My blog!

Posted by Vincent Z. 
Well, I am into a niche subjects I guess. My interests are too focused though.

Apparently, people who are into anime hate when non Japanese people draw try like it (not that's going to stop me).

There seems to be allot of dislike for those that partake in fanart here in the U.S. where in Japan, there's some people who make a living (yes, a living) off of selling there stuff at Comiket.

If there's incentive for people to try to better their art, then maybe we'd see some thing like Comiket here.

Higurashi (I can never recall the full title), was started by one man who sold his doujin games at places like Comiket and now it is its own franchise of toys, manga and anime.

In the meantime, I'm going to start a course in medical billing because I think it'll be the best thing for someone like me who knows that at least when I'm done there will be a job for me (even this this shit economy).

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I asked if I have "Time For L-Gaim" but I got "No Reply From The Wind".
Vince, the first half of your post is off the wall. It's like you've never absorbed any of the comments Matt or others have made here. People who live in Japan have explained the phenomena with which you are fascinated in pretty specific language. Yet you don't get it. Amazing.

If the Law of Parallel Weirdness applies here, there exists some Japanese girl who doesn't speak English, has never left Japan, eats hamburgers and french fries, paints a bunch of crappy looking watercolor teddy bears all day long, and posts about it on her favorite My Little Pony message board. And people always tell her, "Look, the paintings aren't so hot. Work on your technique. But in the meantime, you should know there really isn't a market for teddy bear art like yours in Japan. It's immature and way too niche. You cannot make a living at it."

And then she always replies, "Yeah, but there are some people in the United States who made fortunes painting teddy bears for Hallmark cards! You just don't get it - watercolor teddy bears are where it's at! You just hate it because your over-sexualized liberal sensibilities are out of touch with cutting-edge art. These teddy bears are tender, loving, and traditional expressions of affection! Pervs!" Vince, she is your soul-mate and you need to find her.

Now, the last note about getting into medical billing is a light in the dark. It may not be what you want, but you could save up enough money to go to Japan and check out the scene for yourself. Take a couple of courses in Japanese, too. Get ready for it. It will be an eye-opening experience for you. And hopefully you'll meet the girl I described above.

Provided she's not on a plane to New York at the same time you're zooming over the Pacific.
Erik Sjoen (Admin)
cae. best post ever ...
Gcrush Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> If the Law of Parallel Weirdness applies here,
> there exists some Japanese girl who doesn't speak
> English, has never left Japan, eats hamburgers and
> french fries, paints a bunch of crappy looking
> watercolor teddy bears all day long, and posts
> about it on her favorite My Little Pony message
> board. And people always tell her, "Look, the
> paintings aren't so hot. Work on your technique.
> But in the meantime, you should know there really
> isn't a market for teddy bear art like yours in
> Japan. It's immature and way too niche. You
> cannot make a living at it."

Actually, I think Matt knows this girl. She's in her twenties and she's really earnest about a Jem fanfiction manga that she's working on. (I am not joking, hopefully Matt will weigh in.)
Just this piece:

Vincent Z. Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------

> Apparently, people who are into anime hate when
> non Japanese people draw try like it (not that's
> going to stop me).
>

Vince, have you ever looked at DeviantArt? There's loads and loads of people there making anime-style drawings, and not getting shit for it! Lots of them also do commissions...

Heck, I know about one French guy (sorry, can't remember his name right now) who makes such nice Saint Seiya fan art that he has trouble keeping other people from using it on websites and even French DVD covers because they think it's actually official art.


Now I know there's certain fucktard US (and other country) anime fans who don't like non-Japanese anime art, but they're essentially the animefan-equivalent of the "TRUKK-NOT-MUNKY"-Transfan. Aka retards best left ignored.

Oh, and cae is right.

--
SilhouetteFormula.Net



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 01/06/2009 06:23AM by thomas.
Well, the blog isn't just a place for my art but also rare anime uploads (basically, shit that was either once released a long out of print of stuff that'll never come out). Plus any random thoughts I have.

I have an account on Art Bistro but I've considered one for deviantart as well. There's some good artists there but a ton of lousy ones as well.

