New Revoltech Thread Untouched by the Masses

Posted by Gcrush 
They just keep coming.

Couldn't find a good picture of it, but the alien warrior from Aliens has a revo-joint at the base of the tail. That addresses one of my major complaints with the first alien figure. Awesome. If they both to give it real wrist joints I just might shit kittens.

Sanjeev, you ever get that Daimajin? Did you hate it? He's gonna need a Rodan to fight...







Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 07/30/2010 07:59AM by Gcrush.
Attachments:
open | download - Rodan.jpg (68 KB)
open | download - Angilas.jpg (68.9 KB)
open | download - Alien Queen 2.jpg (185.5 KB)
Rodan - coolness!

But is that a mini Moonlight SY3 that comes with Anguilus? That's kind of...random.
Hilarious upcoming Queen's Blade (actually from it's offshoot, Queen's Gate) Revoltech.

[www.amiami.jp]

--------------------------------------------------------------

I asked if I have "Time For L-Gaim" but I got "No Reply From The Wind".
Sanjeev (Admin)
Gcrush Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Sanjeev, you ever get that Daimajin? Did you hate
> it? He's gonna need a Rodan to fight...

Still haven't received it yet. Damn SAL shipping.

I was actually envisioning Daimajin fighting Mogera in some bizarre battle of ancient shamanistic spirituality versus hard sci-fi alien terror. But that Rodan IS pretty damn killer!

Harvey, Angilas was in Destroy All Monsters...so I guess it makes sense... Sorta? :P
I'll take those shitted kittens....

---------------------------------
[pgaijin.blogspot.com]
hillsy Wrote:
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> I'll take those shitted kittens....


I'm... Flattered?
I just don't think you're prepared to care for butt kittens.

---------------------------------
[pgaijin.blogspot.com]
Sanjeev Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
>>
> Harvey, Angilas was in Destroy All Monsters...so I
> guess it makes sense... Sorta? :P

True. He's just not the Kaiju I associate with that movie, I guess (though he does get his spikey butt handed to him by King Ghidorah).
hillsy Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> I just don't think you're prepared to care for
> butt kittens.


It's true. Every last bit of it.
Sanjeev (Admin)
Are we gonna get Revoltech butt kittens? Wonder what the accessories would be...
Sanjeev Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Are we gonna get Revoltech butt kittens? Wonder
> what the accessories would be...


You do not want to watch them eat.
"Skeletal Warrior (Harryhausen version)"

OHHHHH SHIIIIIIT

-Paul Segal

"Oh, the anger is never far, never far." -SteveH
Sanjeev (Admin)
asterphage Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> "Skeletal Warrior (Harryhausen version)"
>
> OHHHHH SHIIIIIIT

Hmmm...you might like this. I was sorely tempted...being a huge Harryhausen fan AND a glow nut. But I'd rather have something glowie from Clash of the Titans...a glowie Kraken would probably give me a stroke. Anyway...back to butt kittens.
[schizophonic9.com]

get back jojo

and iggy pop
This image spoke to me. And it said dirty, dirty things.





Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 07/31/2010 11:24AM by Gcrush.
Attachments:
open | download - picture pages.jpg (302.6 KB)



[blog.livedoor.jp]

what won't they make into a figma



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 07/31/2010 07:41PM by VF5SS.
Attachments:
open | download - birisan.jpg (25.3 KB)
Sanjeev (Admin)
This morning, I was greeted by the postman with a box from HLJ. At the behest of G, I picked up Daimajin on sale for just over 2k. I am now filled with hate and loathing. No, really...even more so than normal! :P

Pretty terrible. Very small, very rubbery, very cheap-feeling. I opened the box (that was three times larger than it had to be...seriously, why aren't these carded???) and carefully took out the figure. One of the first things I did was remove the pike from his forehead. It almost immediately broke in half. Next, the left shoulder armor plate fell off as I reached for another taco. Virtually ZERO friction in the joint...just flops all over the place (the opposite one's okay).

