[BATTLESTAR GALACTICA] The series.

Posted by Roger 
Sanjeev (Admin)
Roger Wrote:
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> Apples and oranges. Boomer was unaware of her true
> nature and was programmed to do those things. Even
> after she had done them, she was unaware that she
> did.
>
> Athena, on the other hand, betrayed her own people
> to escape with that baby and aided the anti-cylon
> resistance. That should have counted for
> something.

Right, right...but isn't it possible (even if not probable) that Athena could still wig out with some hidden programming of her own? I mean, she's still a Cylon, right? ...Hehe...maybe I'm just not a very trustful person. ;)

> There's the possibility that he could have been
> ordered to do it by Adama, who also didn't like
> the idea of genocide too much.

Oh, that would be HOT!!


--
Sanjeev

'Us Massholes straight up just don't give a fuck. I still pronounce "Mazinger" as "Tranzor Z".'
-Nekrodave

I had a deep, powerful 'sharkjump' moment when they started showing the preview: a series of relationship scenes from the next episode with some WB emo music playing over it...ACK!


it's over.


it was fun.


leMel42 Wrote:
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> > I had a deep, powerful 'sharkjump' moment when
> they started showing the preview: a series of
> relationship scenes from the next episode with
> some WB emo music playing over it...ACK!

Yeah, that was awful. They played that alterna-ballad music over the promos for the season premiere, too.

I can only hope we saw just that for a good reason, like Moore & Co. didn't want to give away anything from the more significant plots.
mcfitch (Admin)
Well that shit's not in the episodes just the promos. What's the problem? It's advertising, and advertising usually sucks. Except for the "Where's the beef?" lady. Pure genius.
-Mason

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Matthewalt "I actually kinda LIKE that approach! You know: let's make a TOY. Remember those? Products designed to be played with without breaking? DO YOU REMEMBER, LOVE?!"
A thought about the cylons: I don't remember where this came from originally, but in the old show, the explanation for why a cylon raider needed three pilots was that the toasters were really bad at individual decision making. In case two of the pilots didn't agree on something, the third would be the tie-breaker.

(This little bit of apocrypha had been rattling around in my head for a long time and I didn't know if it was my own imagination or someone else's idea, until I was out with two friends one night and they couldn't agree on a restaurant. They told me, "You're the third cylon, make the call." Yeah, we're geeks.)

Anyway, this got me thinking, if there were 12 humanoid cylon models, an even number could make decision making difficult (think of a deadlocked jury). Maybe they felt that they had to reduce the number of active models to an odd number so they could plan things more effectively.

I also wonder what became of those five models. Were they "boxed?" Were they simply exterminated? Or were they all sent on some deep cover mission and erased from the memories of the remaining seven for some unknown purpose?

Or, perhaps they were re-purposed as Hybrids. Perhaps they weren't, maybe they're masquerading as things like the Hybrid and pulling the strings behind the scenes.

I've also been watching Galactica with my mom. Yes, my mom. She read an article in the newspaper about the "Iraqtica" aspects of the third season and was really interested in seeing what it was like. She was pleasantly surprised by the mini-series, but after "33" she was hooked. Right now she's up to "The Farm," and I'm hoping I can get her up to speed by the time the third season episodes resume. It's a strange experience.
Season 3 gag reel. NSFW for language:

[video.google.com]
An okay episode. We learned nothing about the final five, although I liked the bit with Sharon's "suicide mission" and the painting in Starbuck's apartment.

I guess Original Boomer is now Dark Boomer. As we saw in the mini series, cylons and babies don't mix well.

How convenient for Baltar. If they decide to make it public that he's been captured, they have Caprica Six to help testify on his behalf, to say that she tampered with the Colonial defense network without his knowledge, or that he signed that death warrant because he had a gun pointed at his head.

So I guess we won't see Lucy Lawless again, will we?
Sanjeev (Admin)
Yup.

Re: Athena...
No matter how much you beat up a Cylon, if you kill 'em, they resurrect into a band-spankin-new body...perfect condition, right?

So...if Helo blasts Athena, does she come back as a virgin?

--
Sanjeev

'Us Massholes straight up just don't give a fuck. I still pronounce "Mazinger" as "Tranzor Z".'
-Nekrodave
I'd hope so. The only way that body isn't a virgin is if someone was giving the pre-animated body in the tank a good rogering beforehand.

However, since that new body had never been pregnant, it probably won't be resistant to the virus that was killing the cylons.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 01/22/2007 11:25AM by Roger.
mcfitch (Admin)
"So I guess we won't see Lucy Lawless again, will we?"

