Do superhero movies really suck?

Posted by Sanjeev 
Sanjeev Wrote:
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> Oh, I didn't know that. Right on. I'm not a huge
> fan of his (though I liked Firefly), but he can
> sure throw down some sick grammar.

I agree with the above. I can generally be pretty irritated by his "every character has the same sense of humor" thing, but there wasn't as much of that in Firefly. He does seem, however, to know how to get character interactions right.

More serious than thou
Sanjeev Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
>> That's cool that you dug it, Harvey. But for me,
> my favorite Cap stories were the more poignant,
> introspective ones...where his ideals were put to
> the test. Those storied humanized him in a way
> that always fascinated me enough to look past the
> blonde hair, blue eyes, and stars and stripes. And
> honestly, given the (relative) sophistication of
> the previous Marvel Studios movies, I was
> expecting that sort of treatment in this picture.
>

Yeah... maybe they missed an opportunity here. Instead of spending pretty much the entire time in WWII, they could have alternated a bit more between modern and 40's... Captain America dealing with the changes and regrets (like losing his love, who is now either dead or really really really old). And at the same time, have him get a little disillusioned by the moral ambiguity of our post 9-11, Corporate dominated world. But who are we kidding? Didn't people get pissed recently when Superman renounced his US citizenship in the comic books?



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 07/25/2011 01:32PM by H-man.
In making bold choices with established iconic heroes, you risk alienating the core audience. While I love the idea of Superman renouncing something that is part of the character's history, I don't buy it as much as I do the patriotic-to-a-fault Supes who went after the Dark Knight at Reagan's behest.

We saw Cap tonight. I was impressed with the overall look and feel, and loved the propaganda campaign... I didn't buy the female lead, who seemed kinda tacked on, complete with signature 90s I'm-a-woman-and-I-punched-a-guy-so-I'm-a-strong-character bullshit. She never once had her painted lips smudged, and had little more depth than the flirtatious lady who thanked A-head for the rest of the ladies of America. And it failed the Bechdel test. I am expecting Whedon's is more balanced.
I wasn't a fan of the original, but I thought they did a good job with the source material. However, and this may just be a flavour thing, but I couldn't really get on his emotional side because he wasn't really an individual... he just wanted to be like everybody else... like a football player.
What this movie lacked, for me, was a heroic journey of self-discovery, and that's why Thor moved me so much more.

I loved the Fondu bit, though.
<<Cap's only inner conflicts throughout the movie were his awkwardness around women and about two minutes of near-emotion when Bucky dies.>>

Never mind the pivotal moment where he realizes that he's been taking the easy way out by doing the monkey routine for the USO, and he had forsaken all of his beliefs for joining the military in the first place, in the process. But yeah...no real inner conflicts. ;)

I loved it....the uniform, the homage to all the other uniforms, the propaganda aspect, as mentioned above. The rescue of the Howlin' Commandos was a bit contrived, but I can live with it. I could have used more action. No way would I put Hulk or Thor above it (and I really liked Thor).

---------------------------------
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Sanjeev (Admin)
hillsy Wrote:
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> Never mind the pivotal moment where he realizes
> that he's been taking the easy way out...

There was a "moment" there? :P

> I could have used more action. No way would I
> put Hulk or Thor above it (and I really liked
> Thor).

Just as an aside, I don't get why people hate on Hulk so much. I wasn't super-impressed with the fight at the end against the Abomination, but the rest of the flick was solid. They managed to make the audience (well, ME anyway) actually care about (and feel sorry for) the main character. There was utterly none of that in Cap.

Y'know what scene drove me batty? When Stark shows Rogers the all the different high-tech shield designs, then he just reaches down to a lower shelf and picks up the plain round disk...that just happens to be vibranium. Oh, and utterly no background on the material (other than "rare" and "absorbs vibration")? Well played. Like a frontal lobotomy.
cae
"Vibranium"?!?

Oh, you can't make this stuff up ... you have to let others with much, much, much more time on their hands do so.

Sounds like I need to stay out of the theaters this summer ...