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I asked if I have "Time For L-Gaim" but I got "No Reply From The Wind".
Gcrush Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Vince, the first half of your post is off the
> wall. It's like you've never absorbed any of the
> comments Matt or others have made here. People
> who live in Japan have explained the phenomena
> with which you are fascinated in pretty specific
> language. Yet you don't get it. Amazing.
>
> If the Law of Parallel Weirdness applies here,
> there exists some Japanese girl who doesn't speak
> English, has never left Japan, eats hamburgers and
> french fries, paints a bunch of crappy looking
> watercolor teddy bears all day long, and posts
> about it on her favorite My Little Pony message
> board. And people always tell her, "Look, the
> paintings aren't so hot. Work on your technique.
> But in the meantime, you should know there really
> isn't a market for teddy bear art like yours in
> Japan. It's immature and way too niche. You
> cannot make a living at it."
>
> And then she always replies, "Yeah, but there are
> some people in the United States who made fortunes
> painting teddy bears for Hallmark cards! You just
> don't get it - watercolor teddy bears are where
> it's at! You just hate it because your
> over-sexualized liberal sensibilities are out of
> touch with cutting-edge art. These teddy bears
> are tender, loving, and traditional expressions of
> affection! Pervs!" Vince, she is your soul-mate
> and you need to find her.
>
> Now, the last note about getting into medical
> billing is a light in the dark. It may not be
> what you want, but you could save up enough money
> to go to Japan and check out the scene for
> yourself. Take a couple of courses in Japanese,
> too. Get ready for it. It will be an eye-opening
> experience for you. And hopefully you'll meet the
> girl I described above.
>
> Provided she's not on a plane to New York at the
> same time you're zooming over the Pacific.

Gcrush: I laughed so hard at this that I cried...honestly...I want to print it out and hand give it to all of my students who fancy themselves as the first great American manga-ka (an oxymoron if I ever heard one...)

You could not be more right...I have worked in the visual arts biz for a long time and let me tell you nobody (and by nobody I mean NOBODY) makes a living drawing whatever they like. The reality of illustration is that 90% of the work available is done by fantastically talented people drawing stuff that they wouldn't put their name on if it weren't for the sake of their resumes...
fel9 Wrote:
> Gcrush: I laughed so hard at this that I
> cried...honestly...I want to print it out and hand
> give it to all of my students who fancy themselves
> as the first great American manga-ka (an oxymoron
> if I ever heard one...)
>
> You could not be more right...I have worked in the
> visual arts biz for a long time and let me tell
> you nobody (and by nobody I mean NOBODY) makes a
> living drawing whatever they like. The reality of
> illustration is that 90% of the work available is
> done by fantastically talented people drawing
> stuff that they wouldn't put their name on if it
> weren't for the sake of their resumes...


Glad you liked it. In a former life I was a graphic artist. It was awesome. Meeting with strip bar owners to discuss the finer points of visual design for their next "gentleman's lap dance souvenir t-shirt" was riveting. But I eventually got tired of doing things like ripping off Playboy covers. And drawing pigs for BBQ restaurants. You know how many sons of bitches want a dancing pig in an apron, chef hat, and sunglasses on their logo? A fuck lot. But it only takes one too many to make you quit. If only they had been fan-service anime pigs... I would have found my true calling.

Also, I know the watercolor teddy bear lady. The American one who makes her (ridiculously lucrative) living at it. A little bit of me dies every time I talk to her. Every art student needs to have a little bit of themselves similarly executed. It's good psychiatric medicine.
Oh, goddamnit - that last post got me thinking. We need to make a real learning experience out of this...

VINCE! I WANT TO COMMISSION YOU TO MAKE AN ILLUSTRATION!

I WILL PAYPAL YOU $5 FOR AN ANIME FAN-SERVICE ILLUSTRATION OF THE ENTIRE CAST OF "PIGS IN SPACE".

If you take the time to color it, I'll send you an additional $5. Post the final drawing here and send me a PM with your Paypal email address so I can wire you the loot. This is a serious offer. Deal? Deal. Now get cracking! I want to see that slutty pigs knickers! (You all know the one I'm talking about.)

And don't try to pass off any bullshit like the last guy I commissioned.





Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 01/06/2009 07:56PM by Gcrush.
Attachments:
open | download - your mom in space.jpg (122.5 KB)
Sound like what you want is I shouldn't be drawing for the sake of it.

