Anime Decade: From Japan Cool to Cooling Off

Posted by MattAlt 
Vincent Z. Wrote:
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[www.youtube.com]
Vincent Z. Wrote:
> I don't want the studios to make stuff for western
> tastes because it ends up being stuff like Afro Samurai, Speed Grapher

What's so western about Speed Grapher? I actually don't know this. It just seems like another 'superpower grab-bag' anime.

> I'm perfectly fine with moeblob schoolgirls
> talking about nothing.
>
> And anime the references other anime doesn't make
> it inherently bad.

It's not the references that make it bad, it's the reliance on references instead of story and character, cleverness and originality.

> You the view could be one of those two characters
> and still find it funny and relatable.

I really don't see how the references are funny to a viewer who doesn't get them.

> I'm reliving my 16-bit era video gaming
> youth because I'm really not into the type of
> games made today but I at least accept the changes

Oh, don't be a big nostalgia jerk. What the hell does 'the type of games made today' mean? What's the last new game you played?

-Paul Segal

"Oh, the anger is never far, never far." -SteveH
So all the older stuff should take off in sales, as many of us accept that there is new stuff in the world, but would rather recapture that time when we were first impressioned by shows. So, again, off to the clearance aisles!
Reprints, reprints, reprints(or whatever they call rereleased vids these days). THAT'S where the ol' money is for the studios.
>It's not the references that make it bad, it's the reliance on references instead of story and character, cleverness and originality.

Many do in fact have varying level of cleverness and originality. Or if you think so, check out Simoun and Dennou Coil, which have neat story premises.

Then again, I watch anime for the art and design work first, story and premise second.

>Oh, don't be a big nostalgia jerk. What the hell does 'the type of games made today' mean? What's the last new game you played?

I'm not fond of those game that are tying SO hard to look realistic (Call of Duty, Metal of Honor). Games to me should be stick to making a world look stylized and not try to emulate real life.

Can't recall the last new game I played. Katamari Damacy may have been it. Japan still makes cool games (Hauruhi Suzumiya dancing game) and also there's that upcoming Transfomers one that looks really neat.

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I asked if I have "Time For L-Gaim" but I got "No Reply From The Wind".



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 03/01/2010 12:29AM by Vincent Z..
Vincent Z. Wrote:
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> >It's not the references that make it bad, it's
> the reliance on references instead of story and
> character, cleverness and originality.
>
> Many do in fact have varying level of cleverness
> and originality. Or if you think so, check out
> Simoun and Dennou Coil, which have neat story
> premises.
>
> Then again, I watch anime for the art and design
> work first, story and premise second.
>
> >Oh, don't be a big nostalgia jerk. What the hell
> does 'the type of games made today' mean? What's
> the last new game you played?
>
> I'm not fond of those game that are tying SO hard
> to look realistic (Call of Duty, Metal of Honor).
> Games to me should be stick to making a world look
> stylized and not try to emulate real life.
>
> Can't recall the last new game I played. Katamari
> Damacy may have been it. Japan still makes cool
> games (Hauruhi Suzumiya dancing game) and also
> there's that upcoming Transfomers one that looks
> really neat.

I'm really surprised you aren't into modern games. There are incredibly stylized games out there, and even games that you mentioned don't really fall into the "Uncanny Valley" because they are so stylized. Don't you want games to get better graphically? And the ones you mentioned (a Haruhi dancing game and Transformers) are basically license based. I would have thought something like Suda's No More Heroes, or any of the newer Zelda games, or Bayonetta would be right up your alley.
what's wrong, Snake? you don't like girls?
MSW
Hey, Vincent...I'm not a fan of modern mainstream games either. But if you venture off the beaten path, there are tons of great games out there...But you have to dig around for them, and you should find plenty of dojin games that suit your intrests.


Here is the trailer for 2D dojin PC SHMUP (think R-Type, Gradius) that I've been playing named Cloudphobia:
[www.youtube.com]

Dig the Nagano influence in the mechs!
I've been having fun with flash based games like those found on facebook.

Too bad that game doesn't work on my mac, that looked neat. Always love seeing Nagano influenced things.

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I asked if I have "Time For L-Gaim" but I got "No Reply From The Wind".
mcfitch Wrote:
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> Steve,
> I'm curious due to your knowledge of everything
> marketing, production and retail; what exactly are
> your credentials on all this? Please don't let
> the answer be that you read stuff on the internet,
> or that you've worked in retail. Do you have a
> masters in some form of business? Some kind of
> marketing background perhaps?

THIS QUESTION WAS ASKED AND ANSWERED FIVE YEARS AGO:

[toyboxdx.com]
well, there ya go then. :)
tell me more about the battletech people again, steve
VF5SS Wrote:
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> tell me more about the battletech people again,
> steve

Well, it would drift horribly OT but which part?

-the part where FASA contracted with TCI to import Takara 1/144 scale Dougram kits and the Nitto 1/200 scale Macross Pitaban kits to be playing pieces for their Battledroids game?

-the part where Testors bought up the molds for the Nitto 1/200 scale Macross Pitaban kits, released them under the name R.O.B.O.T. and shafted TCI?

