

Gulp.

---------------------------------
[pgaijin.blogspot.com]




These will look good with my Weapon X footie jammies.
Sanjeev (Admin)
Do we need to start another thread entitled, "Does superhero apparel really suck?"? ;)
Wait, you can zip it up all the way and cover your face? Does it have eye slits or something?

And I thought the grimlock hoodie was nerdy...
Did somebody say Grimlock hoodie? Hmmmmm.

I caught myself not long ago fixated on the replica crew jackets from the Yamato (Space Cruiser type) series...just couldn't get past the fact that I would not look anywhere near cool wearing a white plasticated polyester jacket with red, blue or green accenting and big chest arrow.

I'm almost sure of it.
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Supersentai
I caught myself not long ago fixated on the replica crew jackets from the Yamato (Space Cruiser type) series...just couldn't get past the fact that I would not look anywhere near cool wearing a white plasticated polyester jacket with red, blue or green accenting and big chest arrow.

Years ago, there was a Gundam 0083 replica shirt or jacket (can't remember which...maybe both?) that for a quick second I thought about picking up. In my defense, the jacket or shirt could almost pass for a real jacket or shirt, and at the time, I was swooning over the OVA.

Anyway, the last couple of days, I've been obsessively staring at the pics on this page in my work-procrastination: [www.actionfigureinsider.com]

The Super Powers line holds a fond place in my childhood memories. I may have to start picking up some DCUC figs...
The 6" Classic Shellhead from the new Iron Man 3 line is pretty swell. Mr. Crush suggested I buy the Maria Hill 2-pack version a while back, and I understand now why he did. It's a nice figure. The brighter, flatter yellow on the first version is definitely more toy accurate, which is nice, but it doesn't work well with the metallic red parts of the figure. The metallic yellow on this version blends in a lot better.





Edited 3 time(s). Last edit at 03/25/2013 01:48AM by gingaio.
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gingaio
The 6" Classic Shellhead from the new Iron Man 3 line is pretty swell. Mr. Crush suggested I buy the Maria Hill 2-pack version a while back, and I understand now why he did. It's a nice figure. The brighter, flatter yellow on the first version is definitely more toy accurate, which is nice, but it doesn't work well with the metallic red parts of the figure. The metallic yellow on this version blends in a lot better.

Wait, I said that? Don't listen to me. Buy the gold colored one instead. Which you did. So... I'm glad this whole time-travel thing worked out so neatly for us. Good show!
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Supersentai
I caught myself not long ago fixated on the replica crew jackets from the Yamato (Space Cruiser type) series...just couldn't get past the fact that I would not look anywhere near cool wearing a white plasticated polyester jacket with red, blue or green accenting and big chest arrow.

In addition to machines whose moving parts cannot clear their other moving parts when they are in fact intended to move, this is another fantastic example of bad design resultin in both sci-fi and superhero suckage. Every article of clothing looks like it was designed in some nightmare universe where Godheads Elton John and George Clinton fused together in a miasma of loud, functionless textile extremes that became the basis of all known uniform design principles.

I mean, fuck, those stupid desert hillbilly Tusken Raiders are more functionally clothed than literally anything ever in any Gundam universe. Or comic book. Or sci-fi movie. Damn.
Sanjeev (Admin)
Wait--what was wrong with those khaki-colored button-down short sleeves in 0083? They seemed kinda generic...but not exactly non-functional...

Anyway, I don't know if these were discussed in any other threads, but is anyone digging NECA's Predator stuff? Ben sure is:
[www.collectiondx.com]



They seem DIRT-cheap for what you get: crazy-high quality sculpt, paint, and durability. The only issues seem to be sparse accessories...and the body netting could have been executed a little better on the 1/4 ones (the nets are just painted on the 1/12 ones).
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Sanjeev
Wait--what was wrong with those khaki-colored button-down short sleeves in 0083? They seemed kinda generic...but not exactly non-functional...