---------------------------------
hassenpfeffer
Sanjeev Wrote:
>
> Y'know what scene drove me batty? When Stark shows
> Rogers the all the different high-tech shield
> designs, then he just reaches down to a lower
> shelf and picks up the plain round disk...that
> just happens to be vibranium. Oh, and utterly no
> background on the material (other than "rare" and
> "absorbs vibration")? Well played. Like a frontal
> lobotomy.

I think we were supposed to interpret this as Stark not wanting Cap to use that shield, because he wanted to use the vibranium for something else.

And, I don't know, I can't see how they could've set aside any more time to explain vibranium, since they didn't even explain anything about the cosmic cube.

-Paul Segal

"Oh, the anger is never far, never far." -SteveH
Sanjeev (Admin)
asterphage Wrote:
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> ...since they didn't even explain anything about the
> cosmic cube.

Oh yeah...then there's that. :P
So, I just got back from seeing Cap with my brother, and we both loved it. I thought it was extremely competent, especially as a film that both told a solid story and was tasked with some serious world-building. It might not have been perfect, but I thought it was good. The pacing wasn't necessarily perfect, and I thought the action montage robbed us of a little bit of the payoff, but those were minor.

What I think First Avenger did extremely well is the exact same thing Iron Man 1 capitalized on. They managed to balance a metric fuck-ton of fan-wank with a very approachable jumping-on point for the greater universe they are building. Just like in Iron Man, they did an excellent job of re-appropriating recognizable elements from the comics in new and meaningful ways. The 'goodies' were all very well held together by what I found to be a stellar cast, full of nods seemingly meant just for me. Hugo Weaving played the Red Skull with superb aplomb, and I thought he had good (but maybe not great... yet) chemistry with Cap, who was also excellent on his own. The Howling Commandos had a great presence for their appearance, maybe excluding the above mentioned montage. Both Dr.'s were stellar. Howard Stark was great, and I can really see how that man created Tony and 'the Stark legacy'. Neil McDonough, a personal favorite of mine, seemed to have a riotously good time playing Dum Dum. To top it off, I could listen to Tommy Lee Jones read the phone book in his deadpan and walk away smiling.

It might not have been perfect in every way like Iron Man was, but I think it was very strong. I'm not sure I would have done the ending quite the same way, since it probably could have used a little more room to breathe, but that's a minor casualty for the sake of franchise setup. More to the point, I thought it was exactly the movie it needed to be. The after the credits trailer for the Avengers practically had me jumping out of my seat and cheering in excitement. I also really like the idea that we have kept the Cube a mostly undefined Mcguffin so far, partially because that's often what it was in the comics, and mostly because I think that will really pay off for the non-comic fans going to see Avengers and not having the whole plot laid out already in their heads.

Introducing Prometheus Rising Studio.
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I make 3D printed mecha action figures.
Sanjeev (Admin)
All in all, I'm quite surprised by all the tolerance people are showing towards this movie. I presume that a lot of it is folks allowing their love of the character to make up for any deficiencies in the film. That's fine; I do it all the time in other cases. Perhaps I'm just not as *long-time* a Cap fan as others (seeing as how "my" Cap is the modern intellectual version).

Again, it's cool. I'm glad some people here found value in the movie. I'm fine with disagreeing...but just for the fuck of it, allow me to retort. ;)


Prometheum5 Wrote:
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> So, I just got back from seeing Cap with my
> brother, and we both loved it. I thought it was
> extremely competent, especially as a film that
> both told a solid story and was tasked with some
> serious world-building.

I saw ZERO competence. Solid story? They never once explained what the Cosmic Cube was...let alone referred to it by name. I realize it's just a plot device, but Cap fighting the Third Reich was SUCH a paper-thin backdrop, what the hell else were we to latch onto? It just seemed like there was a lot of violence going on...for no concrete reason.

> It might not have been
> perfect, but I thought it was good. The pacing
> wasn't necessarily perfect, and I thought the
> action montage robbed us of a little bit of the
> payoff, but those were minor.

