I'm from New England and I'm Pissed Off!

Posted by BigD 
I know this board is mainly for toys and collectibles and what not, but this whole 'gettin' caught cheating thing' has pissed me OFF. I know most of my friends are toy/geek fans (which is NOT an INSULT!) also watch sports too so they HAVE to be as upset an irate as much as I am. For those that don't know or still things Reagan's in office...

NFL fines Belichick, strips Patriots of draft pick / Associated Press
NEW YORK -- Roger Goodell's hard line on discipline, aimed so far at players, came down this time on a coach and a team.

The commissioner also ordered the team to give up next year's first-round draft choice if it reaches the playoffs and second- and third-round picks if it doesn't. If the Patriots lose their first-rounder next season they still will have a first-round pick, obtained from San Francisco in the deal that brought Moss from Oakland. "This episode represents a calculated and deliberate attempt to avoid longstanding rules designed to encourage fair play and promote honest competition on the playing field," Goodell said in a letter to the Patriots.
Reached at his home, Patriots owner Robert Kraft declined to comment.
The videotaping came to light after a camera was confiscated from Patriots video assistant Matt Estrella while he was on the New York Jets' sideline during New England's 38-14 win last Sunday at Giants Stadium.
The Jets issued a statement saying, "We support the commissioner and his findings. The focus of our organization remains on the upcoming game against Baltimore."

The NFL said the camera was seized before the end of the first quarter and had no impact on the game.

Goodell said he considered suspending Belichick but didn't "largely because I believe that the discipline I am imposing of a maximum fine and forfeiture of a first-round draft choice, or multiple draft choices, is in fact more significant and long-lasting, and therefore more effective, than a suspension."
New England, strengthened by the addition of Randy Moss and two other first-rate wide receivers as well as linebacker Adalius Thomas, is considered one of the favorites to win the Super Bowl for the fourth time since the 2001 season.
NFL rules state "no video recording devices of any kind are permitted to be in use in the coaches' booth, on the field, or in the locker room during the game." They also say all video for coaching purposes must be shot from locations "enclosed on all sides with a roof overhead."

That was re-emphasized in a memo sent Sept. 6 to NFL head coaches and general managers. In it, Ray Anderson, the league's executive vice president of football operations wrote: "Videotaping of any type, including but not limited to taping of an opponent's offensive or defensive signals, is prohibited on the sidelines, in the coaches' booth, in the locker room, or at any other locations accessible to club staff members during the game."

The NFL statement said Goodell believed Patriots owner Robert Kraft was unaware of Belichick's actions.

But it said the commissioner believed penalties should be imposed on the club because "Coach Belichick not only serves as the head coach but also has substantial control over all aspects of New England's football operations. His actions and decisions are properly attributed to the club."
The action against Belichick is the latest in a series of harsh disciplinary actions taken by Goodell, who took office last Sept. 1, succeeding Paul Tagliabue.

The most notable were the indefinite suspension of Atlanta quarterback Michael Vick after he pleaded guilty to a federal dogfighting conspiracy charge and the one-year suspension of Tennessee cornerback Adam "Pacman" Jones after numerous run-ins with police.

On Wednesday, Belichick issued a one-paragraph statement 10 minutes before his regular availability, saying he had spoken with Goodell "about a videotaping procedure during last Sunday's game and my interpretation of the rules."
"Although it remains a league matter, I want to apologize to everyone who has been affected, most of all ownership, staff and players," he said.

Are you fucking kidding me? Two first day draft picks and a half a million dollar fine? What’s next? The Pats only get to play with 10 guys on the field? Roger Goodell has turned this into a witch hunt. Clearly he believes that the Patriots have become too dominant with all their recent acquisitions and he needed to do something to restore competitive balance within the league. Therefore he has capitalized on some blue law in the NFL Rule book and punished the Pats to an unprecedented level. Frankly I think it’s sad and pathetic. Listen if the league needs to handicap the Pats just have the balls to come out and say it. But this hiding behind a technicality in the rulebook is disgusting. And frankly it’s going to backfire because I’m sure Belichick is pissed now. Before he didn’t mind letting other teams win a superbowl ever now and again. Those days are over.

It’s all Pats all the time from here on out.
It’s going to take more than losing a couple draft picks to stop this dynasty.

Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 09/14/2007 12:51PM by BigD.
Sanjeev (Admin)
Whoa! Haha...

I mean WHOA, kid...simmer down!