-How TCI had the rights to the box art for those kits and they sub-leased the rights to FASA to be used as cardboard counters in the now-renamed Battletech?

or was it something else?
well i figured since the only other place i saw you post that was on some random blog i might as well get it here

spread the word
Roger Wrote:
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> mcfitch Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> > Steve,
> > I'm curious due to your knowledge of everything
> > marketing, production and retail; what exactly
> are
> > your credentials on all this? Please don't let
> > the answer be that you read stuff on the
> internet,
> > or that you've worked in retail. Do you have a
> > masters in some form of business? Some kind of
> > marketing background perhaps?
>
> THIS QUESTION WAS ASKED AND ANSWERED FIVE YEARS
> AGO:
>
> [toyboxdx.com]
> 2


I should have received a Pulitzer for that thread.
A kick in the junk, rather.

---------------------------------
[pgaijin.blogspot.com]
Sanjeev (Admin)
I rather enjoyed it, actually. Especially the bit with the asterisks.

In fact, parts of that thread made me a little nostalgic for HLJ's pre-toy era, when I was in high school/college and would scrape together my pennies and order an obscure-ish Max Factory soft vinyl kit or two!
Getting this back to topic.

I understand the points made in this thread, but still I'm enjoying the type of anime made NOW and I'm going to supporting them.

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I asked if I have "Time For L-Gaim" but I got "No Reply From The Wind".
And amazingly enough, it's 5 pages later, and we STILL don't care.

---------------------------------
[pgaijin.blogspot.com]
Yeah, Vince, you seem to be either asking us permission if it's okay to like what you like, or trying to convince us to like what you like. Why?
Because we're brainwashed prudes, of course.

---------------------------------
[pgaijin.blogspot.com]
Vince, I don't understand what's going on in your brain, OK?

I think most everyone is perfectly happy to let you watch what you want to watch, collect what you want to collect.

But the evangelism just isn't going to fly, OK? Trying to sneak in "well, if you like that then you MUST like this intensely MOE loli fetish show!" because someone is talking about Revoltech figures (and I can't wait to see that Kaiju line ramp up) is just going to get you beat up on, AGAIN.

Gaaa, you're like the guy who digs around Wiki trying to find hyper obscure '80s OAVs and namecheck them in an attempt to gain street cred with the Old Skool...So you read about Nora and Twinkle Nora: Rock Me!, that doesn't mean you watched it or know why one is a pretty decent hard SF OAV and the other a mindless cash-in.
>Gaaa, you're like the guy who digs around Wiki trying to find hyper obscure '80s >OAVs and namecheck them in an attempt to gain street cred with the Old Skool...So >you read about Nora and Twinkle Nora: Rock Me!, that doesn't mean you watched it or >know why one is a pretty decent hard SF OAV and the other a mindless cash-in

Never heard of that OVA. But unlike what you think, I have seen the other OVAs I do talk about on my blog and 4chan.

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I asked if I have "Time For L-Gaim" but I got "No Reply From The Wind".
Yes, I'm sure this will revitalize the mecha genre.

Er, it's hard to do sarcasm over the internet.

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I asked if I have "Time For L-Gaim" but I got "No Reply From The Wind".
Attachments:
open | download - Heroman.jpg (89.9 KB)
Wow, wacky! Several posts just vanished!

WHOSE RESPONSIBLE THIS?

And Vince, I don't think a single person here would claim Heroman would 'revitalize' anything.
I fucking love that Heroman robot design. It's like the Big Guy meets Die Buster meets Xamd (or Nirvash Spec 3).

So, jumping back to an earlier topic- Vincent, I have to say, I can't argue with your stance of "I haven't played a new game since Katamari, because new games aren't stylish enough." It's a strong position to take because few games are as stylish as Katamari. :3 Maybe LocoRoco, some puzzle games... and, of course, a lot of Flash and download-only games. There's something of an old-school platformer revolution going on. I'd try to list notable titles but there are really too many.
Also, I feel like the system for you right now is the DS. Besides a fair amount of stylish, abstracted games, it's had a bunch of series for years now with interesting concepts, strong gameplay, and pretty good anime-style character designs.

-Paul Segal

"Oh, the anger is never far, never far." -SteveH
[news.yahoo.com]

Matt, your original article has been cited here.

I still think that during a weak economy, it's better to market to a group of people who definitely buy the product rather than children/general audience where doing so is a crapshoot and doesn't guarantee sales.

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I asked if I have "Time For L-Gaim" but I got "No Reply From The Wind".



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 03/31/2010 11:37AM by Vincent Z..
MattAlt (Admin)
>>Matt, your original article has been cited here.

Actually, it hasn't. I was interviewed and quoted separately. Thanks for posting the link, though. This piece is about China's inroads into the Japanese anime industry, not about the anime industry's issues per se.
Before we know it, Matt's going to be on TV talking to Wolf Blitzer about the rape game controversy (article, video).

-Paul Segal

"Oh, the anger is never far, never far." -SteveH
Tangentially related but important to post here. And no I didn't ask this one.