The pacing didn't bother me. I just kept looking at my watch, wondering when the movie was really going to start. The action montage was an...odd...choice, but I'm more annoyed by his fighting, in general. He frisbeed his shield, like, three fucking times. That's it. Captain America is supposed to be an Olympic-class gymnast, and that's how his fighting is supposed to look. Instead, he just sorta steam-rolled through everything while wearing a costume about half a size too big.

> What I think First Avenger did extremely well is
> the exact same thing Iron Man 1 capitalized on.
> They managed to balance a metric fuck-ton of
> fan-wank with a very approachable jumping-on point
> for the greater universe they are building. Just
> like in Iron Man, they did an excellent job of
> re-appropriating recognizable elements from the
> comics in new and meaningful ways.

What fan-wank was there that I missed? The mannequin of the original Human Torch at that World's Fair thing they went to? Ho-fucking-ray. I'd rather have a script featuring dialog that didn't seem like George Lucas wrote it.

As for it being an approachable jump for the average Moe, yeah, I guess. But then again, the average Moe went to all three Bayformers movies...and enjoyed them.


> The 'goodies'
> were all very well held together by what I found
> to be a stellar cast, full of nods seemingly meant
> just for me. Hugo Weaving played the Red Skull
> with superb aplomb, and I thought he had good (but
> maybe not great... yet) chemistry with Cap, who
> was also excellent on his own. The Howling
> Commandos had a great presence for their
> appearance, maybe excluding the above mentioned
> montage. Both Dr.'s were stellar. Howard Stark
> was great, and I can really see how that man
> created Tony and 'the Stark legacy'. Neil
> McDonough, a personal favorite of mine, seemed to
> have a riotously good time playing Dum Dum. To
> top it off, I could listen to Tommy Lee Jones read
> the phone book in his deadpan and walk away
> smiling.

Eh. I didn't *hate* the cast. But again, you can hire the greatest actors and actresses in the world, hand them an atrocious script, and watch it all crash and burn.

Hugo Weaving is great and he played a more than adequate Red Skull...but the quality of his part almost threw the putrefaction of everyone else's into even starker relief. I didn't have a problem with Chris Evans' Cap (except maybe for his costume designer), but he had ZERO chemistry with Red Skull...not bad, not good...just none. So I honestly have NO fucking idea what you're talking about. They barely exchanged any meaningful words except for the obligatory hero-villain platitudes...and there wasn't an ounce of emotion to be seen anywhere in the film.

The Commandos were good. Oh yeah...I guess that's a bit of fan-wank I forgot. But they got too little screen time.

Tommy Lee Jones played a donkey. He was a caricature of an American WWII commander...and I found that almost insulting. There really wasn't a single bit of the character one could take seriously. Sure, perhaps he wasn't meant to be taken seriously...but how was one supposed to be able to tell with such horribly inappropriate dialog.

And speaking of taking a character seriously, the love interest? Yikes. Speaking of shitty female archetypes in male-dominated pop culture...the soulless, unfun "straight woman" has seriously got to go.

Howard Stark. Terrible. Almost as buffoonish as Jones's character. This is now the third actor to play the elder Stark in as many Marvel Studios' movies...and this guy just seemed like a dufus, straight up and down. Putting this character next to Downey's younger Stark in my mind is damn near enough to pop a blood vessel in my brain.

I could critique the cast further, but I'll wrap it up with probably the worst offender: Bucky. Holy cousin of Krishna...what the FUCK were they thinking??? Bucky's death is considered one of the most poignant and defining moments in the history of the Marvel Universe. In this movie, Bucky's character was demoted to "callous dick older brother", disappeared, then eventually came back to be a (literally!) throw-away side character. His death in the film had almost NO impact whatsoever...and that's pretty fucking criminal.


> It might not have been perfect in every way like
> Iron Man was, but I think it was very strong. I'm
> not sure I would have done the ending quite the
> same way, since it probably could have used a
> little more room to breathe, but that's a minor
> casualty for the sake of franchise setup. More to
> the point, I thought it was exactly the movie it
> needed to be.