I'm a Pats fan all day and night, and while I cringe at losing a first round pick, it's only ONE first round pick (there's pretty much no way the Pats aren't making it to the playoffs).

The monetary fine is irrelevant. 3/4 of a million? Whatever. But while we're on the topic of money, I totally don't get your last paragraph. "Who the fuck is Goodell"? He's the Commissioner, that's who. He acts based on his interpretation of the league's rules, which everyone in the organization agrees to. I'm not sure what you're getting at regarding the monitoring of Belichick's bank account...let alone how this is communistic--last time I checked, communism wasn't about enforcing parity or suppressing excellence. The Pats got caught breaking the rules; they're now getting slapped on the wrists. Simple as that.

But again, money-schmoney...losing a first-round pick sucks, but this isn't the NBA (regarding how the C's got fucked in this year's all-important draft*). The Pats will not be affected by this in the slightest this year--obviously--and Craft is sharp...they'll adapt next year and still have a monstrous team.

Anyway, I still feel that the punishment fits the crime. The problem, however, is that there's NO FUCKING WAY that the Pats are the only team that does this! That's just absurd. How did the Pats get caught anyway? D, you're implying that there's a witch-hunt against the Pats...perhaps that's true. Or perhaps Goodell needed to nail some team for video-taping to put an end to it...might as well be New England.

Either way, though, that's wild-ass speculation. Ultimately, I say, who cares? Again, the Pats aren't affected at all this year...and next year, they'll adapt via trades and free agency. The C's did it and they were in a MUCH worse spot with their 5th overall pick.

But getting back to your witch-hunt idea, why do you think that Goodell has beef with the Pats? Are you implying that it's MORE than just trying to restore league parity...like it's personal or something? Are you so sure "Belichick is pissed now"? Did he say that in a press conference I missed? Also, I wasn't aware that he'd been "letting other teams win a superbowl every now and then". That seems like a highly improbable thing to do.

I'm not worried about this incident--it's a minor annoyance at best. Goodell's punishments aren't a big deal. If there's anything to be annoyed about, in my opinion, it's other teams' fans being smug and talking shit about New England as though their own teams don't do shit like that, don't abuse steroids, don't do whatever dirt ALL raised-poor atheletes who "make it big" suddenly and get paid millions of dollars do.

That's it.

If the Pats are truly hurt by the loss of their pick next year, then so be it. I'm a New England Patriots fan. Period. I am NOT a winning-era-only New England Patriots fan.

It's a game...the fun is NOT knowing who's gonna win, right?

*An aside: I think the C's ownership did the right thing with the massive trades to make up for getting fucked in the draft. And did ya hear about Oden? Yikes!


'Us Massholes straight up just don't give a fuck. I still pronounce "Mazinger" as "Tranzor Z".'
Jesus, that's ridiculous. Yes, most teams probably do do something like this. But the Pats employees were dumb enough to get caught. Quit whining about it and let your team take the punishment it deserves - this has NOTHING to do with the Pats specifically other than the fact that they got caught. Jesus, if anyone in the history of the league shouldn't be complaining about "conspiracies" you guys shouldn't - tuck rule and all! I'm a Browns fan going way back, and many idiots here in town still say to this day that that field goal the Broncos hit against us back in the 80's was wide left. They all claim the league just wanted the star Elway in the Superbowl instead of the star-less Browns. Whatever. At least your team managed to get over, so shut up.

In the future maybe some other teams won't be so quick to pull the same tricks. My guess is the Pats sure won't.
Ain't no conspiracy, here. Just a Commish with the balls to crack down on all this knuckleheaded BS, be it players or teams. THIS is the important stuff (in terms of the NFL)...not end-zone celebrations. Not to mention, this isn't even the first time the Pats have been called on this, just the first time someone outed them. Guess they better win it all this year.


Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 09/14/2007 12:20PM by hillsy.
I'm not upset about the money portion of the punishment. Hell the amount of money Belichick's made them after 3 SuperBowl wins and numerous post-season appearances has to be 10 times the fine they imposed upon him and the organization. Nor and I denying the fact that they cheated. They DID.