[www.animenation.net]

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I asked if I have "Time For L-Gaim" but I got "No Reply From The Wind".
MattAlt (Admin)
>>the rape game controversy

That segment is embarrassingly out of date -- the game wasn't even on the shelves when this was first reported close to a year and a half ago, the manufacturer has halted all sales abroad anyway, and it is a super- super- niche title even in Japan. Talk about a scoop, huh? Slow news day, I guess.
>>the rape game controversy

Even more ironic that the Korean CNN reporter apparently cheated on her husband.

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I asked if I have "Time For L-Gaim" but I got "No Reply From The Wind".
No comparison of adults cheating, to child rape, please.
MattAlt (Admin)
Her personal life isn't pertinent. The REAL ironic thing about it that there is stuff here that really actually IS on the borderline, involving actual human beings instead of drawings or pixels, and that isn't being shut down for a variety of reasons social and political. That would actually make an interesting story. But covering that'd, like, require actual research instead of just surfing the 'net.
And taking a risky stand...how much of that 'crisis that's over a year old' has to do with Korean Xenophobia of the Japanese?

I know there's been a growing merging of Korean and Japanese pop culture, and I'm sure as I can be there are those over there that resent this. So this would fit a template "OMG JAPAN!!".

There's always motives behind motives.
Vincent Z. Wrote:
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> Even more ironic that the Korean CNN reporter
> apparently cheated on her husband.


SteveH Wrote:
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> And taking a risky stand...how much of that
> 'crisis that's over a year old' has to do with
> Korean Xenophobia of the Japanese?


These misattributions are embarrassingly ignorant. And waaay off-topic.
MattAlt (Admin)
Agreed. I don't see her racial background as pertinent, either. Those kind of attacks are as easy, as lazy, and as superficial as her original reporting.

There are plenty of people of ALL races writing salacious stories about the Japan, including Japanese people. Tabloid reporting can go places mainstream journalism cannot or will not, which is a good thing. It's just a shame she's wasting it on a non-issue like this game.
I noticed that after this follow-up article, Sankaku Complex (which you may remeber as that NWS anime-fan/Japanophile news site Vincent sometimes links to) used an interview with Kyung Lah (here, or here) as evidence that she has the supposedly "typical" Korean bias against Japan, but upon reading the actual interviews it seems likely that they are grasping at straws.


MattAlt Wrote:
>
> That segment is embarrassingly out of date -- the
> game wasn't even on the shelves when this was
> first reported close to a year and a half ago, the
> manufacturer has halted all sales abroad anyway,
> and it is a super- super- niche title even in
> Japan.

See, this is why CNN should be leveraging their access to people like yourself to provide a more informed view of these subjects, if they're going to report on them!

-Paul Segal

"Oh, the anger is never far, never far." -SteveH
MattAlt (Admin)
I think it probably says more about the demands of the TV market (soundbites, exaggeration for effect, super-simplified explanations, reduced need for context, etc.) than it does about her as a reporter. TV journalism is a whole different beast from print.
Copy & paste deal from Sankaku Complex I thought Matt and others would find interesting, if incredibly dire.


"The notorious poverty of Japanese animators once again come in for scrutiny, with animators reportedly earning an hourly wage of only $3, less than a burger flipper.
Average incomes for anime industry employees are said to be pathetic even by Japanese standards – actual animators received an average annual wage of ¥1,050,000 ($10,000). Artists received ¥2,320,000, whilst performers could expect only ¥3,330,000 and even directors only received ¥4,950,000.
Looking at the results by age reveals it is most probably seniority and not merit which is the primary determinant of wages, a practice which became entrenched in Japan in the post-war period and still dominates the labour market – those in their twenties received an average of ¥1,100,000, those in their thirties ¥2,130,000, whilst those aged 40-60 found their earnings peaking at a meagre ¥4,000,000.
Actually dividing this income by hours worked (Japanese companies not infrequently demand massive amounts of unpaid overtime) reveals an even more pitiful truth – the average hourly wage for animators is estimated at ¥298 ($3), that for artists ¥689, and that for directors ¥1,412.
For reference, McDonald’s employees in Tokyo can expect an hourly wage of ¥1,000.
Japan’s plunging marriage and birth rates have often been blamed on these kind of hiring practices – employees in their twenties and thirties increasingly report that girlfriends, let alone wives, are out of their reach. The situation would appear to be even more aggravated in the anime industry.
The survey also asked about job satisfaction – unsurprisingly, 62% reported their love of drawing was the main motivator, as opposed to other factors such as money. 16.6% reported grave dissatisfaction with their work, 37% “dissatisfaction” and only 3.5% were “very satisfied.” 70% reported dissatisfaction with their wages.
With studio output declining recently it seems unlikely matters will improve."

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I asked if I have "Time For L-Gaim" but I got "No Reply From The Wind".
Did Sankaku cite a source on this? They used to always link back to the Japanese news articles they quoted, but they don't do it so much anymore...

-Paul Segal

"Oh, the anger is never far, never far." -SteveH
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