I can't really comment on the meh ending simply because, at this point, I was more interested in forcing the minute hand of my watch go faster with the sheer force of my will. "Not perfect in every way"? You ain't just whistling Dixie.

You realize Captain America is supposed to fight Nazis? How many swastikas did you see in that movie? Besides the recruitment drama in the beginning of the movie, there was almost no meaningful mention of Germany, the Allies, concentration camps, any geo-politics of the time, or anything else related to the Second World War. They may as well have had him fight random aliens in the future.

> The after the credits trailer for
> the Avengers practically had me jumping out of my
> seat and cheering in excitement. I also really
> like the idea that we have kept the Cube a mostly
> undefined Mcguffin so far, partially because
> that's often what it was in the comics, and mostly
> because I think that will really pay off for the
> non-comic fans going to see Avengers and not
> having the whole plot laid out already in their
> heads.

I enjoyed the Avengers trailer as well, I suppose. I still hold out hope for it. But I'm still annoyed by the lack of definition of the Cube. Cap obviously wasn't fighting Nazis or otherwise taking part in any sort of *actual* WWII-related combat for the Allies...so what was the point of the movie again? This glowing Rubik's cube that magically gives Hydra laser rifles? C'mon...

Oh, and the Cube WAS defined just fine in the comics.

But again, I think Avengers will be good because they're obviously retconning the Cube into something tying in with Asgard (which is appropriate given the plot for these movies). We'll see...
I'm no big Cap reader or fan past having him as the leader of the Avengers either, but there were still tons of winks and nods that I caught as only a casual Cap observer. Stuff like Arim Zola first appearing on the TV screen made me smile, and the Stark Expo was really neat to see in its original form. I suppose the fact that Cap wasn't directly knocking out SS soldiers is just too much of a change for some people, but I thought the way they handled it was the next best thing. The Marvel-verse movies just aren't that serious, and having Cap liberate a concentration camp might have been a bit heavy for the tone of the greater franchise so far. That's not to say that I don't think a serious business Cap war movie couldn't be amazing, but I don't think it would work in the Marvel movie-verse as well. I thought Tommy Lee Jones brought just the right level of witty humor to the film to make it feel pretty similar to Iron Man, which is a good standard to imitate.

As an alternative to the SS, I thought Hydra was good. They had a lot of silly 40's future tech that felt really reminiscent of a lot of Cap stories, like the flying wings and the oversized tanks. If you were looking, you could really tell that whoever did the tech for the movie knew his accurate German equipment well to base everything off of.

It did stand out when the one Nazi Party guy was at the Red Skull's base, and we saw the red band on the sleeve of his uniform, but never the implied swastika, but again, I don't think it's that big a deal. There were a lot of kids in the theater when we went, and I think Cap did a much better job of balancing being a kid-friendly superhero movie with being complex enough to continue building towards what is every adult comic fan's wet dream. It especially did a better job of balancing fun and serious than any of the Transformers movies did, since you seem inclined to stick with that comparison.

Bucky probably wasn't the best, and I agree his death seemed a little quick, but he hadn't been that built up to begin with, so I think a drawn out death would have jarred against Bucky's more minimal role.

And there were one or two scenes where the suit looked too big around the shoulders, but it was probably that way so he could move. I liked that he fought like a freight train rather than an acrobat, because it made sense. This Cap didn't have the luxury of time to train to olympian levels. This was a Cap who was in the right place at the right time to make his own personal contribution to the war. I thought the propaganda role stuff was smart, and appreciated the way they worked in the first comic, and how that role gave Cap a lot of motivation to do more.

Introducing Prometheus Rising Studio.
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I make 3D printed mecha action figures.
Prometheum5 Wrote:
>
> As an alternative to the SS, I thought Hydra was
> good. They had a lot of silly 40's future tech
> that felt really reminiscent of a lot of Cap
> stories, like the flying wings and the oversized
> tanks. If you were looking, you could really tell
> that whoever did the tech for the movie knew his
> accurate German equipment well to base everything
> off of.

