Anime Decade: From Japan Cool to Cooling Off

Posted by MattAlt 
>Nut up

Thanks for that image, fucker. I need to see Corey's naked toy pic (or is that of me?) to scrub the other image out. <shudder>

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[pgaijin.blogspot.com]
josh fraser (Moderator)
Sanjeev Wrote:
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> Of all the occasions for that black mail photo to
> pop up...I shoulda guessed it woulda been *this*
> topic that'd fuck me...
>
> Well, I guess I'm moe for...fugly bootleg ETs.
>
> Now where's Dave, gods damnit???
>
>


On his facebook. ;-)
MattAlt (Admin)
I really don't get what all this fuss over Moe is about.





Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 02/23/2011 11:56PM by MattAlt.
Attachments:
open | download - MoeMoe.gif (26 KB)
An Idiot's Guide to Tokyo's Harmful Books Regulation

ROFL! Real-life trolling.



Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 02/24/2011 07:50AM by thomas.
[yunakiti.blog79.fc2.com]

Just for fun, what I posted here are DVD/BD sales figures in Japan.

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I asked if I have "Time For L-Gaim" but I got "No Reply From The Wind".
I tried to watch an episode of K-On!

Legend of the Overfiend made more sense.

And it was less creepy.
Gcrush Wrote:
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> I tried to watch an episode of K-On!
>
> Legend of the Overfiend made more sense.
>
> And it was less creepy.

You're showing your age there, bud.

More serious than thou
fujikuro Wrote:
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> You're showing your age there, bud.

No doubt.

I still remember watching the first installment in the series. It was an eye-peeling event that was disturbing, yet comprehensible given the nation's censorship laws and general volatility of human adolescent sexuality. After it was over my biggest complaint was, "What? Did they forget the ending? What the fuck happened?" I was told to read the manga to get the rest of the story. I promptly ignored that advice and moved on with life.

By contrast, nothing about MOE is intuitive to me as an outsider. There's no clear-cut context to help explain it either. It's just some weird bubbling mess of niche pseudo-drama built around the exploitation of vulnerability under the misdirecting claim of genuine attachment. Watching it unfold is like hacking at your soul with a vegetable peeler.
Sanjeev (Admin)
fujikuro Wrote:
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> Gcrush Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> > Legend of the Overfiend...
>
> You're showing your age there, bud.


Really? I'm one of the youngest guys on the board, and I remember that shit from high school. I remember having to pop in the Fist of the Northstar movie to "come down" from that insanity! ;)
Gcrush Wrote:
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> I tried to watch an episode of K-On!
>
> Legend of the Overfiend made more sense.
>
> And it was less creepy.

Um, well, at least you gave it a try. That's all I ask.

But just curious, what was creepy about it? Didn't like Yui giga cuteness I guess.
Legend of the Overfriend is one of my favorites.
Sanjeev Wrote:
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> Really? I'm one of the youngest guys on the board,
> and I remember that shit from high school. I
> remember having to pop in the Fist of the
> Northstar movie to "come down" from that insanity!
> ;)

Hilarious, but true. The over the top violence of the anime at the time was what drew me into the genre. I love those scenes in Vampire Hunter D where D is just casually slashing random monsters into ribbons while walking through a panning crane shot. It was cathartic. My youthful brain extrapolated some civic message from it as well - something along the lines of preserving the fragile security of society through mutual respect and restraint. I still get echoes of that whenever I watch a violent anime.

Except for Violence Jack. That shit will mess you up.


Vincent Z. Wrote:
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> Um, well, at least you gave it a try. That's all I
> ask.

I spun an episode because I (incorrectly?) recalled you saying the director was a woman. I have no idea if that's the case or not. It seems unlikely, but if true it proves only that gender is not an issue when it comes to the cynical exploitation of an insular market.


> But just curious, what was creepy about it? Didn't
> like Yui giga cuteness I guess.

The visuals did nothing for me personally because they came across as too formulaic and well-worn. This is not what made it creepy though - I have always been disinterested in the basic character design conventions of anime (HUGE EYES and GOOFY RAINBOW HAIR) but taken alone those aren't enough to put me off of a series. What made K-On! creepy was the atmosphere of distorted, unnatural, and incoherent social interactions between characters as well as the greezy layer of fetishistic voyeurism built around neotony. There was no point of departure for me, no place where I could start to understand what I was seeing as "entertainment".

I'm saying this: there was a lot of chaotic nothing happening to a cast of highly charged women-girls that seemed to exist only for the lurking gaze of a maladjusted audience.

