Posted by Roger 
Haha! One of Anders' "word salad" lines is "There's a hole in the bucket, dear Liza, dear Liza..."
Sanjeev (Admin)
Was I the only one who finished last night's episode saying, "I want my hour back"?

...At least the C's beat the Cavs...that was vastly more entertaining.
i think that you are overly harsh. Its set up for the big 2 part finale

Who do you think will die?
Sanjeev (Admin)
Perhaps...but it really just seemed like nothing happened in that episode. Compared to other episodes, very little was established...

Oh, and the Celtics game was more entertaining...and vastly so.
the 2 hour finale BETTER kick ass...so far they've wasted two episodes with nothing new to add...
According to Ron Moore in the latest podcast commentary, Daniel has nothing to do with Starbuck, nor will Daniel be a part of the finale. He saw a lot of speculation among fans on the internet and wanted to put it to rest. Daniel may have something to do with the upcoming Caprica series (as Moore hinted in a previous podcast) but as far as BSG is concerned, Daniel only exists as a fix to explain why the writers named Boomer/Athena "Type 8," and leaving an empty slot for "Type 7."

"A perfect face. Perfect lace. Find the perfect world for the end of Kara Thrace..."
Sanjeev (Admin)
I agree with ChrisM--VERY little was added in the last two episodes. I did sorta enjoy the flashback scenes, but Mason told me said they could have easily compressed them into one...and I'm inclined to agree.

This show's got some 'splainin' to do...
mcfitch (Admin)
I also said that the last 2 episodes seemed like a commercial for the Caprica series. While they were enjoyable they did very little to move the story along.

Matthewalt "I actually kinda LIKE that approach! You know: let's make a TOY. Remember those? Products designed to be played with without breaking? DO YOU REMEMBER, LOVE?!"
Perfect ending :)
Overall, I liked the finale and was able to overlook Sam And His Magic Bathtub. I'll have to watch it again but I don't see any point to the flashbacks.

There was a local cable commercial for this during the show. I think I have something new to watch now that Galactica's over:

Roger Wrote:
> I'll have to watch it again but I don't see any point to the
> flashbacks.
In the flashbacks, Adama/Lee/Roslin/Baltar were all planning to embark on new directions in their lives (Adama and retirement/Lee hinting at leaving the service, returning to civilian life/Roslin going into politics/Baltar starting to fall for Six). All of their plans at a fresh start were put on hold after the Cylon attack--the past four seasons, essentially--and the finale is really about these characters being allowed to resume their lives again, being allowed to return not to the paths they were originally on--given that their old lives are gone--but to a life of peace, at least.

The flashbacks didn't give any revealing insights that drove the story forward, but they weren't meant to. They were more about tracing out explicitly each of the main character's arcs.

Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 03/21/2009 03:21AM by gingaio.
Oh, the one useful insight that the flashbacks did afford--the one about Boomer--instantly made her one of the most tragic figures in the show. Nicely done.
Gingaio-spot on assessment of the flashbacks. I see now that the 'finale' started one episode early..They really cast an added dimension to what happened, I think.

I really liked the Starbuck/Adam flashback. Summarized their relationship very nicely...
Oddly enough, I was thinking of Final Yamato as they collided into the big enemy baseship and began their assault....

The perspective of the big Cylon colony firing down on Galactica was similar to the scene from that Yamato movie where Deslar rams his ship into the Black Nebula Base ships..

I suppose its the Galactica/Space Battleship Yamato parallels that fueled that rumor that Ron Moore was going to be doing a live action Yamato movie a few months ago...
ChrisM Wrote:
> I see now that the 'finale' started one episode
> early..

Yeah, appropriately enough, they started the flashbacks in the episode when Adama and the crew decided to confront Cavil. Imagine if the flashbacks started with the two-hour finale--the WTF, what is this??!! complaints would abound.

That said, while I liked the idea behind the flashbacks, some of them did drag on a bit.

During the Galactica battle scene, I was thinking of Macross and the Daedalus attack.
Oh, yeah.

I liked the finale.
I just rewatched it and the happy is starting to wear off. So the whole series was just a giant deux ex machina?

God killed Liam because he wanted Caprica Six to be with Baltar? God's an asshole.

Is this science fiction?
Roger Wrote:
> Is this science fiction?

It is if you don't believe in God.

Think intelligent design.

Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 03/21/2009 09:55PM by gingaio.
Actually, I think the writers do a very good job of distinguishing between the limits of science (and thus science fiction) and metaphysics.

They never reveal or clarify the intentions of "God", merely that there is a plan. Much of metaphysics and religious sacrelige is "second guessing" God. To me, that is metaphysics (which often overlaps in the range of philosophy). Questions about the broad nature of the universe for which there is no direct measureable data.

But the physical nature of the universe is pretty clearly elaborated in the show. Evolution and the "ancestral Eve" is pretty explicitly shown. The show never explains the real definition between "human" cylons and true humans. But by one widely accepted biological species definition-if they can produce viable offspring-they are members of one species and go on to populate the Earth.

The nature of God is essentially unknowable to anyone BUT God. Its the nature of its plan. I would argue that you could interpret the loss of Liam in any number of different ways that have nothing to do with Baltar.

But frankly, its the writers who act as the "designers" in the show. Storywise, Liam could NOT be the first human-cylon hybrid because Hera was destined to be. Beyond that, you can always simply argue it was part of the "Divine Plan" which is always unfolding and unknowable.
Okay, then, even if you can tie in the presence of God's angels in this show, is it satisfying? To me, less and less the more I think about it.
I don't think the angels and the "creator" type stuff really takes that much away from the end.