The shoulder joints seem weird and bulbous in a lot of poses. The waist joint is mostly non-existent: you can sorta twist him at the waist, but you're basically rubbing the soft rubbery bits of his armor together. I didn't really bother with the extra hands and removable sword...but I noted how out of scale the evil warlord clutched in that special hand was (he's way too big).

The worst part, though, was just the overall sculpt. The face looks so soft and goofy...not menacing in the slightest. I don't get it: Kaiyodo, themselves, put out those "Xebec" figures a while back, and their sculpts were damn near perfect (even if their paint ops were kinda off).

Overall, very unimpressed. It's funny: we refer to vinyls as "rubber chew toys", but the Marusan figures are not only vastly more fun...but they sure are a LOT less "rubbery" and fiddly.

After about 5 minutes of handling, he went back in the box. If I can't trade him for anything of value at the Summit, he's going home with someone else as a freebie. Luckily, the HLJ box also contained the Zoids EVO Gojulas (also on sale). Always wanted him...but lack of space or time to assemble a proper one have always kept me Gojulas-less. This EVO toy seems to solve both problems! Heh...ironically enough, despite my now-confirmed distaste for Revoltechs, I'd consider a Revoltech Gojulas if they continue with the Zoids line...
Was that your first Revoltech?

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I asked if I have "Time For L-Gaim" but I got "No Reply From The Wind".
Sanjeev (Admin)
Nah, I got the New Getters (I think among the very first Revoltechs), and the mask-open Gaiking. I've handled a lot more at JoshB's. I've never felt good after any of these experiences. Yeah, yeah...fool me once...

I'm just not that into cheap-feeling action figures. Especially when they normally cost around thirty fucking dollars. I'd rather buy 3-4 Glyos figures.
Sanjeev Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Pretty terrible. Very small, very rubbery, very
> cheap-feeling. I opened the box (that was three
> times larger than it had to be...seriously, why
> aren't these carded???) and carefully took out the
> figure.

Yeah, they're smallish. But the only part that is rubbery is the skirt - to allow the legs to bust a move. But the rest is solid.



Agreed about the box. It is in no way an economical use of space. Drives me nuts. The original Star Wars toys were the perfection of toy packaging. That was, what, 30 years ago? That's progress, kids.


> One of the first things I did was remove
> the pike from his forehead. It almost immediately
> broke in half. Next, the left shoulder armor plate
> fell off as I reached for another taco. Virtually
> ZERO friction in the joint...just flops all over
> the place (the opposite one's okay).

The spike is tiny. Really, really tiny. Even if it were diecast it would still be highly bustable. And the spike on my old Xebec one broke, too.

QC on Revo-joints is hit or miss. Sometimes I get real dogs, other times they're all nice and tight. Not sure what's up with that.


> The shoulder joints seem weird and bulbous in a
> lot of poses. The waist joint is mostly
> non-existent: you can sorta twist him at the
> waist, but you're basically rubbing the soft
> rubbery bits of his armor together.

The shoulders are an area where it would be less obtrusive if they had scaled the figure up a bit. The unsculpted wait area pisses me off, too. Everything else is well detailed on that thing. The waist skippage is a massive oversight.


> I didn't
> really bother with the extra hands and removable
> sword...but I noted how out of scale the evil
> warlord clutched in that special hand was (he's
> way too big).

Dood. I haven't watched the films in a while, but the man looks about right. Check the Xebec comparison below. If the two look different it's probably because the Xebec figure's proportions are more stylized - it's taller and more pinched looking whereas the Revoltech looks like a squatty man-in-a-suit (like the actually movie prop). If the man is too big it's only by a hair.





> The worst part, though, was just the overall
> sculpt. The face looks so soft and goofy...not
> menacing in the slightest. I don't get it:
> Kaiyodo, themselves, put out those "Xebec" figures
> a while back, and their sculpts were damn near
> perfect (even if their paint ops were kinda off).

See above. The Xebec doesn't look like a man in a suit - it's obviously stylized in that respect. And the costume in the film is pretty bulbous looking itself.




> Overall, very unimpressed. It's funny: we refer to
> vinyls as "rubber chew toys", but the Marusan
> figures are not only vastly more fun...but they
> sure are a LOT less "rubbery" and fiddly.