Teens and adults get horny. There's nothing shameful about that. But there's a limit to where confused, inexperienced youth can satisfy their urges in a healthy way. When I was a kid we looked at porno mags because we were a little too young to actually get laid. This isn't an exoneration of porn in general, but most of us took advantage of the opportunities to get experienced when they presented themselves. The chance to grope real, live, developed breasts was always the end-game of looking at porn. Along the way we learned to navigate relationships as well. And so went the welcoming to the adult world.

MOE, by contrast, comes across as perpetually juvenile and stunted. It's one thing to have unfamiliar cravings about your 14 year old female classmates when you're 14 yourself. But as soon as you sort out the desirable differences between men and women you realize that 14 year old girls aren't prone to satisfying that - the truth is that most of them are damned annoying. This is even more true when you're 18, at which point you realize that the magic range of peak female sexuality (and its ensuing attraction) extends all the way from the very late teens to menopause. As an adult man there really shouldn't be anything appealing in fantasizing about a girl too young to get a driver's license because by that age you should be familiar with the better, more available alternatives. (As someone who occasionally has to work with teenagers, I can tell you there is nothing remotely interesting about the world of adolescents from the perspective of an adult. The shit that occupies most of their brains is the very definition of inexperienced.)

But that's not the end-game with MOE. In fact, there doesn't seem to be an end-game. There's no development of attraction, no clarity of relationships. It's the opposite - perpetual frustration. Like living in the mind of a confused teen aged boy that doesn't have the social skills necessary to ever touch boobies or finger-bang a living person. That's bad enough. But when the audience starts chanting things like "admiration" and "protective feelings" as the basis of their attraction, they're only fooling themselves. It's still ultimately carnal. It's still vastly incompetent. It's still full of backwards messages about relationships.

On its own, MOE is pathetic. Placed in context, its depressing. At best, it trains audiences to view dysfunctional relationships as appropriate. That's soul crushing.
As I wrote the above reply to Vince, it occurred to me that Murakami's Norwegian Wood is almost, but not quite, the literary equivalent of MOE. It's full of unlikable, dysfunctional characters whose interactions are weakly premised on protectiveness. But by the end the protagonist has at least gotten laid several times and mostly resolved his maladaptive sense of attachment. Fans of MOE could learn a lot from that. Get laid and get ahead.
Science. Gcrush brings it.
That...was beautiful, Gcrush.

Someone should do a dramatic reading at an anime convention.
G-crush-Bringing on the pretentious knowledge.

And yes, the director of K-On is a women but like most things it was based on a manga (the anime actually tones done the fanservice).

Watch Madoka Magica then. One of the main girls gets killed early on.

Also read what my friend wrote. Guess where you fall in.

[kgods.wordpress.com]

P.S. Yes, I actually read a segment from Murakami's book (I don't recall which) when I was in college. It was about a guy noticing a girl for a split second and it took place in 1981. The assignment was to make a comic from that part.

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I asked if I have "Time For L-Gaim" but I got "No Reply From The Wind".



Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 03/01/2011 12:41PM by Vincent Z..
mcfitch (Admin)
{quote]G-crush-Bringing on the pretentious knowledge. [/quote]

Vince, G took the time to write a well thought out post voicing his opinions and you chose to attack him simply because he disagrees with you. Is it really a surprise to you why people can't stand you?
-Mason

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Matthewalt &quot;I actually kinda LIKE that approach! You know: let's make a TOY. Remember those? Products designed to be played with without breaking? DO YOU REMEMBER, LOVE?!&quot;
Vincent Z, do you interact with potential mates on a regular basis? If not, do you desire to interact with potential mates? If not, I blame moe.
Sanjeev (Admin)
Vincent, your own linked article states, "You cannot win an argument with [Moral Mikes], so it’s best to ignore them entirely or just laugh off their attempts to ostracize you. They are fun to troll however."

Replace the "ostracize" above with "proselytize"...and you have you.

WE are not the ones kicking YOUR door down to tell you you are bad or wrong.

YOU are the one trolling on and on to US about how your pathetic diddle fantasies are okay whenever the generic topic of Japanese cartoons comes up.

We don't care. How could we be "Moral Mikes" when we just don't give a shit about you? Ostracize you? Hahaha...why bother?? Tooling on you = good times! Besides, if anyone's succeeding at marginalizing you, it's you, champ!

Like I always say, don't ever change, babe!
"G-crush-Bringing on the pretentious knowledge."

How else could we live up to the "ToySnobDX" moniker, if we didn't?

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[pgaijin.blogspot.com]
That linked article is...interesting (and mostly not in a good way). It makes me wonder whether the author thought well about the words he uses and his argument.

Quote

This time around, I thought I would explore/plunder the depths of obnoxious fans and the individuals that make life hard for us actual otaku types out there. So, this will be a venting, hostile and possibly offensive post. Now then, without further meandering:

Pots and kettles. I would add a picture of a facepalm, but I don't think there's a picture out there that has a facepalm large enough to cover the hypocrisy in this.