Yeah, the khaki-styled 0083 uniforms do have a kind of realism lacking in superrobot cartoons. I particularly liked the blue MS-pilot jackets. Maybe Mr. Crush is referring to the more fabulous outfits worn by characters like Quattro Vagina in the original series?

Regarding the Neca Predator figures, the collectibles shop by my house had a batch of these, and they look well sculpted, but live-action and monster were never really my thing, as far as toys.

Anyway, I recently bought my first DCUC figure, and...why have I not gotten into these sooner?

Here are my favorite DC and Marvel heroes, respectively. Apparently, I have a thing for red and yellow.



I understand that both are supposed to be 6 inch figures, but the DC figure is much more substantial, and is just a lot better in a lot of ways.

The Marvel figure is okay, and I overlooked a lot simply because of who the character is, but having both in hand really highlights a lot of what I don't like about the Marvel Legends-styled builds. Yeah, the Marvel figures may have more articulation, but kind of like a car with 350HP, I really can't use it all anyway without breaking something.

The hips balls in particular are awkward to pose with, and lend a Revoltingtech quality to the IM figure, making more natural, non-hyperactive poses difficult. The joints also have a really stiff ratcheting quality, which I normally like, but which when used with the soft, flexible plastic that IM is made of, makes for some strenuating posing.

The one, and only area that the Marvel figure wins in is paint apps QC. You don't get random paint bleeds with the Marvel fig (is that a menstrual spot on the back of Firestorm's boot?).



Other than bad paint, though, the Firestorm figure is just sculpted so much better than the ML figure. The protruding balls on the hips and the extremely narrow torso are design glitches on the IM that make the sculptwork of the Four Horseman seem even more impressive (or maybe it's because I like Firestorm that much more).





Edited 4 time(s). Last edit at 03/28/2013 08:02PM by gingaio.
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I guess another reason I dig the Firestorm figure so much more is that, despite being part of the "DC Universe Classics" line, to me, this Firestorm is really a modern Super Powers figure, and the Super Powers figs still stand as the pinnacle of vintage superhero toy design, with the modern update carrying on the tradition admirably.



Speaking of standing, my test for action figure coolness is not the one-legged head-kick pose, but the standing at attention pose. You can clearly see that the Firestorm figure handles this much better.





Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 03/28/2013 08:04PM by gingaio.
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gingaio
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Sanjeev
Wait--what was wrong with those khaki-colored button-down short sleeves in 0083? They seemed kinda generic...but not exactly non-functional...

Yeah, the khaki-styled 0083 uniforms do have a kind of realism lacking in superrobot cartoons. I particularly liked the blue MS-pilot jackets. Maybe Mr. Crush is referring to the more fabulous outfits worn by characters like Quattro Vagina in the original series?

At first I thought you guys were talking about the jackets with the belts in them.



Because, you know, belts are important for holding your jackets up.

But not it seems like you guys are talking about this one:



Which was cool enough for Luke to wear to Yoda's pajama party, so, why not? I'm in.



Seriously though, kids 'round here wear jackets like that all the time. Which means that Zigged Zeons are either really cutting edge fashionistas or they buy in bulk from Old Commie Navy.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 03/29/2013 05:26AM by Gcrush.
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gingaio
Anyway, the last couple of days, I've been obsessively staring at the pics on this page in my work-procrastination: [www.actionfigureinsider.com]

The Super Powers line holds a fond place in my childhood memories. I may have to start picking up some DCUC figs...

I've been singing the gospel for years now. Based on your initial reaction to the Good Word, I was about to accuse you of flip-flopping - but to the right camp. Then I looked over the post again and, frankly, Mr. Sneeze isn't the best example of how DCUC reincarnated Super Powers. No. Far better is Brainiac. Or the new(ish) Penguin.

Indeed, Firestorm is badass. But I like the blaxsploitation version a bit more.