I'm just pissed other NFL teams are coming out saying... "What the fuck??" Like this:


And fujikuro... Brady's arm was not in motion when the Pats played the Raiders during the "snow bowl". He tucked it. A botched call that obviously favored the Patriots.
Hey at least the stupidity of your guy doesn't pretty much insure that the Pats are going to have a losing season...I live in Atlanta...
Too true.
mcfitch (Admin)
Go Bills!!! *ducks*

Matthewalt "I actually kinda LIKE that approach! You know: let's make a TOY. Remember those? Products designed to be played with without breaking? DO YOU REMEMBER, LOVE?!"
I'm amused.
Sanjeev (Admin)
^ Histerical!! ^

Yeah, D, the Eagles bitching about their loss is bullshit. This is sorta what I was getting at about the *real* annoying thing in my mind being smug fans of other teams. Well, I guess add to that the other teams themselves!

hillsy, I don't believe in the conspiracy theory either. Though I have no hard evidence like video tapes to back this belief up, there's no doubt in my mind that pretty much ALL other teams do shit like this. Multi-billion dollar industry? Oh, fuck yeah, people are cheating. So, for the Eagles (just in D's example above) to come out now with accusatory finger-pointing is laughable at best, hypocritical at worst.

Furthermore, I have no problem with Goodell "cracking down"--even if my team is the scapegoat--but I would also like the powers that be REALLY start a comprehensive campaign against steroid usage. That, to me, is the greatest pox in all of organized sports.

fel9: sucks kid...but isn't this just another case of scapegoating? Vick IS guilty of a pretty horrible thing, to be sure...but for the media and the league to be shitting on him so bad all the while steroid abuse is all but ignored is again hypocritical.


'Us Massholes straight up just don't give a fuck. I still pronounce "Mazinger" as "Tranzor Z".'
That's one thing I never understood...why is steroids overlooked (I'm referring to fans and media) in football, but baseball players are demonized. A guy like Shawn Merriman is just brought back in to the fold and all is forgiven, and a guy like Bonds is shunned. Granted, Bonds isn't the friendliest of guys, but that shouldn't matter. All I can think is that people look at a baseball player and think "why do THEY need steroids?", whereas football players are big and strong and the sport is violent and I think people look at it like "steroids in football is ok because these guys need to be this big and strong and play this violent sport". I can't think of another reason...


Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 09/14/2007 04:11PM by hillsy.
Sanjeev (Admin)
I dunno what to tell ya. I totally agree that the double-standard between football and baseball makes no sense, and that a BIG reason for why Bonds is singled out is because of his non-media-friendly nature.

I don't buy your theory for why steroids are less tolerated in baseball than in football...but fucked if I can come up with anything better...


'Us Massholes straight up just don't give a fuck. I still pronounce "Mazinger" as "Tranzor Z".'
Who are these patriots you speak of?
And why is everyone always complaining about their socks in Boston?

JoshB Wrote:
> Who are these patriots you speak of?

A group of revolutionaries that revolted against the King of England a whole hell'va long time ago... and don't call me Shirley.

The double standards that run between Baseball and Football deserves its own topic.

I had know idea of the hornets nest I stepped on when I started this thread (not that I am complaining at ALL). I know TBDX stretches far across the land and to hear the POV's of other people (besides New Englanders) is a breathe of fresh air.

Cheating is cheating, cake is cake, bake a pie eat a pie....

If major league sports teams aren't trying to find a competetive edge against their opponents, then they aren't doing their job in trying to win at any cost and don't deserve the money's given to them. Hell, signs are stolen all the time in baseball and if a team is dumb enough to use the same ones over and over again, then they should lose.

I know and understand why Goodell made an example of the Patriots before the entire league. Doesn't mean I have to like it cause naturally 'its your home town team' feeling and no one wants there local boys to be black listed.

I'm just saying if NE isn't 16-0 this season.. this topic ain't dying any time soon.
Did someone mention "pie"...? mmmMMMmmmmm
Los Angeles Kings 5
Anaheim Ducks 4

"There's no Bigfoot in The Awakening." -James Bickert
Sanjeev (Admin)
It's 10:36PM, Sunday night.

Jeter just hit a 3-run homer off Schilling.

Fuckin' Yankees...

*sigh*...At least the Pats are decimating the Chargers.
Sanjeev Wrote:
> It's 10:36PM, Sunday night.
> Jeter just hit a 3-run homer off Schilling.
> Fuckin' Yankees...
> *sigh*...At least the Pats are decimating the
> Chargers.

I feel your pain. Even though I live in Atlanta, and am a big Braves, I have pulled for the Sox ever since Jimmy Williams left the Braves to manage in Boston. That and I hate the Yankees with the kind of venom that I only reserve for child molesters and people who are mean to puppies...
So... how does NE reward Belichick for "tapegate"... he gets a contract extension until 2013 rumored around $7-8 Million per yr. No telling when they signed this... but the timing couldn't be more perfect.

