Pheyden/Exellis/Crayboth: new toy line you should see
Posted by starbasejapan33
| July 31, 2007 06:40PM |
[www.onelldesign.com]
any of you guys buy a copy of microshow from microforever.com? it was a really cool fan made book of custom figures. this guy actually is producing some of his characters in toy form, he has 2 figures, 3 color versions of each, Ive always wanted to do this, its so cool he acutally is, got myself a set, you should too before they are gone for good. (not associated with myself in any way, Im just a fan) he also has produced some very interesting original comics.
Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 02/09/2008 09:51AM by MattAlt.
any of you guys buy a copy of microshow from microforever.com? it was a really cool fan made book of custom figures. this guy actually is producing some of his characters in toy form, he has 2 figures, 3 color versions of each, Ive always wanted to do this, its so cool he acutally is, got myself a set, you should too before they are gone for good. (not associated with myself in any way, Im just a fan) he also has produced some very interesting original comics.
Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 02/09/2008 09:51AM by MattAlt.
| July 31, 2007 09:24PM |
Thanks for the heads-up! Matt and Jesse were at the Summit showing us prototypes of the figures. I had no idea that they were going to be up for order so soon.
Guys, I really recommend that you try out a couple of these, you're going to get hooked. They're fun little modular figures that are designed to be played with and carried around in your pocket all day. These are real toys.
And the translucent green one is killer in person.
Guys, I really recommend that you try out a couple of these, you're going to get hooked. They're fun little modular figures that are designed to be played with and carried around in your pocket all day. These are real toys.
And the translucent green one is killer in person.
| July 31, 2007 10:01PM |
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mcfitch (Admin)
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August 01, 2007 02:07AM |
Oh hell yes. I was hanging out with those guys at the SDCC and they have some great stuff. Like starbase33 mentioned they also created backstories via original comic books that were handed out at the con. I picked up a few of the figures myself and being a Microman fan found them easy to love. There were also some prototype robot figures on display as well (look for the CollectionDX article on these guys soon).
-Mason
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Matthewalt "I actually kinda LIKE that approach! You know: let's make a TOY. Remember those? Products designed to be played with without breaking? DO YOU REMEMBER, LOVE?!"
-Mason
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Matthewalt "I actually kinda LIKE that approach! You know: let's make a TOY. Remember those? Products designed to be played with without breaking? DO YOU REMEMBER, LOVE?!"
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Sanjeev (Admin)
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August 01, 2007 03:08AM |
Seriously, how funny is this thread's timing? Yeah, we (Mason and I) spent a *lot* of time hanging out with Matt, Jesse, their awesome families and other friends. DAMN good people. Big up to them for letting Mason and I rest our weary bones and stash our loot in their booth. Matt, Onell's headman, is one driven guy. Artistic, observant, and absolutely sharp.
And this is one seriously incredible toy line! It's gonna take a LOT to break these figures. They're small, but new color variations are always in development that make these totally cool. Chrome, translucents...even glowies. Vehicles? Hope so...be sure to stay tuned to their website (or, hell, I'm sure one of us'll announce new shit on this board).
Anyway, before I get ahead of myself and get on another ramble, I'll just take a step back and say this: we saw a LOT of shit at Comicon. We saw lots of smaller independent toy dealers at the con--urban vinyls, non-character vinyls (kaiju and otherwise), whatever. We also saw LOTS of older collectors and young children leading their parents arounds. The most compelling observation I made at the con was that Onell was the only booth that was attracting BOTH adult toy collectors AND young kids wanting cool toys to play with.
Besides some kaiju offerings, most of the young kids didn't bat an eyelash at most of the vinyl dealers. And even those kaiju were well out of the price range of a "kid's toy". Watching folks come and go at Onell's booth, it was easy to see the appeal: these are toys that are meant to be played with. You can collect an army or just have a few pieces--either way, they look fantastic. And the books they offer are gorgeous. Just like classic Microman, they offer just a smattering about the characters' universe and really just leave everything open to your imagination (this was one of my favorite things about collecting Japanese toys when I was little--I had NO idea what the hell they were...but it was cool!).
Anyway, I'd better stop there...check these guys out, seriously!
--
Sanjeev
'Us Massholes straight up just don't give a fuck. I still pronounce "Mazinger" as "Tranzor Z".'