As for DCUC vs. ML... Both suck. ML has those awful sliced pepperoni limbs and horrid hip joints. DCUC had QC that would pull the fillings from your teeth. Yet I'm not yanking them from my shelves anytime soon.
Also, NECA's Predator 2 figures satisfy me based on my affections for the old Kenner Predator figures which I not so secretly always wanted to actually be from at least one of the fucking movies. Anyway, it now appears NECA is going to start updating those Kenner designs. Badass.
mcfitch (Admin)
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gingaio





Look out Tony! He's gonna throw down the Camel Clutch!
-Mason

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Matthewalt "I actually kinda LIKE that approach! You know: let's make a TOY. Remember those? Products designed to be played with without breaking? DO YOU REMEMBER, LOVE?!"



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 03/29/2013 09:52AM by mcfitch.
Sanjeev (Admin)
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gingaio
...the Super Powers figs still stand as the pinnacle of vintage superhero toy design, with the modern update carrying on the tradition admirably.

I was always partial to Marvel's Secret Wars line. They lacked the Super Powers' chop-socky gimmicks, but they came with those groovy lenticular shields. GROOVY, I TELL YOU. But then again, I'm biased--I've never been a big DC fan beyond Batman...

As for the more modern toys, it's tough to compare the old ToyBiz Marvel Legends to pretty much anything sculpted by the Horsemen! Those dudes are pretty amazing. Just a shame that the DCUC figures have such horrid QC...especially when a company like NECA is putting out such flawless toys for around the same pricepoint.

And speaking of NECA...

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Gcrush
Also, NECA's Predator 2 figures satisfy me based on my affections for the old Kenner Predator figures which I not so secretly always wanted to actually be from at least one of the fucking movies. Anyway, it now appears NECA is going to start updating those Kenner designs. Badass.

^^YES. I still like the Kenner line because they're just plain fun and leave so much to the imagination...but the fact that NECA is offering such great throwback designs fills me with fanboy lust.
Bought my first "deluxe" superhero toys in a long while: New 52 Batman and Batgirl from the new Mattel "Batman Unlimited" line.

[www.bigbadtoystore.com]

LOVE these. Sculpting and articulation are terrific, great paint applications, just fun. No accessories, but who needs 'em anyway? Now really looking forward to the Frank Miller Batman, and might just have to pick up the Planet X version:

[www.bigbadtoystore.com]

Best, Ken-A
Isn't that the new Marvel Legends (Ironman legends, whatever) Iron man that Gingaio is featuring getting beat up by Firestorm? Not that it matters, the 4H sculpt still rules.

I almost picked up that Batgirl from the Batman Unlimited line, but that neck looked gigantic. And now I'll never see her in a store again...
Sanjeev (Admin)
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fujishig
Isn't that the new Marvel Legends (Ironman legends, whatever) Iron man that Gingaio is featuring getting beat up by Firestorm?

Oops! Probably. I was confusing it with these guys (which I had way back).
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Sanjeev
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fujishig
Isn't that the new Marvel Legends (Ironman legends, whatever) Iron man that Gingaio is featuring getting beat up by Firestorm?

Oops! Probably. I was confusing it with these guys (which I had way back).

Yeah, I know. Those were great (except for Toad), and even though they're really outdated by now, I can still remember seeing them in the store and being really impressed. Little did I know that they'd be the hardest things to collect (even when I was going after every release agressively, I completely missed at least a couple of waves... I never did find Deadpool and Doop).

I gave up on the scale when Hasbro did (or around when they did the Fin Fang Foom wave that cost like 20 bucks a piece), and avoided even the exclusives they put out here and there because they had completely abandoned the series. Then they came back, I couldn't find jack, and didn't start up again. But that damned Iron Monger pulled me back in...
Speaking of Batman action figures.... anyone else kind of excited about the upcoming figs based off of the 60's TV show? They all look pretty darn good, including a dead on Cesar Romero Joker and a Batman doing that dance thing (Batusi?). I'd love to have an Adam West version Bats and Dick Ward version Robin with a to scale Batmobile...
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Sanjeev wrote:
I was always partial to Marvel's Secret Wars line. They lacked the Super Powers' chop-socky gimmicks, but they came with those groovy lenticular shields. GROOVY, I TELL YOU. But then again, I'm biased--I've never been a big DC fan beyond Batman...