The tanks and planes resembled real Nazi experiments, yes (I loved the rocket-copter escape pod). But the Hydra goons who composed the majority of the "bad guy" presence in the movie didn't really look like anything to me. Their uniforms were the most generic "sorta-Nazi because it has a lot of black and a helmet" motif, like something out of G.I. Joe: Sgt. Savage. The Cube-powered weapons just looked like generic contemporary sci-fi fluff, without even an attempt to look retro. Those big Hydra dudes with the flamethrower hands were the worst - their equipment doesn't look very functional, and the time Cap fights one on the train felt like nothing other than a video game boss fight.

Also, I agree with Sanjeev that it's ridiculous how they whitewashed the actual facts of World War II out of the backdrop of the movie's story - but I'm not outraged by it, just disappointed. It seems likely to me that they did it this way in order to make the movie easier to sell internationally. The fact that the character is inextricable from his name and his star-spangled costume probably already made the international release touchy - I think they probably dialed back the real-world political and military history just enough to make it an easier sell to foreign audiences who don't intrinsically care about American or European history.

What bothered me more than the removal of swastikas was the portrayal of the Skull as some kind of renegade Nazi, someone so reckless and ruthless that even Hitler's pissed off at him. Skull's staging his own invasions, funnelling prisoners into his own factories... and yet there's really no attempt made to distinguish Skull's ideology or goals from the Nazis'. The little rhetoric that we hear from Skull is mostly about how he himself (and Rogers, in their couple of confrontations) are superior to normal humans - in effect, his brand of Nazism substitutes actual superhumans for the "superiority" of the Nordic race. His goals, in turn, seem to be identical to the Nazis', except that he's carrying them out in a more flamboyant, immediate and direct way, with his one-man bombing mission of the entire eastern United States. What bothers me is that it's a distinction without a difference - Skull's character is just an interpolation of the most basic Nazi concepts with the most obvious cliches of supervillainy, and no attempt is made within the story to justify why they're separating him from the greater Nazi organization.

-Paul Segal

"Oh, the anger is never far, never far." -SteveH
It's super lame that this movie does not feature Captain American punching Hitler. I honestly never cared much for Captain America when I was a comic-reading kid, but the idea of setting it in World War II with Cap kicking SS ass was a fun idea. Now that I know it's not that, I'm not really interested.

-Ginrai
Golden Gate Riot on dead trees at: [www.destroyallcomics.com]



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 08/01/2011 06:51PM by Ginrai.
Sanjeev (Admin)
asterphage Wrote:
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> I'm not outraged by it, just disappointed.

That's my take on the movie, as a whole. Such missed opportunity...

And this was an interesting read. Somewhat lofty...but certainly valid as a "what could have been" analysis.
Sanjeev Wrote:
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> asterphage Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> > I'm not outraged by it, just disappointed.
>
> That's my take on the movie, as a whole. Such
> missed opportunity...
>
> And this was an interesting read. Somewhat
> lofty...but certainly valid as a "what could have
> been" analysis.



I guess I just don't see at all why people would complain about First Avenger not being the movie described in that article when you look at it in the context of the Marvel movie-verse franchise. I mean, in four previous Marvel-verse films, they have set a pretty consistent and successful tone and MO, so why would you expect something completely different?

Introducing Prometheus Rising Studio.
[prometheusrising.net]
I make 3D printed mecha action figures.
"what could have been" is just a way for nerds to jerk off to their own fanfics
Sanjeev (Admin)
Prometheum5 Wrote:
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> I guess I just don't see at all why people would
> complain about First Avenger not being the movie
> described in that article when you look at it in
> the context of the Marvel movie-verse franchise.
> I mean, in four previous Marvel-verse films, they
> have set a pretty consistent and successful tone
> and MO, so why would you expect something
> completely different?


Well, I wasn't expecting something like what was described in the article. Again, pretty lofty. BUT I woulda liked *something* a little more conscious than what we got.