Dood. I'm sorry you hated it. But, really, comparing it to vinyl? That doesn't make sense. Vinyl will always win on glow merits.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 08/02/2010 06:32PM by Gcrush.
Attachments:
open | download - strike a pose.jpg (109.5 KB)
open | download - xebec man.jpg (74.2 KB)
open | download - kaiyodo man.jpg (99 KB)
open | download - movie majin.jpg (45.1 KB)
Sanjeev (Admin)
I'd completely forgotten about the evil warlord fig that came with the Xebec. Yeah, he's too big, too! :P Look at the full-body shot of the Revoltech: if that dude was standing up straight on the ground next to Daimajin, he'd come damn close to his waist. That ain't right. But they goofed the scale a bit in the movie, too, when he was carrying him around...just not nearly THIS bad. Oh well...whatever...

Regarding the lack of sculpting on the waist bit, I didn't even see that. Honestly, the bottom of the rubbery chest armor and the top of the rubbery skirt are MASHED together. I thought they just changed it on the final toy so his waist joint only allows for swiveling. Do I need to pull the body halves apart or something to expose this waist? Maybe I'm better off not having to deal with the bald midriff...

Oh, and regarding the packaging. Seriously. What the fuck, Japan? Star Wars figures and 80's GI Joe guys = perfection. It's not rocket science. There's gotta be some kind of packaging fetish in Japan. All these completely charmless, nondescript window boxes that modern Japanese toys come in are such paragons of blandness, I just don't even know where to start...

Anyway, I still prefer the Xebec sculpt. Yeah, it's a little idealized (less guy-in-suit...more what the film-makers probably intended). But not just their proportions: take a real close look at the faces...the Xebec is a *lot* more fierce. The Revoltech is kinda cartoony with the perfectly even too-light shade of matte green, and big Mickey Mouse eyes. Eh well. Your mileage may vary.

But no need to be bothered by my hate. It's a new Daimajin toy...there's basically NO realistic way I was gonna miss this. My expectations were extremely low, and I think this toy pretty much came out exactly as I'd envisioned it would. No harm, no foul. If anything, this has inspired me to track down the Marusan sofubi set! :P
Sanjeev Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------

> Oh, and regarding the packaging. Seriously. What
> the fuck, Japan? Star Wars figures and 80's GI Joe
> guys = perfection.

I would amend this slightly by saying that Star Wars and GI Joe were onto something with carded figs, but that Microman perfected this with the slide-out backed cards, making them reusable.

I wonder if the oversized packaging has to do with the cost of Revoltechs. Perhaps Kaiyodo execs are afraid that the toys won't sell at their asking price unless the consumer is led to believe that they are getting more for their yen evidenced by the larger package.

Now, WHERE ARE MY DAMNED POWERED SUITS KAIYODO!?!?


*edited for pissing and moaning*



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 08/03/2010 01:48PM by Warrhead.
Sanjeev (Admin)
Warrhead Wrote:
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> ...Microman perfected this with the
> slide-out backed cards, making them reusable.

Ah, *great* call...so fucking true.
That's the only kind of call I know how to make. ;)
well, based on retail history, there are advantages to having a single box size in terms of display on retail shelves and shipping assortments. Saying that, it seem the usual Japanese fetish for the package having as much care in design as the product it contains has slipped here.

But isn't that obvious in the rather useless 'spare parts keeper box' that comes with every toy? Oh,I'm sure it did well back in the day where all they needed to hold were some extra hands, but man, it's pretty much just a plastic box for you to leave in the package nowadays, isn't it?

Ya know? I can live with it. I want that Maser tank. And I hope hope hope they make a Moonlight SY3. I've wanted a toy of that thing since the first time I saw 'Destroy All Monsters'.
Hey it's the Asian way, regarding the packaging. I especially love the snacks packaging... a beautiful ribbon wrapped box, open it up, you get an inner box, open that up, you get a plastic tray with individually wrapped snack cakes or whatever. Beautiful presentaion but completely needless and wasteful, I'd agree.