I dug the Marvel characters a lot more, too, but from a pure toy perspective, I think Kenner did more justice to its superhero figures, ha ha, with its Super Powers line. The sculpting is more varied and spot-on, whereas Mattel couldn't even be bothered to give capes to Magneto and Dr. Doom (?!), and the bodies all looked the same. I very much liked the two Spider-Man figs, and of course, Iron Man. But some people--including me--still believe that the Super Powers renditions of characters like Superman and Batman are up there as being among the best figural representations of all time. I don't think the same could be said about the Secret Wars figs, but that's just my opinion.

Clearly, a lot of people feel otherwise...[www.toyark.com]

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KenA wrote:
Bought my first "deluxe" superhero toys in a long while: New 52 Batman and Batgirl from the new Mattel "Batman Unlimited" line.

Yeah, they use the DC Classics buck, which is just really strong, much better than the Marvel 6" bodies. The Penguin is great...a straight-up deluxe modern update of the Super Powers figure. A Penguin was previously released in the Classics line, but this one is in the correct vintage colors and has the correct face.

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Mr. Crush wrote:
I've been singing the gospel for years now. Based on your initial reaction to the Good Word, I was about to accuse you of flip-flopping - but to the right camp. Then I looked over the post again and, frankly, Mr. Sneeze isn't the best example of how DCUC reincarnated Super Powers. No. Far better is Brainiac. Or the new(ish) Penguin.

I admit to not giving enough attention to the figures in the line when you mentioned it, but yeah, I think I focused too much on the Sneeze figure as an example of the line. It just doesn't live up to expectations. As I mentioned back then, the vintage colors are an inspired choice, but putting them on a Sneeze figure that has little to do with the vintage figure is just lazy. Having owned the original-colors version of that Sneeze figure, I can say it's not as fun and evolved as the current Classics figs.

I've seen the light.

And the Brainiac is wonderful. Combines the Terminator flavor of the vintage figure with all the fun that the Classics styling provides.





Despite the mind-numbingly bad QC (I was expecting it, given how the Loincloth Lenny line turned out, but the DC line takes QC shittery to a new level), I'm still digging this line. Almost done gathering up the Super Powers team...



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Sanjeev (Admin)
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gingaio
I dug the Marvel characters a lot more, too, but from a pure toy perspective, I think Kenner did more justice to its superhero figures, ha ha, with its Super Powers line. The sculpting is more varied and spot-on, whereas Mattel couldn't even be bothered to give capes to Magneto and Dr. Doom (?!), and the bodies all looked the same. I very much liked the two Spider-Man figs, and of course, Iron Man. But some people--including me--still believe that the Super Powers renditions of characters like Superman and Batman are up there as being among the best figural representations of all time. I don't think the same could be said about the Secret Wars figs, but that's just my opinion.

^^I actually agree with all of the above. From a purely toyetic perspective, the Super Powers line was superior. I, too, lamented the lack of capes on Magneto and techno-Doom (though his raygun was snazzy!). But again, for me, it was more about the characters...as my childhood imagination more than made up for the toys' shortcomings.

Funny that you mention Braniac--I don't know much about the character from the comics, so I don't know how he "should" look, but the original Super Powers figure always looked "right" to me. The new one seems kinda meh.
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Sanjeev
Funny that you mention Braniac--I don't know much about the character from the comics, so I don't know how he "should" look, but the original Super Powers figure always looked "right" to me. The new one seems kinda meh.

I bet it's the lack of chrome. It really made the vintage figure pop. The quality of the (new) toy is something that can be better appreciated in person. For me, the way the joints are designed with the DC Classics figs is just so much more clever and smooth than the way joints on other modern figures work...Revoltechs, Marvel Legends, etc.