Haha...what fascinates me about our two completely different takes is that we're making very similar observations...but interpreting them as ABSOLUTELY different as can be! I totally agree: the first four movies set a consistent and successful tone and MO. Cap sorta flushed that tone and MO right down the drain! :P

In the Iron Man flicks, we saw a dickhead Tony Stark get reality slapped into his head, and he ultimately learned to be a hero. In Thor, we saw an emotional would-be king get exiled for being too human (a luxury not afforded to kings), and he ultimately learned responsibility. In Incredible Hulk, we saw a man leading a truly tragic life...and yet not give up. In Cap, we were just sorta told the dude was a hero...and to just go with it. Meh.

Andrew, did you read the article? It didn't really smack of nerds and fanfics.
I had zero expectations for Cap'n 'Merica as a film. I have literally never read a single CA or Avengers comic. All I knew was that he was the doofiest looking "super hero" ever with his trailer-trash chic Old Glory Renaissance Fair Jester Suit. Anyway.

I liked the period setting and was glad they left out the overt Nazi bits. Why? Because fuck Nazis. I don't care if they were integral to the original comic (which I've never read). They are the most over-played, no-effort choice for cinematic villains. Ever. And while the movie didn't distinguish HYDRA from Nazis philosophy per se, it did a reasonable job of showing HYDRA to be a more dangerous splinter group. And if the gub'ment only has ONE super soldier, why waste him fighting ordinary Nazis? They wouldn't. And didn't in the film. Instead, the reserved him for Super Nazis. That's reasonable.

I also thought Caps' brand of heroism and dilemmas were far more sincere than any other comic movie hero yet. Simply because he was earnest in his sacrifice even before he had powers. At first, he's too ordinary to matter and then he's suddenly too important to be used. He's struggling to embody the best aspects of society while at the same time society is preventing him from doing so by marginalizing him. When he finally says, "Fuck you!" to society and strikes out, it eventually causes a man-who-had-nothing-to-begin-with to then loose everything in his life. By contrast, Royal Pretty Boy Thor's heroic moments began when he apologized to a Norse robot and then had to kick his brother's ass. And Rich Pretty Boy Iron Man? I'm still not sure what he did. Made an element? Did he even quit drinking? Those doods' senses of heroism and conviction were like an errant child's; Cap's were like a blue-collar single dad getting steamrolled by life because he's trying to do the right thing. That's some fucking pathos right there.

Lastly, I was especially glad they didn't explain the cosmic cube. It doesn't become a MacGuffin until you have exposition on what it does. And as soon as you explain it you paint yourself into a corner. Too many sci-fi movies come off looking absurd this way. Jurassic Park is the worst - 30% of that fucking film is nonsensical flim-flam about "Why There Are Dinosaurs In This Movie About Dinosaurs". The cosmic cube? It's pretty clear that it's being used as a giant battery to supply power to super-destructive weapons; a superior concept compared to Iron Man "making a new element" by studying his dad's hamfisted version of the Davinci Code for Science Majors.

Speaking of Papa Stark, the goofy portrayal of that character lent an interesting dimension to Tony's character. As in, perhaps the sense of Omnipotent Workaholic Daddy that Tony carries around is entirely his issue. Just because your dad ain't around when you're growing up doesn't mean he's a super genius business man, even if he is successful at what he does. "Get over it, Tony. No matter how self-important you feel, your relationship with your dad is pretty ordinary, you narcissistic fuck." Also, it would be cool if Tony turned out to be the lovechild of Papa Stark and Cap's Girlfriend when the former consoled the latter after Cap was put on ice. Ha!

Things I hated included the action montage and bad makeup. I suppose the montage was necessary, given how those scenes represented taking out all those HYDRA bases. But they were largely indistinguishable. The boss battle on the train was bogglingly dumb. "Sandwich Captain America between a pair of flamethrowers. And make it on a train." Tactical fucking genius right there. Cap's costume was so-so, like patriotically themed riding gear; the helmet design looked off to me. Could have been worse. But the makeup on Red Skull was awful. Just awful. He looked like Jim Carey with more prominent cheekbones and an angry skin tone. Too cartoony and not repulsive enough. The bad guy from Who Framed Roger Rabbit was more realistic and more menacing.