As odd as it seems, I dont' think that BSG has ever really been an overtly scientific-rational universe the way that say, Star Trek has been. Its more gritty-but its not really that strongly grounded in science fiction concepts-(= the application of science to a story derived from some kind of science tech or concept)

I think that when you think about it, a LOT of the show concepts are taken at face value. The BIGGEST element on the show: the cylons-are NEVER explained. They deliberately AVOID discussions of what they are and how "tech" on the show works. How can they breed with humans? What are they? clones? Nanotech? But the fact that they took Mayr's Biological Species Concept and stuck with it? Shows they know it-but they just haven't been hitting us in the face with it.

BSG has emphasized drama and people. their choice of faith, spirtuality and other aspects of the human condition are part of good human drama, I think.

There's a LOT of deux ex machina in the show. The angels, certainly. But Racetrack's spontaneous launching of nukes into the cylon colony. Rosalyn's prophecy, the future being foretold to Starbuck by the hybrids in Razor, etc.
But that's always been an element of the BSG universe.

Spirituality has always been part of the show...it just seems that for the finale they amped it up a bit. I think they did a good job of toeing the line between the two (science and religion). I thought it was rational without being delusionally creationist.
ChrisM Wrote:
> I think they did a good job of toeing the
> line between the two (science and religion). I
> thought it was rational without being delusionally
> creationist.

Well, according to Kierkegaard, something like faith itself is intrinsically absurd, a perpetual balancing act of two paradoxical beliefs.

While the spiritual mumbo jumbo doesn't take away from the show for me, I'm not sure that it was exactly rational, as in based on reason, syllogism, anything like that.

A rational story would be like: guy kills another guy. Murderer gets tried. He goes to jail and becomes Big Ernie's bitch.

The fact that the ending of BSG relies on certain magical acts that arise from prophecy (Starbuck's musically inspired teleportation, Baltar and Six's opera house standoff, along with the other things you mentioned) puts this story in the category of fantasy/wish-fulfillment/heroic myth a la Joseph Campbell.

As you say, the show certainly started out as a more rational sci-fi type of story, by the end, it was Star Wars, with the mysterious super-being replacing the Force, and things going well because that's how things were meant to be].

The resolution didn't come about as a logical progression of action/reaction. It came about because Starbuck was hearing music in her head and the angels wanted the good guys to succeed. Which isn't delusionally creationist, but delusionally something, I'd say.

Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 03/22/2009 09:08PM by gingaio.
Slashdot discussion:

I think the finale should have been titled, "Gee, It's A Good Thing Sam Got Shot In The Head!"
I love this finale even more now.
Sanjeev (Admin)

I hear it was better than the L Word's finale...
Well...the L Word probably had more girls kissing...

I was vastly disappointed at the lack of women kissing on Battlestar Galactica.

mcfitch (Admin)
Chris I'm sure there's some fan-fic out there for you buddy :D

Matthewalt "I actually kinda LIKE that approach! You know: let's make a TOY. Remember those? Products designed to be played with without breaking? DO YOU REMEMBER, LOVE?!"
Interesting piece from the recent TV Guide interview at [www.tvguide.com]? :

And, the spiritual component of the show was just there from the beginning. It was always a part of the show. There's a certainly a section of science fiction fandom that has always had a problem with that. They resolutely didn't want supernatural, mystical or divine presence in the show whatsoever, and were sort of put off by that, or at least had trouble accepting that. But I just thought that was part and parcel of what we did. It was our take on this part of this particular universe, and to me, it was as important in the end as it was in the beginning. It would have been strange to make it all scientifically rational at the end and that it had no other purpose or meaning, because that was sort of the premise from which we began.
Compare and contrast this with the quote from the 2006 interview he did at [www.thestreet.com] :

'Galactica' was a unique opportunity, in that it gave me a chance to do things that I wanted to do in science fiction; to change the tone of it, to do something more naturalistic, more realistic, to really make it grittier and a little different than how I saw a lot of the rest of science fiction.
I guess in the last three years Moore forgot what the word "naturalistic" meant. Moore is really starting to sound more and more like George Lucas with this revisionist history stuff.
I just rewatched the finale and this might be the greatest finale ever.
mcfitch (Admin)
And you might be the worst troll ever. I mean really, nobody bit the first time.

Matthewalt "I actually kinda LIKE that approach! You know: let's make a TOY. Remember those? Products designed to be played with without breaking? DO YOU REMEMBER, LOVE?!"
This finale just keeps getting better and better. Thank You BSG.
...and fiercerobot is getting LAAAAARGER!
I had the finale inserted in my ass and now I have even better orgasms.

cae wrote:

I had the finale inserted in my ass and now I have even better orgasms

Another satisfied customer
I recently picked up a comic book, extended continuity type story called "The Final Five" about 5 humanoid cylons, lost to the other 7, of the original 12. (I think I got that right.) Seems ok. By Dynamite comics.

Does BSG have other back story fillers, books, comics, etc., like the whole "other space opera" does?

I didn't see the new series yet, buy I assume any newer stories are part of same storyline.
mcfitch (Admin)
Dynamite has been putting out a bunch of BSG comics for a few years now. Nost should be collected in trades.

Matthewalt "I actually kinda LIKE that approach! You know: let's make a TOY. Remember those? Products designed to be played with without breaking? DO YOU REMEMBER, LOVE?!"
spoilers: god did it
Dumbledore dies.

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