-Nekrodave
And this is one seriously incredible toy line! It's gonna take a LOT to break these figures. They're small, but new color variations are always in development that make these totally cool. Chrome, translucents...even glowies. Vehicles? Hope so...be sure to stay tuned to their website (or, hell, I'm sure one of us'll announce new shit on this board).
Anyway, before I get ahead of myself and get on another ramble, I'll just take a step back and say this: we saw a LOT of shit at Comicon. We saw lots of smaller independent toy dealers at the con--urban vinyls, non-character vinyls (kaiju and otherwise), whatever. We also saw LOTS of older collectors and young children leading their parents arounds. The most compelling observation I made at the con was that Onell was the only booth that was attracting BOTH adult toy collectors AND young kids wanting cool toys to play with.
Besides some kaiju offerings, most of the young kids didn't bat an eyelash at most of the vinyl dealers. And even those kaiju were well out of the price range of a "kid's toy". Watching folks come and go at Onell's booth, it was easy to see the appeal: these are toys that are meant to be played with. You can collect an army or just have a few pieces--either way, they look fantastic. And the books they offer are gorgeous. Just like classic Microman, they offer just a smattering about the characters' universe and really just leave everything open to your imagination (this was one of my favorite things about collecting Japanese toys when I was little--I had NO idea what the hell they were...but it was cool!).
Anyway, I'd better stop there...check these guys out, seriously!
--
Sanjeev
'Us Massholes straight up just don't give a fuck. I still pronounce "Mazinger" as "Tranzor Z".'
-Nekrodave
| August 01, 2007 05:58AM |
| August 01, 2007 08:23AM |
| August 01, 2007 09:21AM |
Jape, I don't have one in hand right now, but I believe the joints are at the ankles, knees, hips, wrists, shoulders, neck, and... (wait for it) WAIST JOINT.
And yes, the arms and legs on the figures are identical, so you can switch limb pieces between figures. I believe the head and torso connectors are compatible, too, so you can swap everything out.
And yes, the arms and legs on the figures are identical, so you can switch limb pieces between figures. I believe the head and torso connectors are compatible, too, so you can swap everything out.
| August 01, 2007 01:22PM |
| August 01, 2007 01:38PM |
I say the following only with bemusement and without any malice intended.
It's interesting that this topic came up at the same time that the Shocker Toys thread got resurrected. If the posters in this thread weren't old school toyboxdxers, it would look like an Onell Design spamfest. :)
I didn't notice an Onell Design booth at Comic Con this year(where was it?), but I saw them last year and was really impressed with all his work. The toys he was selling at the time were *way* overpriced for what they were, but if he got the price down I might buy some. I also liked the Microshow book alot. If it's the one I'm thinking of, I loved the fact that it had several kitbashed Diaclone Power Suit models and kitbashes of a few other distinctive old mecha models that I still long to own.
It's interesting that this topic came up at the same time that the Shocker Toys thread got resurrected. If the posters in this thread weren't old school toyboxdxers, it would look like an Onell Design spamfest. :)
I didn't notice an Onell Design booth at Comic Con this year(where was it?), but I saw them last year and was really impressed with all his work. The toys he was selling at the time were *way* overpriced for what they were, but if he got the price down I might buy some. I also liked the Microshow book alot. If it's the one I'm thinking of, I loved the fact that it had several kitbashed Diaclone Power Suit models and kitbashes of a few other distinctive old mecha models that I still long to own.
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Sanjeev (Admin)
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August 01, 2007 02:11PM |
Jape, LOTS of each of the figures' parts have been cast in all sorts of colors, which makes the whole swapability thing worth it. I *think* only the few color variants shown on the website are the ones that got mass-produced. I'm sure we'll be seeing more variants in the future...
And more sculpts!
Yeah, the music on the site was a bit annoying--I just noticed it last night. Fortunately, we now know the web designer and we can taunt him with bacon waffles until he removes it! ;)
Scopedog, these guys are the real deal! :)
You thought $10 a figure was too much? I've see vastly less playable gashapon easily go for that kinda dough.
--
Sanjeev
'Us Massholes straight up just don't give a fuck. I still pronounce "Mazinger" as "Tranzor Z".'
-Nekrodave
And more sculpts!