Aside from the above, I thought it was the most accessible, self-aware, and sincere Marvel superhero film yet.
Sanjeev (Admin)
What's more polarizing: Captain America or Bayformers? ;)


Gcrush Wrote:
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> ...and an angry
> skin tone.

Racist.

:P
Sanjeev Wrote:
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> Racist.

Wait, isn't the proper term for my prejudice "cartoonist"?
Sanjeev (Admin)
Call it what you like, but I'm on to you!
Sanjeev Wrote:
>
> In the Iron Man flicks, we saw a dickhead Tony
> Stark get reality slapped into his head, and he
> ultimately learned to be a hero. In Thor, we saw
> an emotional would-be king get exiled for being
> too human (a luxury not afforded to kings), and he
> ultimately learned responsibility. In Incredible
> Hulk, we saw a man leading a truly tragic
> life...and yet not give up. In Cap, we were just
> sorta told the dude was a hero...and to just go
> with it. Meh.

I don't really agree with that - I think they had the same type of growth for Cap, it was just accelerated and abbreviated. The character arc for cap essentially started when they put him in the propaganda stage show, and ended when the actual soldiers booed him. He lost his determination to be a real soldier when the brass told him he could do more good as a symbol - then he regained his determination when he saw the state of the war effort and the struggle the men out there were facing. His journey from weakling to athletic artificial Adonis, and his drive to save Bucky and comrades, didn't even really enter into the character development.

-Paul Segal

"Oh, the anger is never far, never far." -SteveH
Sanjeev (Admin)
I guess the abbreviation and acceleration made killed the effect for me...but yeah. It wasn't from lack of trying...just ineptitude.
Sanjeev Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Call it what you like, but I'm on to you!


Dood! Some of my best friends are redders. And they said I could use that word because I'm cool.

Besides, they talk like that all the time anyway, and they red asses is about as red as red can be.
Sanjeev (Admin)
Yeah, well your "friends" may say that...but you go popping that shit in front of Mekanda, you'll get a fucking shark kicked into your face...
Sanjeev Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Yeah, well your "friends" may say that...but you
> go popping that shit in front of Mekanda, you'll
> get a fucking shark kicked into your face...

I'm sick of all this fucking shark talk.

More serious than thou
Sanjeev (Admin)
I'm sorry. I'm just moe for shark-fucking.
On a kind of related topic... has anyone caught the Anime versions of "Iron Man" and "Wolverine" that's been airing on G-4 on Friday nights? From what I've seen so far, it's a very "meh" bag.. perhaps only "Iron Man" faring slightly better than Wolvie because...well... the Iron Man and baddie mechs fit well within the anime style for obvious reasons. But otherwise, this is looking to be a cool idea in concept but poor in execution. The plan is 4 episodes each of Iron Man, Wolverine, and then Blade and X-men.
Mr. Crush wrote:
>I also thought Caps' brand of heroism and dilemmas were far more sincere than
>any other comic movie hero yet. Simply because he was earnest in his sacrifice
>even before he had powers. At first, he's too ordinary to matter and then he's
>suddenly too important to be used. He's struggling to embody the best aspects
>of society while at the same time society is preventing him from doing so by
>marginalizing him. When he finally says, "Fuck you!" to society and strikes
>out, it eventually causes a man-who-had-nothing-to-begin-with to then loose
>everything in his life. By contrast, Royal Pretty Boy Thor's heroic moments
>began when he apologized to a Norse robot and then had to kick his brother's
>ass. And Rich Pretty Boy Iron Man? I'm still not sure what he did. Made an
>element? Did he even quit drinking? Those doods' senses of heroism and
>conviction were like an errant child's; Cap's were like a blue-collar single
>dad getting steamrolled by life because he's trying to do the right thing.
>That's some fucking pathos right there.

Finally got around to watching Captain America, and Mr. Crush pretty much nailed why it's for me easily the best Marvel Studios movie I've seen so far. The others aren't even close. The other ones (Iron Man, Thor, Hulk) were clever, but never had any believable characterizations or palpable pathos. It's ironic because in the comics, Captain America was the most wooden and one-dimensional of these characters.