IMO I feel that there's two types of people is this world. There's consumers and creators. Consumers THINK they know what an artist should be about since they might be the ones buying but have no feel of what goes in the creator's mind. A creator who may not have perfected his/hers skills, will still want to create whatever comes to mind and there's nothing stopping that person.

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I asked if I have "Time For L-Gaim" but I got "No Reply From The Wind".
Vincent Z. Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Sound like what you want is I shouldn't be drawing
> for the sake of it.
>
> IMO I feel that there's two types of people is
> this world. There's consumers and creators.
> Consumers THINK they know what an artist should be
> about since they might be the ones buying but have
> no feel of what goes in the creator's mind. A
> creator who may not have perfected his/hers
> skills, will still want to create whatever comes
> to mind and there's nothing stopping that person.


GODDAMNIT VINCE! Stop not-listening to what we are saying. Did you ever consider that the line between consumers and creators is hardly as clear cut as you make it sound? Stop being so simplistic.

And are you going to draw my "Pigs in Space" homage or not?



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 01/06/2009 08:00PM by Gcrush.
No, alright.

--------------------------------------------------------------

I asked if I have "Time For L-Gaim" but I got "No Reply From The Wind".
Vincent Z. Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> No, alright.


That's bullshit. Just do it already. You need to be able to adapt different subject material into your style. This is a serious exercise. If anime fan-service aesthetics cannot accommodate anything other than anime fan-service, it's already dead. Take a moment to learn something. Take it!
cae
Do not crush the Vince - we just had the carpets cleaned.

---------------------------------
hassenpfeffer
I betcha he'll squeal like a pig. A pig in space.
Gcrush Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
>
> Glad you liked it. In a former life I was a
> graphic artist. It was awesome. Meeting with
> strip bar owners to discuss the finer points of
> visual design for their next "gentleman's lap
> dance souvenir t-shirt" was riveting. But I
> eventually got tired of doing things like ripping
> off Playboy covers. And drawing pigs for BBQ
> restaurants. You know how many sons of bitches
> want a dancing pig in an apron, chef hat, and
> sunglasses on their logo? A fuck lot. But it
> only takes one too many to make you quit. If only
> they had been fan-service anime pigs... I would
> have found my true calling.
>
> Also, I know the watercolor teddy bear lady. The
> American one who makes her (ridiculously
> lucrative) living at it. A little bit of me dies
> every time I talk to her. Every art student needs
> to have a little bit of themselves similarly
> executed. It's good psychiatric medicine.

Man, I feel you on the stupid pig thing (I do live in Atlanta) What made me bail on the graphic design was incompetent art directors who felt that the only way to justify their paychecks was to take a layout, comp, final and screw it up beyond all recognition...Yeah but the crazy thing about the teddy bear lady is that while she make a lucrative living of those damn teddy bears she probably never drew one until someone asked her to do it, which brings me to...

Vincce: Hey look, I get it if you don't want to do the drawing, but what Gcrush is proposing is a very realistic offer if you are in the least bit interested in commercial design. Is it dumb? Yes...Is it demeaning of you abilities? Yes...Is he offering to pay you? Yes...so, in essence, it is what thousands of graphic artists do everyday. When I worked in the biz for every cool package design I got to do there were a thousand Kroger brand vanilla wafer packages. You know what though? I did them because they were paying jobs and I got to write Graphic design for the Kroger Corporation on my resume, and it was years of doing stuff like that that has landed me my current position...which is about the coolest job in the world...Hey, had Gcrush offered to pay me what I charge these days for a workup on a design I'd do it in a heartbeat...
MattAlt (Admin)
> Consumers THINK they know what an artist should be
> about since they might be the ones buying but have
> no feel of what goes in the creator's mind. A
> creator ...will create whatever comes
> to mind and there's nothing stopping that person.

There's absolutely nothing wrong with "creating whatever comes to mind," but you're the one who's asked, several times, for help reaching a broader following. A creator who doesn't consider his audience before creating is doomed to find an audience of one: himself. If you really want to grow, you need to get out of your comfort zone.
MattAlt Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> If you really want to
> grow, you need to get out of your comfort zone.