Granted, that's only when the joints aren't subjected to Mattel's shitty QC.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 04/01/2013 06:35PM by gingaio.
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gingaio
I bet it's the lack of chrome. It really made the vintage figure pop. The quality of the (new) toy is something that can be better appreciated in person. For me, the way the joints are designed with the DC Classics figs is just so much more clever and smooth than the way joints on other modern figures work...Revoltechs, Marvel Legends, etc.

Granted, that's only when the joints aren't subjected to Mattel's shitty QC.

Mattel's QC on the DCUC line was always rotten, and much of it related to design choices. There were some DCUC figures where the clearances on the joints were such that they would sheer themselves off just by being moved. Other times the materials were so soft or so brittle that the same thing would happen. Then there would be frozen joints. (When the joints did work, I was still left cold by the ugly mid-thigh swivel and the lack of rocker ankles to complement the lateral hip movement.) I'd say the QC gremlin victimized me at least 50% of the time.

But at least the paint was usually good, and the sculpts were most definitely retro-modern. Lovingly so, in fact.
I love me some DC, so I loved the DCUC line. Matty even did a crappy 3 3/4 Infinite Heroes line to emphasize how lucky we were to have the bigger figures. Lots of obscure characters. Then came the distribution problem (always seems to happen with wave 2). Scalpers start picking these up and selling stuff for double or triple retail. Then a weird thing happens and the average price of these shoots to the moon... when these started hitting 20 bucks a piece, at retail, I started buying some of the ones I missed from scalpers on Amazon because the scalper prices were actually the same as a new figure. Then they release waves including rainbow lantern redecos that nobody asked for, and Super Powers figures that only hardcore fans remember. Now it's more than 20 bucks for a figure (including shipping) and I have to subscribe without knowing exactly what I'm going to get in the course of a year. Oh, hey, we promised people an oversized figure, let's use one of our old CnC bucks and make characters big for absolutely no reason!

I got my Legion set, and while I'd like another I'm happy with it. After being underwhelmed with more than half the figures in last year's sub, I may be out. I'm certainly not spending 20 bucks a pop on new 52 designs (well, unless they just look awesome, like that Hawkman... darnit, they got me again!)



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 04/02/2013 02:19PM by fujishig.
That Legion set looked pretty interesting. I always dug the Wildfire design.

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Mr. Crush
Mattel's QC on the DCUC line was always rotten, and much of it related to design choices. There were some DCUC figures where the clearances on the joints were such that they would sheer themselves off just by being moved. Other times the materials were so soft or so brittle that the same thing would happen. Then there would be frozen joints. (When the joints did work, I was still left cold by the ugly mid-thigh swivel and the lack of rocker ankles to complement the lateral hip movement.) I'd say the QC gremlin victimized me at least 50% of the time.

But at least the paint was usually good, and the sculpts were most definitely retro-modern. Lovingly so, in fact.

My QC fail rate so far is at 20%. One figure had a stuck right hip (neither the icebox nor hot-water treatment worked), and another figure has a really flaccid bicep swivel. The percentage is on par with my Loincloth Lenny experience.

And this is not counting the paint gremlins. Just about every figure, and I mean just about every figure, has sloppy paint to varying degrees. The yellow T on my Red Tornado looks like it was painted by a deranged chimp, except instead of using a paintbrush, the chimp swiped in its rage-delirium the action figure's chest with the severed finger of a red colobus that it had hunted and dipped in its own death-throes yellow vomit.

The lack of rocker ankles does suck, though I'm more forgiving of the thigh swivel. Sure, it's not the prettiest way to articulate the leg, but it's a hell of a lot easier to play with than the ball-hip method Hasbro used for the Marvel Legend figures, and less ugly to boot.