Quote

Jaded Old Geezers (JOG)
This is not a new phenomenon or even limited to anime and geeky hobbies. These are usually males statistically, but I'm sure it is not completely restricted to them. These guys are vocal and generally angry over the fact that they haven't kept up with their hobby of choice (in this case, anime) and don't understand what happened to their personal obsession in their absence. Chances are high you have encountered these folks in the science fiction and mecha departments and they don't like you.

...mainly because you keep trying to talk to them about moe, which they are not interested in, otherwise you'd meet them in the moe-section.

Finally we come to the Moe Sucks-Army, which starts with this wonderful sentence:

Quote

Another more recent thing, but easily the most prevalent among actual otaku is the hatred of anything cute and non-threatening.

Didn't the author mention the article would be about all those suckers who were not like "actual otaku types" like him? So why is he talking here about moe-hate being the "most prevalent among actual otaku"? Logic fail.

Quote

I would argue that plenty of moé has substance, it just depends on what you are looking for. Granted, if you are looking for deep psychological explorations of the human condition or kinetic action, this is clearly not a realm you want to immerse yourself in.

Last time I checked, "substance" in fiction usually goes beyond 'saucer-eye idealized underage girls flipping their skirts' and indeed does match the second sentence more or less - although "kinetic action" is not very substantial either. If talking anime and manga, I would say any series showcasing detailed and accurate attention to philosophical, sociological, political, or environmental issues counts as "substantial", as well as anything more action-oriented that has an engaging plot and characters that go beyond two-dimensional (and doesn't rely on fanservice as a major component).

Quote

Whilst I thought about adding yaoi-fanatics, ogres that won't move in the aisles of bookstores and cosplayers that refuse to allow photos (what?), those might have to wait for a different day.

And a closing paragraph that is unintentionally hilarious because yaoi-addicts are essentially the female variant of moe-addicts. As for the other two, SUCH BASTARDS! How dare they impede on the way of the Moetaku!



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 03/01/2011 03:59PM by thomas.
>Didn't the author mention the article would be about all those suckers who were not >like "actual otaku types" like him? So why is he talking here about moe-hate being >the "most prevalent among actual otaku"? Logic fail.

He's talking about people like the fine folk (sarcasm mode) at Anime News Network, heading by King moral mike there.

My friend and I do a podcast, you could you, actually listen and pick at my brain.

>YOU are the one trolling on and on to US about how your pathetic diddle fantasies >are okay whenever the generic topic of Japanese cartoons comes up.

Sorry, I know I'm trolling but but some anvils need to be dropped.

BTW, I consider most of the Japanese otaku to be true heroes. Why? Because they're being true to themselves while not bothering anybody. So Japan's population and much of the free world democratic countries are dropping. Good! There's too many people on this planet anyway.

Moe has made me happier than ever in years.

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I asked if I have "Time For L-Gaim" but I got "No Reply From The Wind".



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 03/01/2011 04:22PM by Vincent Z..
Uncle Sam knows whats up.





Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 03/01/2011 04:32PM by Scopedog.
Attachments:
open | download - Moe Sucks Army.JPG (50 KB)
There's really no point in trying to argue with a fanatic, which Vince clearly is. I would hope that he's not the norm among Moe fans, but I would guess that by its very nature, being a Moe fan means you're like Vince. We can keep arguing with him all we want about his trolling of a website where his topic is not wanted nor encouraged, but the only way to truly deal with him is to ban him. You cannot convince him that what he's doing is a problem.

More serious than thou
<Sorry, I know I'm trolling but but some anvils need to be dropped.>

How's that working out for you, Vinnie?






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[pgaijin.blogspot.com]
Wow, GCrush, that was really well-written. Bravo.

-Ginrai
Golden Gate Riot on dead trees at: [www.destroyallcomics.com]
why isn't vince banned
Because this thread is about anime (which moe is a part of), was created by an owner of the site, and in the the "off-topic" section. The number of people banned from this site can be counted on one hand, thankfully, and is a practice saved for truly egregious behavior.

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[pgaijin.blogspot.com]



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 03/01/2011 06:28PM by hillsy.
Vincent Z. Wrote:
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> Moe has made me happier than ever in years.

Has it actually equipped you with tools for pursuing healthier, more fulfilling, and functional relationships with actual potential mates or sexual companions, such as adult women? I'm genuinely morbidly curious about this.

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I want YOU for Moé Sucks Army



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 03/01/2011 06:36PM by Scopedog.
VF5SS Wrote:
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> why isn't vince banned

Because even though this moe stuff has turned him into a misguided crusader, at least he uses proper capitalization and punctuation. You should be ashamed of yourself, young man...

hillsy Wrote:
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> The number of
> people banned from this site can be counted on one
> hand, thankfully, and is a practice saved for
> truly egregious behavior.