Oh, and thanks for your definitive thoughts on Revoltech in general, Sanjeev. I've been on the fence on these (especially the Kaiju ones) for so long, but I don't think I'll be shelling out for cheap, floppy feeling action figs despite the coolness of the sculpts or properties.
Sanjeev Wrote:
>
> Hmmm...you might like this. I was sorely
> tempted...being a huge Harryhausen fan AND a glow
> nut. But I'd rather have something glowie from
> Clash of the Titans...a glowie Kraken would
> probably give me a stroke. Anyway...back to butt
> kittens.

Hmm, interesting. Looks like it might be pretty stiff in the articulation... which may be more accurate to the film... but honestly, to me, a Revoltech skeleton with ridiculous articulation would serve as a "generic" skeleton warrior as well, not just a toy that replicates the poses from the film.
I feel the same way about the Revoltech T.Rex... and, notably, about the animals from the GI Joe Sigma 6 line: the Snake Eyes w/ wolf, Storm Shadow w/ tiger, Snake Eyes w/ cobra and Recondo w/gator sets. Beyond the context they're sold in, they're awesome, stylish, well-articulated "generic" figures of a particular subject.


SteveH Wrote:
>
> But isn't that obvious in the rather useless
> 'spare parts keeper box' that comes with every
> toy? Oh,I'm sure it did well back in the day where
> all they needed to hold were some extra hands, but
> man, it's pretty much just a plastic box for you
> to leave in the package nowadays, isn't it?

It's pretty useful for most of the robot Revoltechs, which have spare hands, tiny connector parts, sometimes a knife or a pistol. It can basically supplant the need to keep the original package, since for a toy like one of the recent Getter releases, the box will hold all the accessories except for a couple of weapons that are too big to lose anyway.

What might be a nice product for them to introduce would be a special version of the box, larger, with multiple compartments of various sizes with hinged lids, like in a tacklebox or toolbox or or one of those craft supplies organizers, but geared towards the storage of Revoltech parts. The tiny boxes are pretty great for hands and spare joints, but something with a longer compartment geared towards rifles and swords and effects parts would be really useful.

-Paul Segal

"Oh, the anger is never far, never far." -SteveH
>What might be a nice product for them to introduce would be a special version of >the box, larger, with multiple compartments of various sizes with hinged lids, like >in a tacklebox or toolbox or or one of those craft supplies organizers, but geared >towards the storage of Revoltech parts. The tiny boxes are pretty great for hands >and spare joints, but something with a longer compartment geared towards rifles and >swords and effects parts would be really useful.

I think they have just that. Look in the latest catalogs that come with the figures to see what I mean.

--------------------------------------------------------------

I asked if I have "Time For L-Gaim" but I got "No Reply From The Wind".
Sanjeev (Admin)
H-man Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Oh, and thanks for your definitive thoughts on
> Revoltech in general, Sanjeev. I've been on the
> fence on these (especially the Kaiju ones) for so
> long, but I don't think I'll be shelling out for
> cheap, floppy feeling action figs despite the
> coolness of the sculpts or properties.
(emphasis added)

Any time.

But going back, I think I failed to mention the real crux of my meh attitude towards Revoltechs. They are anything but "cheap". Even on sale at HLJ, Daimajin cost around $25 plus shipping from Japan. $25 is a little absurd for a slightly upgraded MSIA with gimmicky joints.

I think if these were $10-15, I wouldn't complain. I still probably wouldn't buy them as I'm trying to cut down on my toy crack intake, but you get what I'm saying... Shit, if they were $10-15, I'd definitely get that Mogera...he's another unloved showa kaiju that I adore (plus, The Mysterians is such a kick-ass movie).
Revoltechs suck balls?

---------------------------------
[pgaijin.blogspot.com]
Sanjeev Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> But going back, I think I failed to mention the
> real crux of my meh attitude towards Revoltechs.
> They are anything but "cheap". Even on sale at
> HLJ, Daimajin cost around $25 plus shipping from
> Japan. $25 is a little absurd for a slightly
> upgraded MSIA with gimmicky joints.
>
> I think if these were $10-15, I wouldn't complain.
> I still probably wouldn't buy them as I'm trying
> to cut down on my toy crack intake, but you get
> what I'm saying... Shit, if they were $10-15, I'd
> definitely get that Mogera...he's another unloved
> showa kaiju that I adore (plus, The Mysterians is
> such a kick-ass movie).