Well you were at the Comic Con presentation when they explained what "boxing" was and that one model will never come back so...
-Mason

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Matthewalt "I actually kinda LIKE that approach! You know: let's make a TOY. Remember those? Products designed to be played with without breaking? DO YOU REMEMBER, LOVE?!"
mcfitch Wrote:
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> Well you were at the Comic Con presentation when
> they explained what "boxing" was and that one
> model will never come back so...

Actually, I wasn't, but I think I remember you and Ken saying something about it.
Cripes. More plot spaghetti.

Well, the final five thing - especially Lawless' apology - was intriguing.

Prophet Starbuck, okay. She got the arrow. I guess everyone is special because they survived, so...

Baltar - nice. Denied once again! Just keep doing that to him, and let us watch how it affects him.

Love triangle - sigh. You can't make us care that quickly. Does anyone love anyone up there? The only believable love was Billy's adoration for Dualla, and maybe dark Boomer's infantile need for the Chief. (Interesting that they paid the same price for that.) These other relationships just seem artificial and underdeveloped.

I like how things kept moving. They still have me watching, though!
leMel42 Wrote:
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> Well, the final five thing - especially Lawless'
> apology - was intriguing.

Yeah, I've been trying to figure that out. It's like she was apologizing to someone she had wronged. Baltar, Bulldog, and Anders are the ones she tormented directly, and I guess you could consider Starbuck and Tigh indirect victims of hers through the occupation of New Caprica.

Although as with every other character over 40, it's very unlikely Tigh is a cylon, because they were born before cylons existed.

> Prophet Starbuck, okay. She got the arrow. I guess
> everyone is special because they survived, so...

Back in season 1 Leoben hinted that Starbuck had a destiny, and in season 2 Sharon echoed that. For once, we're getting a revelation with a tiny bit of foreshadowing. ;p

> Love triangle - sigh. You can't make us care that
> quickly. Does anyone love anyone up there? The
> only believable love was Billy's adoration for
> Dualla, and maybe dark Boomer's infantile need for
> the Chief. (Interesting that they paid the same
> price for that.) These other relationships just
> seem artificial and underdeveloped.

I like the character drama elements of the show but I agree that the "love square" thing was contrived, unnecessary, and ultimately went nowhere. Speaking of artificial relationships, though, Dark Boomer's love for the chief may have been just a programmed nudge.

(And I'm still wondering how the hell Athena has Boomer's memories. When and where were they retrieved for her?)

> I like how things kept moving. They still have me
> watching, though!

Yeah, me, too, but for me it's not the same as it used to be. Earlier that day I watched the Resurrection Ship episodes with my mom, and DAMN those were strong. Hopefully the show will regain that level of greatness.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 01/23/2007 05:14PM by Roger.
Roger Wrote:
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> ...and I guess you could
> consider Starbuck and Tigh indirect victims of
> hers through the occupation of New Caprica.

Add Cally to this list.

A random thought: Baltar and Caprica Six have been shacking up for a while aboard the base star. Caprica Six is now a captive on the Galactica, and presumably she will be put in the cylon holding cell. Remember that the Six in Baltar's head told him that their baby would be born in that cell?

Also, could Lee's hallucination about floating in the lake during the Resurrection Ship battle be considered "projection?"
What's interesting is that all these little moments get lost, so much so that every single episode *has* to start with a "previously on BSG..." montage.

AND...that 'previously' montage inadvertently spoilers those old moments that will turn out to be significant...
What drives me nuts is when the "previously on..." montage includes scenes that never aired. (I know this happened at least once with the "Starbuck wants to get Anders off of Caprica" briefings, help me out here, folks.)
Here's an idea: if they try Baltar, and he gets a death sentence, they may not go through with it if they think he's a cylon. Killing him would just make him reincarnate, and wouldn't be much of a punishment.
In case scifi.com's servers are overloaded, the extended scene they show has Roslyn visiting Caprica Six in her cell, trying to get information from her. Caprica says that if they give Baltar a fair trial, she'll be the star witness for them.

So what led Baltar to believe definitively that he's not a cylon?
Baltar is egomaniacal. But it's not the one dimensional egomania that is usually required of television characters (ESPECIALLY in sci fi series). It's just a facet of him. He believes deep down that he is special - that he is somehow more than the average person. He can't comprehend not being "the chosen one" to see the final five in the temple.

In other words, if he isn't "King of the Cylons" then he can't conceive of being one at all.

In a strange way, he feels the same way about being human. As he said at the beginning in the resurrection hallucination, "A cylon! I knew I was special!"