Yeah, the music on the site was a bit annoying--I just noticed it last night. Fortunately, we now know the web designer and we can taunt him with bacon waffles until he removes it! ;)
Scopedog, these guys are the real deal! :)
You thought $10 a figure was too much? I've see vastly less playable gashapon easily go for that kinda dough.
--
Sanjeev
'Us Massholes straight up just don't give a fuck. I still pronounce "Mazinger" as "Tranzor Z".'
-Nekrodave
| August 01, 2007 03:20PM |
Spamming is when someone who represents the company logs into every toy forum they can find and says, "Wow, XXXtoys are the bomb! They're so much better than YYYtoys!"
What's going on here is actual real toy fans with real opinions being excited about a toy, unlike that fake excitement generated by Shockertoys, or that fake Saturday that almost got me fired.
What's going on here is actual real toy fans with real opinions being excited about a toy, unlike that fake excitement generated by Shockertoys, or that fake Saturday that almost got me fired.
| August 01, 2007 03:50PM |
Wait a minute, eriku. I have long doubted that Sanjeev and Corey have real opinions. I do believe that most of their opinions were made by HK bootleggers. Don't get me wrong--they used the original molds, so its hard to tell them apart from real opinions, and they look fantastic. But its the principal of the thing, ya know?
Seriously, though, I kinda see Scope's quirky comment. Sounds like the guys who saw these in person drank the Koolaid whereas seeing the figs online doesn't have the same punch. I mean, swappable parts where color is the main difference does absolutely nothing for me. And having key joints (like elbows) locked in place and only one gripping hand lowers my enthusiasm more.
To each his own. :-)
Jape
Seriously, though, I kinda see Scope's quirky comment. Sounds like the guys who saw these in person drank the Koolaid whereas seeing the figs online doesn't have the same punch. I mean, swappable parts where color is the main difference does absolutely nothing for me. And having key joints (like elbows) locked in place and only one gripping hand lowers my enthusiasm more.
To each his own. :-)
Jape
| August 01, 2007 03:59PM |
| August 01, 2007 04:27PM |
japester Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Sounds like the guys who saw these in
> person drank the Koolaid whereas seeing the figs
> online doesn't have the same punch.
Well, if you're implying that Matt and Jesse lured us to Guyana with the promise of spiritual salvation and then had us commit group suicide, you're a little off base. ;p
-------------------------------------------------------
> Sounds like the guys who saw these in
> person drank the Koolaid whereas seeing the figs
> online doesn't have the same punch.
Well, if you're implying that Matt and Jesse lured us to Guyana with the promise of spiritual salvation and then had us commit group suicide, you're a little off base. ;p
| August 01, 2007 05:35PM |
japester Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Seriously, though, I kinda see Scope's quirky
> comment. Sounds like the guys who saw these in
> person drank the Koolaid whereas seeing the figs
> online doesn't have the same punch. I mean,
> swappable parts where color is the main difference
> does absolutely nothing for me. And having key
> joints (like elbows) locked in place and only one
> gripping hand lowers my enthusiasm more.
That's exactly my point. Again, I really like these toys, and I don't mean any harm or offense, but to an uninitiated observer, I would think the internet pics make them look cheap and amateurish, like Shockinis. They look like they're made of Sculpey(then again, what fujikuro does with Sculpey is amazing). Considering the limited, and somewhat unimpressive visual info available, the amount of praise being heaped upon these toys seems inordinate and the comments read like what a company mouthpiece might say if Onell Design were inclined to utilize toyboard spamming as an advertising technique.
It's really funny to me.
In any case, having seen some of the toys in person in 2006, I can appreciate the amount of thought and creativity that went into their design and execution and the quality and precision of their casting and construction. Seeing a table full of the little critters really made me want to own a handful. He wasn't selling the 2.75" ones at the time, though. They were different designs and much smaller. I don't remember how much he was charging, but it seemed excessive and I had already spent too much elsewhere at the Con. My interest in Microshow has been rekindled by this thread and I'm probably going to order it.
Edited 4 time(s). Last edit at 08/01/2007 05:56PM by Scopedog.
-------------------------------------------------------
> Seriously, though, I kinda see Scope's quirky
> comment. Sounds like the guys who saw these in
> person drank the Koolaid whereas seeing the figs
> online doesn't have the same punch. I mean,
> swappable parts where color is the main difference
> does absolutely nothing for me. And having key
> joints (like elbows) locked in place and only one
> gripping hand lowers my enthusiasm more.