Dood, there are two problems with this approach. First, your memory appears to be off on pricing - MSiAs from Japan were never just $10. Second, it's apples to oranges on many levels. Assuming you're not counting the US released MSiA figures (which you shouldn't be) and you're also not factoring in the previously favorable dollar-to-yen exchange or inflation...

In 1999 the first MSiA, the RX-78-2, was a whopping Y1,000. That's about $12 dollars a decade ago for an entry-level piece of shit rubber bomb. Shortly after that the price point for MSiAs ran between Y1,500 to Y2,000. So the second MSiA version of the RX-78-2 was Y1,500 in 2004. But just two years later the latest iteration of the RX-78-2 was running Y2,000 while a more deluxe figure like the Nu Gundam was Y3,000. That's about $35. Four years after Nu Gundam and still none of the Revoltechs have hit the Y3,000 price point except for the book-package versions and the Zoids (with their hundreds-of-parts).

Now, take that decade worth of inflation and make it relative to the market. Ten years ago a $12 action figure was expensive. These days the price point for basic, mass-market figures around four inches tall is $8 and for anything larger than that it is between $15 to $20. That is just in the US. In the meantime, in the successor to the MSiA line, the Robot Spirits, there are less than a dozen figures cheaper than the most expensive non-Zoid Revoltechs. So today's MSiA figures are running, on average, about Y1,500 more than Revoltechs.

The only area where MSiA/RS and Revoltechs are comparable is that they are both smallish, highly poseable figures that come with lots of accessories. But it starts - and stops - there. You cannot compare the product of a company which is paying licensing fees for everything they produce to the product of a company for which all items are considered in-house properties. Bandai doesn't need to pay another company for MSiA or Robot Spirit figures. Kaiyodo has to incorporate those costs on every single item they make.

Moreover, Revoltech figures have more paint applications on average than MSiA or Robot Spirit figures. Hell, most of the RS figures are molded in color. So with Revoltechs you get more complex, and more expensive, paint processing being sold for less than figures cast in final colors.

Kaiyodo is selling a product which is more expensive to produce at a lower price point than Bandai. Revoltechs are cheap compared to what else is out there, but they're still on par with quality and cover a greater diversity of licenses. Plus you can put boobs on almost all of them!

When was the last time Bandai made a daikaiju with more than four points of articulation? Revoltech is already putting us balls deep in highly poseable daikaiju with awesome accessories. Now, Bandai is stepping up with the Ultra-Act figures - but Gomola is Y5,400. That's double the cost of Revoltech Baragon. I think you're way off base when complaining about cost/quality of Revoltechs, man. If you're getting any sting in the wallet it's because shit is just getting more expensive as we age and nostaliga is making us angry at TEH MARKET. Nobody is out there doing it better than Kaiyodo at the moment.
hillsy Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Revoltechs suck dick?


Only some, and then only if you get them drunk enough first.

Many just complain and say, "I don't like doing it because it's dirty," whenever you bring it up. Lame.
Figmas always seemed more...accommodating.

---------------------------------
[pgaijin.blogspot.com]
Sanjeev (Admin)
Gcrush Wrote:
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<economy stuff>

My bad. I shoulda been more clear about my meaning. I wasn't comparing the economy/value of MSiAs versus Revoltechs at all. I've actually never collected MSiAs (I just have a couple from random trades), so I wouldn't know the first thing about their pricing. And I know even less about Robot Spirits.

Throw out economy for a moment and look purely at what you have in your hands. I see Revoltechs as little better than MSiAs from the standpoint of "quality action figure". Just because Revoltechs have sharper molded details, more diverse materials, and more paint ops, they both ultimately amount to pretty crummy action figures in my book. Not the worst things in the world, but nothing I'd really want to collect...