And to follow up on what Matt said, you have to realize that most of what you post takes people out of _their_ comfort zone.

As they say in Japan, you're in a dilly of a pickle.
I wanted to post what someone said on art bistro about me.

"A lot of your illiustrations are ones that many would love to be able or want to do but few actually will and then post them. Thanks for sharing."

I think the most important thing is being true to yourself.

Besides, what about the mecha designs I do?

There aren't as many posted as the cute sexy girl stuff because mecha designing take more planning. I'm a crazy perfectionist to detail and getting it just right so I do
a lot more sketching for that stuff than final completed pieces.

--------------------------------------------------------------

I asked if I have "Time For L-Gaim" but I got "No Reply From The Wind".
Vince,

I'm an artist myself. I realized long ago that with the sort of pieces I like to create, I wasn't going to be making any money being an artist. I also realized that I didn't want to try making other people's visions of "art" for money. Taking something I really enjoy doing (when I have the time) and turning it into something I would just sort of tolerate because I had to make a living wasn't my idea of a great time. I'd much rather keep my thorough enjoyment of the artistic process as a creative outlet for my own self, and find other work that I can feel OK about as a way to make money. This doesn't mean I feel as if doing commercial artwork is beneath me or anything. I just have found over the years that doing work for money takes all the fun out of it. It turns it into - GASP - work!

Also, recognize that making art for other people's sake means accepting that you WILL have to take into account THEIR tastes in art, not yours. If, like me, you want pretty much only do make things that you want to make, expect not to make money doing so. A few bucks here and there, maybe, on commissioned pieces that some people with similar tastes may want, but you're not going to make a living off of the subject matter you clearly enjoy. The market for it is just not there (IMHO).

My point here is, if you're going to try to be an artist for money, make sure you can do so without losing the enjoyment of your creative process. So, either accept that you need to make the piece that someone else brings to you, or look for other work and keep your enjoyment of the creative process as your own.

Also, what you're doing in this conversation isn't very scientific fact-finding. What you've got in your mind is an end result you'd like to see, and instead of taking the advice of many people who have been down this road professionally, you're instead looking for validation of your own view. You may not like what they're telling you, but they're not saying it because they don't like your subject matter. They're saying it because they know what the world of commercial art is like and they can see that your attitudes towards it just aren't going to lead to your success. My advice here is - take THEIR advice.

More serious than thou
Vincent Z. Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> I think the most important thing is being true to
> yourself.

It depends on what your goal is. If your goal is just to satisfy yourself, then all you need to do is be true to yourself. If your goal is to get other people to look at your art, then you have to consider what they'd like to see, and realize that they're not you.

Look at it this way: there's probably some moe artist in Japan who would rather be drawing World War 1-era tanks for historical publications, but since he's good at drawing little girls in maid outfits and he's getting paid for it, that's what he's doing. Is he being true to himself? Is he eating?
Vincent Z. Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------

> Besides, what about the mecha designs I do?
>

They suck. You have no idea what you're doing. Stop trying to be like Nagano.
Oh you don't like anything I do so why bother getting approval from you.

I've been drawing all my life. Why do you think I'll stop for elitists like many here are?

Can't you just like what you see

AT fujikuro-I know you're trying to help and I realize that making compromises is the only way to make it in the art business. I know now that I'll have to get a real career (medical billing possibly), but I'll still keep the hope that my art will be noticed by someone.

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I asked if I have "Time For L-Gaim" but I got "No Reply From The Wind".



Edited 3 time(s). Last edit at 01/08/2009 10:43PM by Vincent Z..
Also, I realize that people have different tastes and that I shouldn't force my work onto those that don't care for it. I don't mind criticism if it's helpful.

>Stop trying to be like Nagano.

I don't want it too be TOO like his stuff.

--------------------------------------------------------------

I asked if I have "Time For L-Gaim" but I got "No Reply From The Wind".



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 01/08/2009 11:26PM by Vincent Z..
"I've been drawing all my life. Why do you think I'll stop for elitists like many here are?
Can't you just like what you see "

OR

"Also, I realize that people have different tastes and that I shouldn't force my work onto those that don't care for it. I don't mind criticism if it's helpful."


Make up your mind, dude.