Oh.. an I think if you look under Tom Brady's shoe... you'll find what's left of the Chargers....

At least ONE New England team knows how to win and dominate.
Sanjeev (Admin)
Agreed...though the season's still young. I mean, the Pats this year seem so dominant, it borders on the absurd.

But then again, isn't this how the Sox looked at the start of the season? Granted Manny's out...but dropping at least the last 5 of 6 against the Yankees does NOT sit well with me.

Yeah, fel9, I hate the Yankees with fiery passion. For me, though, it's not so much because of the players--it's the fans. When their team's doing well, they have the biggest fucking mouths...but when the team's tanking, they scamper off like rats leaving a sinking ship. "Yankees who?"

Of course, that's a gross over-generalization--I'm sure there's a few legit die-hard Yankees fans out there. Maybe.


'Us Massholes straight up just don't give a fuck. I still pronounce "Mazinger" as "Tranzor Z".'
In truth I don't hate the yankees because of their players (except for Damon)...as a matter of fact there are a few I'd love to have on the Braves. They have so many pitching problems that John Schuerholz has been randomly calling people in the Atlanta area asking if they can pitch...He should be asking if anyone can manage...don't get me started on Bobby Cox...

But you are so right about the fans...There is a guy at my work who talked crap all this morning about the yanks, but at the all star break he was nowhere to be found. By the way I will no longer be capitalizing the word yank, yankee, or any other derivative thereof.
BigD Wrote:

> At least ONE New England team knows how to win and
> dominate.

The Bruins rookies beat the New Jersey rookies 5-1 yesterday. I'm predicting a big year for the B's this winter. I think they'll surprise alot of people.
Still pissed?

Red Sox = World Series Champions!!!
Patriots= Unstoppable Juggernaut
Celtics= A favorite in the NBA
Bruins= A surprising 6-4 (who likely might have been 7-3 had they not played most of their last game wondering if their best player was ever gonna walk again. )

Hell, even my fantasy team recently crawled out of the basement!

9th place, here I come!

"There's no Bigfoot in The Awakening." -James Bickert
Let's just fix a little something:

Nekrodave Wrote:
> Still pissed?
> Red Sox = World Series Champions!!!
> Patriots= Unstoppable Juggernaut

Celtics= A favorite in the East

> Bruins= A surprising 6-4 (who likely might have
> been 7-3 had they not played most of their last
> game wondering if their best player was ever gonna
> walk again. )

Don't get carried away with the Celts. They are going to be a playoff team, but remember that neither KG nor Ray Allen have ever done anything of note in the playoffs. KG especially is the basketball equivalent to Alex Rodriguez. The Celts will score score score, and get scored on easily themselves. Once they make it to the playoffs, the teams that actually play defense will put them down. Plus, having no center will really hurt them in the long run. Celts fans better pray that I'm wrong, because this group has maybe 3-4 years tops to try to win it all.
Sanjeev (Admin)
Oh, 3-4 for this group of C's is being generous. Yeah, I really don't think Ainge had any choice BUT make such a radical trade. Boston fans (including myself) were getting pissed. And with the 5th overall pick in the draft? Yeah, fuck that.

I think they'll make the playoffs, but I'm not sure how far they'll go. They looked incredible the other night (Friday) against the Cavs (yes, all starters were playing)...and their defense was impressive. But you're right: this trade wasn't about rebuilding for the future...it was about staving off riots in the streets of Boston.

As for the World Series, we all knew the Sox were gonna win even if they didn't get the sweep. That sort of inevitability takes away a lot of the fun for me. The ALCS always seems to prove much more interesting (obviously, because the outcome is unknown).

And the Patriots are downright boring. Seriously. 52-7 against one of the best defenses in the NL??? Are you kidding? I hate to say it, but I kinda want my 3 hours back. Dominance is simply not as interesting as being down (but close) and scrapping and scrambling for every single yard and every single point.