That's exactly my point. Again, I really like these toys, and I don't mean any harm or offense, but to an uninitiated observer, I would think the internet pics make them look cheap and amateurish, like Shockinis. They look like they're made of Sculpey(then again, what fujikuro does with Sculpey is amazing). Considering the limited, and somewhat unimpressive visual info available, the amount of praise being heaped upon these toys seems inordinate and the comments read like what a company mouthpiece might say if Onell Design were inclined to utilize toyboard spamming as an advertising technique.
It's really funny to me.
In any case, having seen some of the toys in person in 2006, I can appreciate the amount of thought and creativity that went into their design and execution and the quality and precision of their casting and construction. Seeing a table full of the little critters really made me want to own a handful. He wasn't selling the 2.75" ones at the time, though. They were different designs and much smaller. I don't remember how much he was charging, but it seemed excessive and I had already spent too much elsewhere at the Con. My interest in Microshow has been rekindled by this thread and I'm probably going to order it.
Edited 4 time(s). Last edit at 08/01/2007 05:56PM by Scopedog.
| August 01, 2007 06:08PM |
| August 01, 2007 06:20PM |
| August 01, 2007 09:06PM |
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Sanjeev (Admin)
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August 02, 2007 03:17AM |
My opinions are as bootleg as Steve Agin is a pleasure to work with! ;)
Hey, Scopedog, I never took offense--it's all good, man! I see what you mean with my rambling about these toys!
The thing is, I have some idea of what's actually coming from these guys in the future (stuff I can't mention here)...and that's what's got me really excited. Honestly, the stuff just on their website is *extremely* limited compared to what's in the works.
Consider the figs on their site now "prototypes" of what's to come. Don't sweat it--the toys will speak for themselves!
--
Sanjeev
'Us Massholes straight up just don't give a fuck. I still pronounce "Mazinger" as "Tranzor Z".'
-Nekrodave
Hey, Scopedog, I never took offense--it's all good, man! I see what you mean with my rambling about these toys!
The thing is, I have some idea of what's actually coming from these guys in the future (stuff I can't mention here)...and that's what's got me really excited. Honestly, the stuff just on their website is *extremely* limited compared to what's in the works.
Consider the figs on their site now "prototypes" of what's to come. Don't sweat it--the toys will speak for themselves!
--
Sanjeev
'Us Massholes straight up just don't give a fuck. I still pronounce "Mazinger" as "Tranzor Z".'
-Nekrodave
| August 02, 2007 09:18AM |
Along the lines of Micronauts-esque toys with swappable parts, check your local Walgreens and Walmarts for these guys:
[mwctoys.com]
The figures mentioned in that review now come in larger sets containing one of those figures plus a vehicle for about $6 at Walgreens. All the limbs on the figures are swappable, along with many of the parts of the vehicles. Weapons and limbs can be attached in lots of crazy ways. I have a few sets (Walgreens has been doing a "Buy 3 for the price of 2" on these), and think they are well worth the price in play value.
Then I stumbled across these at Walmart:
It's the same figures with the same vehicles you find at Walgreens, but now you get 2 figures, 2 vehicles, all the normal accessories, plus a turret---for ten bucks! Woot! The set pictured is slightly different as the second vehicle has been replaced by a mobile mount for the turret. There are two more sets that have a tank plus either an aircraft or General Grievous motorcycle-thingie and a turret.
Check it with a quickness. :-)
Jape
[mwctoys.com]
The figures mentioned in that review now come in larger sets containing one of those figures plus a vehicle for about $6 at Walgreens. All the limbs on the figures are swappable, along with many of the parts of the vehicles. Weapons and limbs can be attached in lots of crazy ways. I have a few sets (Walgreens has been doing a "Buy 3 for the price of 2" on these), and think they are well worth the price in play value.
Then I stumbled across these at Walmart:
It's the same figures with the same vehicles you find at Walgreens, but now you get 2 figures, 2 vehicles, all the normal accessories, plus a turret---for ten bucks! Woot! The set pictured is slightly different as the second vehicle has been replaced by a mobile mount for the turret. There are two more sets that have a tank plus either an aircraft or General Grievous motorcycle-thingie and a turret.