Now, let's bring economy back in. As far as action figures go, look at GI Joe guys or Star Wars guys from the 80's. Adjusted for inflation and all that, I'd say they were still shy of $10 in today's dollars. And there was really little to complain about with them. They were no less posable (well, GI Joe's anyway), ALL the joints were nice and sturdy right out of the package (sorry, you're just NOT going to get that with any Revoltech), and the overall toy was much more durable. I'd consider that the "perfect" action figure...and they were SO much cheaper. [As an aside, I've handled a few modern GI Joes and Star Wars figures...pretty bad! Way to go, Hasbro: one step forward, two steps back.]

But it's good that you bring up the licensing issue. That's totally true, and I forgot to consider that before. Obviously, that makes a huge difference. Still, if I'm paying over $30 for a fucking action figure (which, in and of itself, is absurd), then I better be getting fuck-damn pristine quality right out of the package. EVERY Revoltech I've ever owned or handled has had two or more bum joints upon hitting the open air. That's just not acceptable.
Keep in mind Kaiyodo has its roots as a garage kit maker, so their 'company mindset' is more focused to smaller runs and higher margins.

Point of order on the MSiA. 10 years ago a 1000 Yen item was roughly $8 USD. That first Gundam (and Zaku) MSiA was a 'loss leader' release, similar to the upcoming Mazinger Z. The average price for MSiA seemed to be 1500 Yen with it eventually creeping up to the 2000 Yen level. OTOH as the price went up the articulation also increased, and there was just a LOT more PVC used with the Char's Counterattack MS. The Nu Gundam and Sasabi are HEAVY suckers!

I still regret Bandai America killing the line with the overuse of the 'battle damaged' nonsense. I wanted those Zeta Gundam MS to have an American release, but then again Bandai so totally screwed up the whole Zeta In America launch...bah,
Vincent Z. Wrote:
> > a special version of the box,
> > larger, with multiple compartments
>
> I think they have just that. Look in the latest
> catalogs that come with the figures to see what I
> mean.

I'm not going to buy one of the latest Revoltechs just to see what you're talking about. Anywhere ELSE one can see a picture of this product?


Gcrush Wrote:
>
> Moreover, Revoltech figures have more paint
> applications on average than MSiA or Robot Spirit
> figures. Hell, most of the RS figures are molded
> in color. So with Revoltechs you get more
> complex, and more expensive, paint processing
> being sold for less than figures cast in final
> colors.

And yet BOTH lines have really shitty paint quality as the norm :(


Sanjeev Wrote:
>
> Now, let's bring economy back in. As far as action
> figures go, look at GI Joe guys or Star Wars guys
> from the 80's. Adjusted for inflation and all
> that, I'd say they were still shy of $10 in
> today's dollars. And there was really little to
> complain about with them. They were no less
> posable (well, GI Joe's anyway), ALL the joints
> were nice and sturdy right out of the package
> (sorry, you're just NOT going to get that with any
> Revoltech), and the overall toy was much more
> durable. I'd consider that the "perfect" action
> figure...and they were SO much cheaper. modern GI
> Joes and Star Wars figures...pretty bad! Way to
> go, Hasbro: one step forward, two steps back.]

Wow, I get what you're trying to say about 80s GIJ and SW figures being "sturdier" because they're made of hard plastic, but don't forget that EVERY SINGLE GI JOE EVER before the mid-90s is at MAJOR risk for both of its thumbs to break off completely, just from the normal action of putting its guns into its hands. That's completely ruined hands, basically unrepairable, rendering the figure almost useless. This is a flaw that continued from the inception of the 3 3/4" GI Joe line for over a decade. And that's not even getting into the issue of replacing the waist O-ring... You're looking at this stuff through rose-colored glasses. You gotta recognize that.

I'm also unsure what you mean about the old GIJs having better articulation than modern figures. Just comparing the Joes... universal shoulders and elbows, ball hips, ball neck, hinge knees and rubber-band waist is not the same as universal joints in the shoulders, elbows, hips, knees, ankles, rotating wrists, ball joints in the chest as well as the neck... the modern 3 3/4" Hasbro lines have twice the articulation of any 80s GIJ, and it makes a huge difference. The difference is even bigger in the Star Wars line. Compare the Episode 1 figures, which largely had the same articulation as the 80s figures, to the Episode 3 stuff... it's an enormous leap.