If were such elitists, why pimp your art here, then? Bad attention better than no attention?

---------------------------------
[pgaijin.blogspot.com]
That's what I don't get - why come back for more if all you get is somebody telling you things you don't want to hear?

More serious than thou
I dunno. I guess because I've been here so long and it's one of the only few message boards I post on. I really don't know much else.

But hey, I can still talk toys I guess.

--------------------------------------------------------------

I asked if I have "Time For L-Gaim" but I got "No Reply From The Wind".
Either Vince is trolling us or he really is a shithead. Looking at your own art should tell you how bad you are. You draw worse than that "Mistakes of Youth" guy. Maybe you should start a shitty webcomic. Look at Tim Buckley, his art is shit but people keep reading his shitty comic.
No, I do draw better than him. But at least the MOY guy has no problem with what he draws.

Nobody complained about the technical aspect of my art when I was at SVA.

Yes, I do know what I'm doing when I draw.

What do you have against artists VF5SS?

You didn't even like the art for Lucky Star and the mangaka is getting his house renovated to look like Konata's. I shit you not.

Artists tend to understand other artists (creators) Consumers think they know art but have no clue because they don't make anything, only consume.

--------------------------------------------------------------

I asked if I have "Time For L-Gaim" but I got "No Reply From The Wind".



Edited 3 time(s). Last edit at 01/09/2009 09:46AM by Vincent Z..
Vincent Z. Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> No, I do draw better than him.

You're the same kind weeaboo fetish shithead with the sames shitty weeaboo art.

> Nobody complained about the technical aspect of my
> art when I was at SVA.

Then they were lying to you.

> Yes, I do know what I'm doing when I draw.

Then stop sucking.

> What do you have against artists VF5SS?

Nothing. It's a good thing thing you're not an artist.

> You didn't even like the art for Lucky Star and
> the mangaka is getting his house renovated to look
> like Konata's. I shit you not.

The freak getting trying to be more a freak for the sake of his shitty moe 4koma has nothing to do with his art.

> Artists tend to understand other artists
> (creators) Consumers think they know art but have
> no clue because they don't make anything, only
> consume.

Fuck you Vinnie, you're not an artist. You're the same kind of deviantart shithead who thinks that drawing like a deranged teenager is acceptable.

Now go draw some more pregnant anime girls to make yourself feel better. I triple dog dare you.
Vincent Z. Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
>
> Artists tend to understand other artists
> (creators) Consumers think they know art but have
> no clue because they don't make anything, only
> consume.

I am not even going to waste my time trying to explain everything that is wrong with this statement...

Vince: Were you ever an art student in a University? If so what did your Professors tell you about your work? Did you try to bend their assignments to fit what you enjoy drawing or were the assignments so open ended that you could do whatever you liked? If you were an art student why are you now not an art student...Did you finish a degree?
School of Visual Arts and yes I graduated in 2005. Yes, for some assignments I had to do what they wanted, others generally allowed me to do what I wanted.

VF5SS-Then you generally think anime art in general sucks anyway. Please don't curse at me. Alright? As I said, criticism it fine but out right telling someone they suck is not helpful or productive.

I love this guys art. Yes, that's what I aspire to. Don't like it? TOUGH.

[diary.fc2.com]

People should have the freedom to make whatever. If it's "creepy" fetishes than fine. That person is honest. That's why doujin art is the most pure since there's no company telling them what they should or shouldn't draw. And there's a market for that and some won't realize that.

--------------------------------------------------------------

I asked if I have "Time For L-Gaim" but I got "No Reply From The Wind".



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 01/09/2009 12:28PM by Vincent Z..
Vincent Z. Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------

> VF5SS-Then you generally think anime art sucks
> anyway.

No, I think your anime art sucks. You show no promise and no signs of improving. Give up now.
No, this is what I love. And yes I have been improving.

Stop this please, ok?

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I asked if I have "Time For L-Gaim" but I got "No Reply From The Wind".
Vincent Z. Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
>
> Stop this please, ok?

I only wish it would...

More serious than thou
"Artists tend to understand other artists (creators) Consumers think they know art but have no clue because they don't make anything, only consume".



Vince, I am not even sure why I am perpetuating this thread, as it has become a pretty unhealthy one...but.