Sanjeev (Admin)
Hehe...I love how deep these psychoanalyses are...for these fictional characters! Keep up the great work, gentlemen! I look forward to seeing which theories pan out!

--
Sanjeev

'Us Massholes straight up just don't give a fuck. I still pronounce "Mazinger" as "Tranzor Z".'
-Nekrodave
Roger Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> leMel42 Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> > Well, the final five thing - especially
> Lawless'
> > apology - was intriguing.
>
> Yeah, I've been trying to figure that out. It's
> like she was apologizing to someone she had
> wronged. Baltar, Bulldog, and Anders are the ones
> she tormented directly, and I guess you could
> consider Starbuck and Tigh indirect victims of
> hers through the occupation of New Caprica.
>
> Although as with every other character over 40,
> it's very unlikely Tigh is a cylon, because they
> were born before cylons existed.

I also found this very intriguing, but I think you're taking this too literally, Rog. My record on predicting the course of the show is not very good, but I think this would support my view that "they're all Cylons." So, No. 3 was not apologizing to anyone in particular, but to the human-Cylon race that she mistakenly thought was different from her.

> > Love triangle - sigh. You can't make us care
> that
> > quickly. Does anyone love anyone up there?
> The
> > only believable love was Billy's adoration
> for
> > Dualla, and maybe dark Boomer's infantile
> need for
> > the Chief. (Interesting that they paid the
> same
> > price for that.) These other relationships
> just
> > seem artificial and underdeveloped.
>
> I like the character drama elements of the show
> but I agree that the "love square" thing was
> contrived, unnecessary, and ultimately went
> nowhere. Speaking of artificial relationships,
> though, Dark Boomer's love for the chief may have
> been just a programmed nudge.

Agreed that all of this relationship stuff happened too fast from the viewer's perspective, but perhaps the writers didn't think we'd need to see too much of the backstory after the "One Year Later" jumpt ahead. Still, I really liked the way the last episode turned out: Apollo stays with Dee, Starbuck stays with Anders. It meant that there was at least one real consequence of the "One Year Later" jump, when the show as done its best to undo almost all the other changes. Of course, one change I wish that they would undo was making Boomer "dark." ;)

> (And I'm still wondering how the hell Athena has
> Boomer's memories. When and where were they
> retrieved for her?)

As you know, I find the idea of the Cylons' ability to move memories/consciousnesses over vast distances with no apparent carrier to be quite annoying as a concept. Taking it at face value, however, "death" may not be the only way the Cylons could move this information. We know that Boomer had several periods in which she blacked out, yet engaged in sophisticated activities (setting bombs, shooting Adama). Perhaps the memory dump happened during one of these "Manchurian Candidate" periods?

Best,
--Ken-A
The Rog says:
>What drives me nuts is when the "previously on..." montage includes scenes that never aired

I actually really like this. I think it's a neat way to show just a tad more of a scene you're already familiar with.

Ken A says:
>As you know, I find the idea of the Cylons' ability to move memories/consciousnesses over vast distances with no apparent carrier to be quite annoying as a concept.

Well, there is a simple explanation: protoculture.
Ken-A Wrote:
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> I also found this very intriguing, but I think
> you're taking this too literally, Rog. My record
> on predicting the course of the show is not very
> good, but I think this would support my view that
> "they're all Cylons." So, No. 3 was not
> apologizing to anyone in particular, but to the
> human-Cylon race that she mistakenly thought was
> different from her.

I like the "they're all Cylons" theory, but it doesn't really seem to apply to the question of who the current twelve human-type models are. If it did, that would mean that the entire human race in its current state would be derived from five different people.

Recently I realized that anyone who was exposed to the sick cylons would probably be "outed" by getting sick. That excludes Helo, Tigh, Apollo, Roslyn, Adama, and some other minor characters like Racetrack and Hot Dog.

> As you know, I find the idea of the Cylons'
> ability to move memories/consciousnesses over vast
> distances with no apparent carrier to be quite
> annoying as a concept. Taking it at face value,
> however, "death" may not be the only way the
> Cylons could move this information. We know that
> Boomer had several periods in which she blacked
> out, yet engaged in sophisticated activities
> (setting bombs, shooting Adama). Perhaps the
> memory dump happened during one of these
> "Manchurian Candidate" periods?

It could have, but I'd like to see it explained on the show, as well as why it isn't done more often.
Baltar can't be a cylon, and the reason has been right in front of us all along.

He wears glasses.

Obviously the cylons wouldn't create an imperfect human model.

(I know, I'm thinking too much about this. ;p)
>Obviously the cylons wouldn't create an imperfect human model.