I'm also not sure why GIJ and Star Wars figures are a logical comparison to Revoltech, since the average Revoltech has a lot more plastic in it.

-Paul Segal

"Oh, the anger is never far, never far." -SteveH
> Sanjeev Wrote:
> >
> > They were no less
> > posable (well, GI Joe's anyway), ALL the joints
> > were nice and sturdy right out of the package
> > (sorry, you're just NOT going to get that with
> any
> > Revoltech), and the overall toy was much more
> > durable.
>
> Wow, I get what you're trying to say about 80s GIJ
> and SW figures being "sturdier" because they're
> made of hard plastic, but don't forget that EVERY
> SINGLE GI JOE EVER before the mid-90s is at MAJOR
> risk for both of its thumbs to break off
> completely, just from the normal action of putting
> its guns into its hands. That's completely ruined
> hands, basically unrepairable, rendering the
> figure almost useless. This is a flaw that
> continued from the inception of the 3 3/4" GI Joe
> line for over a decade. And that's not even
> getting into the issue of replacing the waist
> O-ring...
>
That rubber band is the reason I never got into vintage Joe collecting, even though I much prefer the older chunky spirit to the modern stylings of the 25th line. You've got people paying thousands of dollars for MOC figures that may have already-crumbled O-rings. You could say the same thing about oxidation/rust on vintage Japanese robots, but that's not the sort of issue that's gonna break a toy in half.

On the other hand, the rubbery plastic of the 25th figures is annoying as hell.
Sanjeev (Admin)
asterphage Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> ...EVERY
> SINGLE GI JOE EVER before the mid-90s is at MAJOR
> risk for both of its thumbs to break off
> completely, just from the normal action of putting
> its guns into its hands.

You sure you're not thinking of Matchbox's Robotech action figure line??? Hahaha! Nah, honestly, I don't believe you. I have a few vintage Joes (bashed to hell and back from my youth, and a couple nicer ones I bought loose offa eBay)...and NONE of them have issues with their thumbs.

In fact, my old co-worker who's a HUGE Joe nut (had a fucking Cobra Rattler on his desk for the longest time!) had shitload of them on his desk, and I never saw an problems with them (yes, we messed around with them a lot, swapping out weapons and whatnot).

I have heard of this problem, though, so I definitely believe it exists. I'm guessing, however, that maybe it's a problem with age? Like, maybe the plastic has become brittle over time in some cases. I don't recall this ever being a problem out of the package back in the 80's...

> And that's not even
> getting into the issue of replacing the waist
> O-ring...

Again, this is an age problem. On one of the vintage Joes I got offa eBay recently, the o-ring crumbled almost immediately. It takes about 2-1/2 minutes of work to unscrew the chest and replace it with a fresh rubber band, by the way.

And besides, who cares? We're not really talking about how these toys will hold up 25 years after they're manufactured. I thought the point of discussion was the merits of their design...and, thus, how "fun" they are when they're right off the card or outta the box.

> You're looking at this stuff through
> rose-colored glasses. You gotta recognize that.

Well...not really. I was never that into GI Joes...OR Star Wars figures. I literally had three Star Wars figures growing up (never got that into the movies or the toys)...and I was always a TF guy, not a GI Joe fan. I only had a few Joes growing up and they were all gifts (yes, I would grumble at not getting a TF!). I've only recently come to appreciate Joes for their durable, playable designs.


> I'm also unsure what you mean about the old GIJs
> having better articulation than modern figures.
> Just comparing the Joes... universal shoulders and
> elbows, ball hips, ball neck, hinge knees and
> rubber-band waist is not the same as universal
> joints in the shoulders, elbows, hips, knees,
> ankles, rotating wrists, ball joints in the chest
> as well as the neck... the modern 3 3/4" Hasbro
> lines have twice the articulation of any 80s GIJ,
> and it makes a huge difference. The difference is
> even bigger in the Star Wars line. Compare the
> Episode 1 figures, which largely had the same
> articulation as the 80s figures, to the Episode 3
> stuff... it's an enormous leap.
>
> I'm also not sure why GIJ and Star Wars figures
> are a logical comparison to Revoltech, since the
> average Revoltech has a lot more plastic in it.