In the movie, he's still a very simple character, but at least he's drawn sincerely and engagingly and believably. You go down the line and just about everything's better in this movie than in the other ones--the token female character actually has stuff to do and is way more interesting than the ones in the other movies (Portman was awful and Paltrow is annoying). The set-up is great (the interactions between Cap and Dr. Erskine are really well done) and the pacing is tight, and even the boss battle is handled decently (I dreaded the boss battles in all the other movies). The one distinct feeling I can recall from the other movies was occasional boredom, but this flick was entertaining all the way through.

And I watched it totally expecting it to suck more than the others.

Harvey--I've seen a few episodes of the Iron Man anime and was really disappointed. I'm not even going to get near that Wolverine one.
Yikes.... so many things wrong with that Wolverine one... and that it's loosely based off of the classic Claremont/Miller mini-series makes it all the more woeful...
Hah.....Sanjeev is on crack.

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Don't make me fly out there and kick a fucking shark at you...
Not superhero, but comic based- did anyone catch Cowboys and Aliens? I just sat through it, and I kinda can't believe how dull it was. You had James Bond, Han Solo, and Number 13 reenacting Independence Day, and somehow it was totally boring. Boyd Crowder from Justified even made an appearance, so you had all the chops to make a proper western, or something closer to Justified, but all we got was snoozeville. James Bond didn't even start pretending to be a cowboy until an hour in, when the stereotypical Injuns gave him his cowboy memory back.

Plus, PG13 naked Olivia Wild SUCKS.

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Cowboys and Aliens was solid until the aliens showed up. I wanted to see the movie about Daniel Craig and Paul Dano being driven off to stand trial together. After the first alien attack, though, it just left me blank. Nothing about the story seemed necessary or essential.

Here's what I wish the movie had been about:
The aliens would not be aliens, but humans from a galactic civilization. The Old West would not be the Old West, but a forgotten colony planet, isolated from the rest of human civilization. Daniel Craig would be some kind of android or superhuman or something, an agent of the galaxy people, who was supposed to be memory-wiped and jettisoned into space, but he managed to escape after the memory wipe, steal a weapon, and make it safely to the surface of the planet, where he then wandered around as an outlaw. The movie would begin just before the galaxy people catch up with him.

The basic idea has been done plenty of times before in prose sci-fi and in anime (and sort of in Firefly, though that series is about a hundred other things at the same time), but I'd really like to see Hollywood take that concept on (especially if written by Orci, Kurtzman, and Lindelof). It would've provided much more fertile ground for an interesting story, and even, in my eyes, added a wry twist to the stupid title.

-Paul Segal

"Oh, the anger is never far, never far." -SteveH
so you'd like Cowboys and Aliens if it was a totally different movie?
VF5SS Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> so you'd like Cowboys and Aliens if it was a
> totally different movie?


Yeah, wait, what? Like, not even close. You just made up a movie and said 'I wish I could have seen this'.

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VF5SS Wrote:
> so you'd like Cowboys and Aliens if it was a
> totally different movie?

hahaha, kind of! But really, the movie I described would be essentially identical to Cowboys & Aliens for pretty much the whole first hour (except for some details, like the "aliens" blowing up cows, and abducting people with high-tech lassos, all of which was dumb anyway). The one major change in the front half of the movie would be the first face-to-face confrontation with an alien, which of course would be some kind of parallel human-variant instead of a slimy monsterman (but should be no less scary for that!).

EDIT: Actually, the more that I think about it, they could've made the movie that I describe by doing nothing more than replacing the aliens with Star Trek aliens and changing Olivia Wilde's dialogue. So I guess it wouldn't have necessarily been a better concept.

-Paul Segal

"Oh, the anger is never far, never far." -SteveH



Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 09/06/2011 03:33PM by asterphage.
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If only.

Introducing Prometheus Rising Studio.
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What about the Iron Man one with taaaaaaaaaaaank missile~
Don Cheadle IS Captain Planet

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