Look, your not a kid. You have to start thinking like an adult if you want to actually make it in the field you seem passionate about. I graduated RISD in 97' with a degree in painting and Illustration, but I found the field to be incredibly competitive and hard to maintain in terms of a steady paycheck, so I got into the design world and have been designing product for well over 12 years for a lot of professional companies like Adidas, Reebok, Puma etc. I was idealistic at the start of my career,and probably a bit naive... and still have dreams of getting paid to do what I want, but have to temper that with a realism that in order to make it in this industry..you have to understand it is a job, and despite what you may want to do on your own time, you are creating a product for consumers. What changed my thinking as a teenager, was when I realized the works of Davinci amd of Michealangelo (among many many others) were those for a paying customer...even if it was a church or a wealthy patron.

If you simply want to draw for your self, you have that right, and should do so to hone your craft, but do not be so idealistic or rather, unrealistic to expect it is the same thing as a career in illustrating. It is not at all. You have to always compromise to a degree...but what makes a good designer is one who can work within the confines and still make great product. Selling to the converted is not something thats going to help you evolve. Your work can be a part of you, but it also needs to speak to a broader audience in order to be effective. otherwise you just drawing fanboy stuff for other fanboys...and even though there are those like Crumb, who have made a career out of drawing what they feel strongly about...you still need to get yourself to a place that proves to a potential client that you can do things under direction...otherwise why would they pay you?

I know the restrictions can suck, but your not 18 man. If you want to do this, you have to suck it up and work your ass off to get there. I am friend with a lot of artists..some pretty well established, but it took the effort to pay their dues to get there. I don't think you have reached that point yet. But you must change your passive aggressive attitude to get there . No client or boss will put up with it. Sorry.

It makes sense to have a backup plan, but you might also consider putting a realistic plan together for yourself, and set short and long term goals for yourself if you really want this.

Your time would be better spent working on this, and rethinking what it is you want to achieve, than spending so much time looking for validation in a place that has already given you a big amount of feedback. Yeah, some of it is harsh, but thats life Vince. What you choose to do with the info is what is going to define yourself these next few years. Good luck.
I have been trying to brake into the art business but it's tough. A comic company that I was working with from 2006-7 went out of business. There wasn't even payment for the work me and a writer did. It totally pissed me off but I also understand that the economic environment is not good. Usually in time like this, visual creative media is the first to go.

Being real world minded and admitting that I'll have to train for a regular job is the toughest thing I had to do since it's usually not admit when my choice was wrong.

So, I'll still draw. Whether or not it goes anywhere is to be scene.

--------------------------------------------------------------

I asked if I have "Time For L-Gaim" but I got "No Reply From The Wind".
"I have been trying to brake into the art business but it's tough. A comic company that I was working with from 2006-7 went out of business. There wasn't even payment for the work me and a writer did. It totally pissed me off but I also understand that the economic environment is not good. Usually in time like this, visual creative media is the first to go".



Vince, the point I am trying to make, is you need to work harder than that to break into the field. 2007 was two years ago . It sucks the place went out of buisness, but You have to go be going to many other places every day and sell yourself to make it work.


I ran my own design firm in Hong Kong last year...I never rested to make it work.It was the hardest thing I have done in my life. Did I want to do half the work I did..no, and was it ultimately what I wanted...no, but I am thankful for the experience. I learned from the failures. So, to think you can push yourself a little and expect results is frankly nuts man. Your not going to be discovered, you make it happen with lots and lots of legwork. Period. The visual arts require you to put sleep on the back burner and be insanely pushy and proactive. First and foremost you have to sell yourself. No one is going to look for you. In my opinion, this kind of work is the most demanding, but the most needed. Sure you can think about doing a day job, but you might consider using some of that money to take more and more courses, and not just technical skill based one...take marketing and sales classes..Buisness classes. The best artists are the ones that can think on both sides of the fence. Also making as many contacts at as many shows and conventions as you can. Ask, ask ask, and constantly be critical of yourself.It is what will push you to be competitive.


Ok enough bs from me.
"Break" and "seen", dude...

---------------------------------
[pgaijin.blogspot.com]
Erik Sjoen (Admin)
I still think VZ in Yappy. You guys are really wasting your breath.
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