Got four or five examples so you can give people something to shoot for? ;p
I only have one finger, Rog....guess which one? ;)

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[pgaijin.blogspot.com]
How do you type so well with only one finger?
I do realize that I can go over the top sometimes and that it's useless to talk about moe here.

I just sometimes feel like an attack on moe is an attack on me, even if I know tastes are different and bygones should be left intact.

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I asked if I have "Time For L-Gaim" but I got "No Reply From The Wind".
So my neighbor's dogs bark, but only from about 8:00 AM to 10:00 AM, and sporadically enough to escape the barking ordinances of our town and my attempts to film them. Man, it's terribly annoying, let me tell you. They are infringing upon my god-given right to sleep in until noon.

Every time I go into the yard, these fucking things blitz the fence like they want to rip my throat out, and most days out of the week, I'm totally groggy because I'd been woken up at 9:30 AM.

Yesterday, soused on a measly four hours of sleep, I was leading a staff meeting in which I made some joke about how a student video project felt like a PSA for condom usage (it actually did feel that way), and in a class later that day, I made a crack about how another student video project seemed to be borrowing the rhetorical devices best effected by boner pill companies (it actually was borrowing said devices). The students were horrified, I think, by my use of the word boner. As if.

What can I say? He was probably the best character on Growing Pains.

It was not my best day, though probably one of my more interesting ones.

Then I went home and watched Being Human, which is one of the sappiest shows I've ever watched on a regular basis, other than that series of Twilight fan-made YouTube videos I watched while working on my Robert Pattinson picture book.

In short, what I'm really trying to say is that Mr. Crush emailed me about this thread, and all it got me to do was whine about my life.

Thank you.

BTW, Mr. Serious Guy, you're calling Mr. Crush old for referencing Overfiend? Seriously? :)

Like, Mr. Jeev, I also remember that fine cinematic treat from high school. In fact, my local comic book store owner, who also happened to be quite a perv himself, actually carded me before renting me a copy. I guess he wanted to make sure I was of the consenting age of, you know, 16.



Edited 4 time(s). Last edit at 03/01/2011 09:16PM by gingaio.
Vincent Z. Wrote:
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> I just sometimes feel like an attack on moe is an
> attack on me...

You're just realizing that now?

Like all this time, when people have started flaming you at the first scent of the word mo', you'd just think, "Hey, this is not an attack on me."

Seriously, though, VZ, I'm decidedly not jumping on the VZ-bashing wagon this time.

I'm way too tired to.

Rock on, brother.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 03/01/2011 09:06PM by gingaio.
Looks like all had a fun day. ;0p

As to (edit)>Dr.Mr.Crush's fine comment today, I don't see how anyone could see negativity, personal attack, or pretentiousness, at all.

Mostly just heart, and a positive, move forward, get-your-butt-in-gear-cuz-I-wanna-see-you-LIVE-sonny! plea.
I wish I were able to take a general, common sense, feeling of unease with something, and articulate why, in writing, like that. Nice.


Oh, and everybody gets a "Mr." ahead of their names now, except for gingaio. He gets "Professor" from me.



Edited 4 time(s). Last edit at 03/01/2011 09:52PM by repairtechjon.
Mr. Crush wrote:

>>Except for Violence Jack. That shit will mess you up.

Truer words have never been spoken. Google the videos, bitches. That is some seriously sick shit that will make you loathe the type of human that came up with this shit.
repairtechjon Wrote:
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> Oh, and everybody gets a "Mr." ahead of their
> names now, except for gingaio. He gets "Professor"
> from me.

Lecturer would be more accurate, if you want to get all technical (ha ha!!), though I appreciate the thought, Mr. Repairtechjon.

Just don't want to come off like I'm posing. Or like my school would actually give me tenure. Mr. Crush is the one with the P-H-D. And in Moe Studies, naturally.
Sanjeev (Admin)
Incidentally, I'm not a doctor or professor or lecturer...but I am an ordained priest, fully sanctioned by the Commonwealth of Massachusetts to do...priestly stuff. So "reverend" works. ;)
>but I am an ordained priest, fully sanctioned by the Commonwealth of Massachusetts >to do...priestly stuff. So "reverend" works. ;)

Seriously!?

>Except for Violence Jack. That shit will mess you up.

Violence Jack is SO over the top violent, it's hilarious. Try Angel Cop while you're at it.

"FUCK AND PISS"

Golden dialogue in the dub.

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I asked if I have "Time For L-Gaim" but I got "No Reply From The Wind".
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