Check it with a quickness. :-)
Jape
| August 02, 2007 11:27AM |
| August 02, 2007 12:00PM |
japester Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Along the lines of Micronauts-esque toys with
> swappable parts, check your local Walgreens and
> Walmarts for these guys:
> [mwctoys.com]
Holy crap, those are awesome! I've never seen them here in SoCal.
These Megabloks Plasmatech toys are similar and look pretty cool but are alot more expensive:
[www.megabloks.com]
-------------------------------------------------------
> Along the lines of Micronauts-esque toys with
> swappable parts, check your local Walgreens and
> Walmarts for these guys:
> [mwctoys.com]
Holy crap, those are awesome! I've never seen them here in SoCal.
These Megabloks Plasmatech toys are similar and look pretty cool but are alot more expensive:
[www.megabloks.com]
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Sanjeev (Admin)
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August 03, 2007 01:00PM |
The M.A.R.S. figures don't quite speak to me, but MAN, those Plasmatech's look pretty ill...they remind me a bit more of Bionicles (which I've pretty much given up on at this point). From the description of Skysweeper: "destructive plasma weapons for decapitation strikes and ruthless warfare"! HA!
--
Sanjeev
'Us Massholes straight up just don't give a fuck. I still pronounce "Mazinger" as "Tranzor Z".'
-Nekrodave
--
Sanjeev
'Us Massholes straight up just don't give a fuck. I still pronounce "Mazinger" as "Tranzor Z".'
-Nekrodave
| August 08, 2007 12:35AM |
| August 08, 2007 01:17AM |
| August 08, 2007 07:32AM |
Is this the stuff everyone was so excited about? Or is there more still in the prototype stage that they were letting you peek at?
I was holding out some hope, but if blind-boxed beans, carts for the beans, and...blocky boxes/spaceships/??? for the other figures are the big announcement then.....meh. Some of the newer designs in the last few photos are interesting, as are the robot bodies for the....beans....but I don't see how these would generate so much enthusiasm.
Jape
I was holding out some hope, but if blind-boxed beans, carts for the beans, and...blocky boxes/spaceships/??? for the other figures are the big announcement then.....meh. Some of the newer designs in the last few photos are interesting, as are the robot bodies for the....beans....but I don't see how these would generate so much enthusiasm.
Jape
| August 08, 2007 12:22PM |
it's not the beans. It's the little robotish figures.
I think some of the excitement is related to the fact that, for a number of the board members, this is a hometown boy (or at least someone they know) and the rest is reserved for the toys themselves which, I am told, have to be seen in person to be truly appreciated.
I certainly understand the latter. How many toys have I shrugged off until I was in the same room with it? Remember when you brought over your Gaiking JM?
---------------------------------
hassenpfeffer
I think some of the excitement is related to the fact that, for a number of the board members, this is a hometown boy (or at least someone they know) and the rest is reserved for the toys themselves which, I am told, have to be seen in person to be truly appreciated.
I certainly understand the latter. How many toys have I shrugged off until I was in the same room with it? Remember when you brought over your Gaiking JM?
---------------------------------
hassenpfeffer
| August 08, 2007 01:44PM |
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Sanjeev (Admin)
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August 08, 2007 03:17PM |
Yeah, the beans are their "day job", Beantown Toys. There are some interesting ones in the line (like the Robocon-themed one, the skulls, the other robot/space ones, the translucent ones, etc.)...but ultimately, they're just Boston souvenir trinkets.
The robot figs for Onell Design are great, though. If you ever get a chance to see the "Microshow" book, you'll soon see why. The two figure designs available now are nice, but are just a drop in the bucket compared to what these guys have planned. And, yes, handling them in person makes a HUGE difference. The moment you pick one up, you know you're holding a toy that you can whip against a wall with all your might without a lick o'damage. That, coupled with the Microman-esque design aesthetic, really appeals to me.
--
Sanjeev
'Us Massholes straight up just don't give a fuck. I still pronounce "Mazinger" as "Tranzor Z".'