Damn, that's the second time in this thread I've thoroughly confused someone about my arguments. Man, I suck!

I'm not comparing vintage 80's Joes to modern Joes. I actually think the modern ones suck...but that's irrelevant to this conversation. What I'm saying is that, pound for pound, 80's Joes are way more fun, in my opinion, than Revoltechs (again, not accounting for 25 years of decay...leper thumbs and crumbling o-rings are not relevant).

Now, you could say that the intent of the two toy lines are different. Revoltechs are the "adult collector's" idea of an action figure. They're meant to be taken off the shelf, posed differently, and put back carefully. GI Joe's were meant to be played with by kids.

So...maybe my comparison's not really fair...but at the end of the day, 1) they're both "action figures" to me; 2) I'm not a big fan of "action figures"; and 3) as far as "action figures" go, Revoltechs are far less fun and way more expensive than other existing lines of "action figures".

Oh, and Revoltechs are fiddly. ;)
Sanjeev Wrote:
> asterphage Wrote:
> > ...EVERY SINGLE GI JOE EVER before the mid-90s is at
> > MAJOR risk for both of its thumbs to break off
> > completely, just from the normal action of
> > putting its guns into its hands.
>
> You sure you're not thinking of Matchbox's
> Robotech action figure line??? Hahaha! Nah,
> honestly, I don't believe you. I have a few
> vintage Joes (bashed to hell and back from my
> youth, and a couple nicer ones I bought loose offa
> eBay)...and NONE of them have issues with their
> thumbs.

About half of my childhood Joes had their thumbs break off. I'd say that in my experience, when I find boxes of old Joes owned by actual children, it's about a fifty percent thumb breakage rate. I know we as adults (and some of us as children) are much more careful with our toys, but I feel certain that the standard design of the vintage Joe hand is poorly designed to fit the great variety of weapon handles in the line, and the plastic on many of the figures is too brittle for that thumb to stand up to a lot of play.


> Damn, that's the second time in this thread I've
> thoroughly confused someone about my arguments.
> Man, I suck!
>
> I'm not comparing vintage 80's Joes to modern
> Joes. I actually think the modern ones suck...but
> that's irrelevant to this conversation.

Well, when you say
"They were no less posable (well, GI Joe's anyway), "
It's easy to get confused. Because whether you're comparing vintage Joes to Revoltechs, modern Joes or whatever, in most cases the vintage Joes actually ARE less posable.

-Paul Segal

"Oh, the anger is never far, never far." -SteveH
Sanjeev (Admin)
asterphage Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> About half of my childhood Joes had their thumbs
> break off. I'd say that in my experience, when I
> find boxes of old Joes owned by actual children,
> it's about a fifty percent thumb breakage rate.

You're putting me on. C'mon...I just did a quick eBay search for something like "vintage GI Joe figure", and then I added "broke, broken thumb" (searching descriptions, of course), and a fraction of the original number popped up. I dunno...I've just never heard or seen of this epidemic. I'll ask Kent...if anyone's qualified to speak on 80's Joes, it's that motherfucker.

I do agree, though: the design was kinda suspect because the figures would never hold their rifles perfectly straight unless the stock was jammed up in their armpits! Haha!

But anyway...again, breakage has nothing to do with this topic UNLESS this alleged epidemic occurred back in the 80's (when these toys WERE actively being played with). And I just don't believe that.

> Well, when you say
> "They were no less posable (well, GI Joe's
> anyway), "
> It's easy to get confused.

I hear ya. Whoops.

> Because whether you're
> comparing vintage Joes to Revoltechs, modern Joes
> or whatever, in most cases the vintage Joes
> actually ARE less posable.

Again, I dunno about that. Yeah, 80's Joes can't crotch-thrust. But they can stand up straight.
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