Uh... Dean Stockwell ain't no oil painting, Roger...

He may look older, but there hasn't been anything to indicate that his capabilities don't match up to the other models.

God don't make no trash. ;p
>He may look older, but there hasn't been anything to indicate that his capabilities don't match up to the other models.

True. Plus he has a higher capability for creepiness.
Well, he's an atheist, so that gets him a gold star.
I like how he's reincarnated as an old man. Was he EVER YOUNG?

If you can only be re-upped to your last known age, maybe Cylons 'run out' like overused rechareables.

Also, they killed Athena now, so no need to reconcile how those memories synched anymore.

I bet Dirk Benedict is one of the five.

I can't wait til they get to the flying bikes over Los Angeles' Universal backlot. Sail on, Ceylon sailor.

BSG, please don't become like LOST, and be all 'never explaining the four toes' on us.

Oh, and the 'they're all cylons' thing?

Deckard was a cylon.

I'M WATCHING YOU, MOORE.
Sanjeev (Admin)
leMel42 Wrote:
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> I bet Dirk Benedict is one of the five.

This sentence made my weekend. Thank you.

--
Sanjeev

'Us Massholes straight up just don't give a fuck. I still pronounce "Mazinger" as "Tranzor Z".'
-Nekrodave
leMel42 Wrote:
>
> BSG, please don't become like LOST, and be all
> 'never explaining the four toes' on us.

Dude, it's only been half a season since they unveiled that. There's stuff from the pilot they still haven't explained!

-Paul Segal

"Oh, the anger is never far, never far." -SteveH
I think we're all overlooking the obvious explanation that would explain every question brought up in this thread:

Roger is a Cylon.



Jape
At the beginning the Cylons were all "I'm not a Cylon! I'm not a Cylon!" Now they're proud of it!

How come Dean Stockwell doesn't act like a minister any more? Now he's the least spiritual of them all!

So what is Apollo - in love? married? suicidal? in the black market for meds? They couldn't even decide if he was fat or not.

I just don't like the way characters keep changing 180 with no apparent development. (e.g. )

I guess I'm still enjoying it, though.
Sanjeev (Admin)
Yeah, last night sorta screwed with me a little (or was that just boredom?). So, uh, we're back to status quo with the love quadrangle? Apollo/Starbuck remain...as they've always been? Booo.

Man, I'm fully aware of the concept of the "waste-time episode"...but c'mon...let's get moving here for fuck's sake.

--
Sanjeev

'Us Massholes straight up just don't give a fuck. I still pronounce "Mazinger" as "Tranzor Z".'
-Nekrodave
mcfitch (Admin)
Wait, there was seriously a new episode last night? The cable guide listed it as a repeat.
-Mason

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Matthewalt "I actually kinda LIKE that approach! You know: let's make a TOY. Remember those? Products designed to be played with without breaking? DO YOU REMEMBER, LOVE?!"
Sanjeev (Admin)
Yeah, the rotten bastards were trying to confuse us...at the regular time (11PM), they showed last week's episode...then at 12AM, they showed the new one. Not sure why they did this...

--
Sanjeev

'Us Massholes straight up just don't give a fuck. I still pronounce "Mazinger" as "Tranzor Z".'
-Nekrodave
Wait, really? There was a new episode?

Rog? Is that true?

The guide said they were repeating the last two...

They've done this so many times - changing timeslots every other week, etc.

See? Another thing I'm starting to hate about BSG.

Sanjeev (Admin)
Whoops...waitaminute! Am I wrong?

They first played "Rapture" the other night (where they finally get off the algae planet)...but maybe I missed LAST week's episode (Jan 28)...so the second ep the other night was new to me. "Taking a Break from All Your Worries" was the second one--the one where Baltar is interrogated...and the love quadrangle resolves to be unresolved. That was new to me.

Whazzat NOT new to everyone else?

--
Sanjeev

'Us Massholes straight up just don't give a fuck. I still pronounce "Mazinger" as "Tranzor Z".'
-Nekrodave
mcfitch (Admin)
Is "Taking a Break from All Your Worries" the one where Baltar tried to kill himself? If so that was the previous week's episode.
-Mason

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Matthewalt "I actually kinda LIKE that approach! You know: let's make a TOY. Remember those? Products designed to be played with without breaking? DO YOU REMEMBER, LOVE?!"
Sanjeev (Admin)
Yup...if you've seen that, you're up-to-date.

--
Sanjeev

'Us Massholes straight up just don't give a fuck. I still pronounce "Mazinger" as "Tranzor Z".'
-Nekrodave
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