If the Pats smoke the Colts, then that'll be the sign that they're literally unstoppable.
Yeah, they looked real good against my Cavs the other night. That being said, it's the preseason, and the Cavs are without three of their better players - guys who gave them the extra impetus to reach the finals. What Gibson, Pavlovic and Varejao do in the stats sheet never tells what they actually mean to the team. And, let's face it, LeBron never plays hard in the preseason. He always winds up averaging like 15 points a game. We'll see what goes on when the regular season comes in and what winds up happening once the playoffs roll around. If there's someone the Celts fans OUGHT to be cheering for - because he DOES know something about playoff success - it's James Posey. You guys got a real steal getting that guy.
Sanjeev (Admin)
Well, to be honest with ya, I don't know that much about the Cavs! Sorry! If they were missing three guys, then, yeah, that means something. I do know that Larry Hughes was pretty amazing that night. As for LeBron, he definitely looked like he was trying--in the sense that he was getting heated throughout the game (which I take as a good sign...that his heart was in it).
Ok, I grant ya, I'm just going by the hype. I know next to nothing about basketball. It's somewhere below hockey, baseball, football, footbag, billiards, darts, chess, bowling and Stratego on my list of favorite games.

"There's no Bigfoot in The Awakening." -James Bickert
Sanjeev (Admin)
Chess? Dude, chess??? C'mon! ;)
Speaking of KG, anyone catch this? Great stuff!!

Sanjeev (Admin)
THAT...was awesome! hahaha
Man...funk dat...I WANT my team to dominate. To obliterate. To humiliate. When everything is clicking perfectly. And in the NFL it's AFC and NFC (what the 'Skins are in)...NL is baseball...;)

Sanjeev (Admin)
When you explained the whole AFC/NFC versus AL/NL thing, I thought to myself, "no shit...what's he talking about?"...then I went up and re-read my own post! Hahaha...that's what a nail-biting postseason as a Sox fan'll do to ya! The funny part is that I know football vastly more than baseball or even basketball! :)

Oh, and I actually forgot to address a couple of fujikuro's points above: the C's D was never that bad. I went to a few games last year (and obviously caught many more on tv): they were purposefully losing. Seriously. If you paid attention to any of the close fourth quarters, it was pretty clear that many of the games they had in the bag...but in the last 4-5 minutes, they just stopped playing defense so that the other team would win. They tanked on purpose on the year to get that draft pick. And we all know how that turned out!

And lastly about KG, don't necessarily go comparing him to A-Rod just yet. Remember, folks said similar negative things about Randy Moss...and look how he turned out on a different team...!
Even non-basketball fans should watch that KG vid - he drops mention of Voltron, the Thundercats, and the Nature Boy / the 4 Horsemen. Can't top that!

The Celts are gonna be good this year, but I don't think they will win it all, let alone the East. I know that most critics note that there's not much beyond the big 3, but I can't comment on that. I must admit that despite being a HUGE b-ball fan (I was on ESPN, FoxSports, and my local paper's b-ball sites every day over the summer! - pretty sad), I have not had the chance to see many Celtics games over the last few years - its not like they got much airtime outside of that region!! BUt Posey is a great pickup (I'm still pissed my Heat let him walk). I just think that it will take some time for them to gel - more than just a season. A lot of talent doesn't always mean victory. Just look at the Lakers when Shaq and Kobe added Payton and Malone (albeit they were on their downsides).

I think Agent Zero sums up KG well (although he's a little off on accuracy)...

But he's dead on that Pierce (or Allen) will be the one to watch. I have always thought Pierce was an exceptional scorer, often underrated.

KG is a workhorse and warrior. I've always admired his game and work ethics. He will definitely fill up the stat sheet. But I just don't think he has that extra something. As a Heat fan, its easy to point to DWade as having "it". This guy put the whole team on his back and carried them to the championship. Look at two years prior, when he was a rookie (before Shaq joined the team), again he stood out in the playoffs. When the veterans were folding, Wade carried them through the playoffs. As a ROOKIE!! This guy is incredible - he just refusing to lose. KG puts his all into it, but sometimes you need more.

damn yo.....
"When you explained the whole AFC/NFC versus AL/NL thing, I thought to myself, "no shit...what's he talking about?"...then I went up and re-read my own post! Hahaha...that's what a nail-biting postseason as a Sox fan'll do to ya!"

Yeah, I kinda figured that....you don't expect anything to get said around here and NOT have balls busted, do you? ;)

Sanjeev (Admin)
Hehe....SportsnobDX...when will it end!?
Brady vs. Manning
From: adult swim

Y'know, I love my Bruins more than just about anything, but I gotta admit, this is pretty good.


"There's no Bigfoot in The Awakening." -James Bickert
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