-Nekrodave
The robot figs for Onell Design are great, though. If you ever get a chance to see the "Microshow" book, you'll soon see why. The two figure designs available now are nice, but are just a drop in the bucket compared to what these guys have planned. And, yes, handling them in person makes a HUGE difference. The moment you pick one up, you know you're holding a toy that you can whip against a wall with all your might without a lick o'damage. That, coupled with the Microman-esque design aesthetic, really appeals to me.
--
Sanjeev
'Us Massholes straight up just don't give a fuck. I still pronounce "Mazinger" as "Tranzor Z".'
-Nekrodave
| August 08, 2007 05:17PM |
Please post a video of you whipping one against the wall with all your might without a lick o'damage.
Then I would like Corey to buy one and prove it can be licked without damage (to the figure OR his tongue).
Then someone needs to perform the "Dragun Test" and run one of these over with a compact Japanese import car (Honda or Toyota) while taking photos. Video will also be acceptable.
It helps to know the beans are a separate toy line. They are kinda cute, but the thought of moving from Microman-inspired to bean-gimmicky wasn't too exciting. Heh. Guess I'll be looking forward to everyone buying new stuff as it comes out and posting pics!
Jape
Then I would like Corey to buy one and prove it can be licked without damage (to the figure OR his tongue).
Then someone needs to perform the "Dragun Test" and run one of these over with a compact Japanese import car (Honda or Toyota) while taking photos. Video will also be acceptable.
It helps to know the beans are a separate toy line. They are kinda cute, but the thought of moving from Microman-inspired to bean-gimmicky wasn't too exciting. Heh. Guess I'll be looking forward to everyone buying new stuff as it comes out and posting pics!
Jape
| August 08, 2007 05:30PM |
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Sanjeev (Admin)
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August 08, 2007 11:57PM |
japester Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Please post a video of you whipping one against
> the wall with all your might without a lick
> o'damage.
Time to put your money where your mouth is! ;)
I'll post a video of me whipping one against a wall with all my might. If it comes through without a scratch, you have to buy one of their figures online...then post a pic of you playing with it!
Hey, they're only $10...how wrong could ya go??
--
Sanjeev
'Us Massholes straight up just don't give a fuck. I still pronounce "Mazinger" as "Tranzor Z".'
-Nekrodave
-------------------------------------------------------
> Please post a video of you whipping one against
> the wall with all your might without a lick
> o'damage.
Time to put your money where your mouth is! ;)
I'll post a video of me whipping one against a wall with all my might. If it comes through without a scratch, you have to buy one of their figures online...then post a pic of you playing with it!
Hey, they're only $10...how wrong could ya go??
--
Sanjeev
'Us Massholes straight up just don't give a fuck. I still pronounce "Mazinger" as "Tranzor Z".'
-Nekrodave
| August 09, 2007 12:37AM |
"I'll post a video of me whipping one against a wall with all my might. If it comes through without a scratch, you have to buy one of their figures online...then post a pic of you playing with it!"
Wait....your talking about a toy, right? If you ain't, I don't think I want to see that...
---------------------------------
[pgaijin.blogspot.com]
Wait....your talking about a toy, right? If you ain't, I don't think I want to see that...
---------------------------------
[pgaijin.blogspot.com]
| August 09, 2007 05:58AM |
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Sanjeev (Admin)
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August 09, 2007 10:12AM |
Done!
Click here for some hot whipping out, playing, and licking action! ;)
AND...here's Josh adding to the fun by throwing his how Exellis against the wall...right before hucking his SoC Voltes for comparison!!
--
Sanjeev
'Us Massholes straight up just don't give a fuck. I still pronounce "Mazinger" as "Tranzor Z".'
-Nekrodave
Click here for some hot whipping out, playing, and licking action! ;)
AND...here's Josh adding to the fun by throwing his how Exellis against the wall...right before hucking his SoC Voltes for comparison!!
--
Sanjeev
'Us Massholes straight up just don't give a fuck. I still pronounce "Mazinger" as "Tranzor Z".'
-Nekrodave
| August 09, 2007 10:23AM |
Awesome! Since there were four throws, does that mean Jape has to buy four figures? (Actually, add three more to that count because Josh got some corner richochet action in there.)
My green Pheyden is along for the ride in my pocket today. I think he might be crossing the international date line tomorrow the same way.
My green Pheyden is along for the ride in my pocket today. I think he might be crossing the international date line tomorrow the same way.
| August 09, 2007 11:16AM |
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