Green Arrow is another really nice update. You can see the effect of the thigh swivel--it's definitely not smooth, aesthetically, but for me, it simplifies posing and helps to somewhat compensate for the lack of rocker ankles:



Also, here's a cool little featurette on the Super Powers line. The Mark Waid story about hunting down Cyborg is neat:

[www.youtube.com]

And speaking of Cyborg, this is one figure that I will not add to my modern Super Powers collection. Even as a child, I could sense that something was wrong about this character design:



Can someone please explain to me why his cybernetic uniform consisted of a female bathing suit, opera gloves, and thigh-high boots?

WTF were Wolfman/Perez thinking?



Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 04/03/2013 01:46AM by gingaio.
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It was the 80s... Ropin was still wearing his short shorts, Starfire was (and still is) in a bikini, Wondergirl had a red leotard with little stars, and Changeling had a Doom Patrol outfit. Then when Robin wanted to grow up he graduated to the gigantic disco collar. And then you have Jericho. I mean, I loved Perez and Wolfman on Teen Titans but...
Short-shorts is one thing, and every dude who's ever had PE can sympathize, and skimpy clothes on female characters is a perennial. But with Cyborg, Wolfman/Perez had him wearing, in a pretty non-subtle way, women's clothing...
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gingaio
Short-shorts is one thing, and every dude who's ever had PE can sympathize, and skimpy clothes on female characters is a perennial. But with Cyborg, Wolfman/Perez had him wearing, in a pretty non-subtle way, women's clothing...

I always thought it was a wife-beater tanktop. Which may be just as offensive.
Cyborg is a Black Man Quadrouple Amputee in a Sleeve-less Metal Leotard. And every single one of those words is fabulously dee-licious and perfectly inscrutable in terms of 1980s aesthetics. Plus, he's like one of a half-dozen black action figures from DC - none of which were women, so his costume helps to compensate for that.

Unrelated, here is a line from Cyborg's biography on Wikipedia proving why, shiny unitard or not, superheros still suck:

"Eventually, [Cyborg's] mind was restored by an alien race of computer intelligences called the Technis, created from the sexual union of Swamp Thing and a machine-planet when Swamp Thing was travelling through space."

Man, comics suck so fucking bad.
That's only because of being sticklers for continuity; basically everything anyone's ever written in an official capacity for the big two has to either be explained or accounted for, until it becomes such a big mess that they hit the reset button. Some two bit hack hates a character you grew up with, so uncerermoniously kills him off to prove how awesome his new character is, and then when a new writer comes along they undo that, and so on and so forth. In Cyborg's case it was that he was underpowered and needed an upgrade or written out or somesuch nonsense, and they just had to tie it in with some other story nobody remembers.
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fujishig
That's only because of being sticklers for continuity; basically everything anyone's ever written in an official capacity for the big two has to either be explained or accounted for, until it becomes such a big mess that they hit the reset button.

Which is why I hate superhero comics. Also, the sexual union between a space traveling Swamp Thing and some machine planet? Ugh. I can't even respect an industry where that idea is green-lit. It must be absolutely soul-killing to work in it.

I'll take the brutal integrity of Axe Cop over that shit any day.
Sanjeev (Admin)
Yeah...but even if Axe Cop possesses brutal integrity (and even if it were...y'know...good!), it's still "just" a story in a vacuum. I say "just" not as a dis...but more just to differentiate it from superhero comics. I mean, it's really apples and oranges.

So I don't mean to rehash our "do superhero comics really suck" argument, but let me reframe it as a question: is it possible to have a good LINE of comics (superhero or otherwise) with a rich history and settings with a cast of characters that potentially go back a long with with varied interactions? To me, THAT is what makes superhero comics.

Swamp Thing fucked a planet? Oh well...maybe it was actually a fun comic! Either way, most comic fans tout Swamp Thing as one of the better titles out there (I haven't read any myself--I'm a Marvel guy). But you get my point: like many polytheistic mythologies, modern superhero comics often defy internal logic, contradict themselves, and just plain suck at times...but it's that whole mythos that makes them appealing.

So give me a LINE of books I can hop on board and pick up relatively quickly...that hopefully doesn't suck. Can such a thing exist?
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