[BATTLESTAR GALACTICA] The series.

Posted by Roger 
Yeah, that was a shock. She was the moral support for so many characters for so long and she just gave out.

The idea that Ellen was a cylon might give Tigh a new hope that she's alive somewhere.
Maybe, but I hope she stays dead. Every new revelation (He's a cylon! She's a cylon!) just adds to the tragic soup that is Tigh poisoning his wife--d'oh!

The emotional weight of that only works if she stays a corpse, though.
Also, I love that tracking shot following Adama as he goes to confront Tigh--the crew bashing each other, huddled together, dazed and confused--and he's just passing along ignoring all of it.
Is it just me or do they seem to kill off a lot more female characters on BSG?

Ellen (assuming she's actually dead)
Cat
Cally
Dee

I just noticed it and wondered if it was a deliberate plot point or an unintentional coincidence..,
I just rewatched the episode. Let's see if I've got it all straight:

2,000 years ago, on Kobol, there are 12 tribes of humans and a 13th tribe of humanoid Cylons (who may or may not have been created by the humans.) There's some kind of schism and everybody splits town. The 12 tribes find habitable worlds and form the 12 Colonies (Caprica, Tauron, Virgon, etc.).

The 13th heads back towards Earth. Before reaching it, along the way they leave a contaminated satellite and make a brief stop on the Algae Planet, where they build the Temple of Hopes and pray to their One True God. Along the way they also ditch their resurrection technology when they discover that they can procreate on their own.

Soon after settling Earth, they create mechanical Centurions to serve as workers, but eventually they rebel, resulting in war. Five scientists (Saul, Ellen, Tory, Sam, and Galen) see the writing on the wall, or are warned via divine powers, and re-create the resurrection machinery on a ship orbiting Earth.

The war between the humanoid Cylons and Centurions goes nuclear and everyone dies. The five scientists are reborn on their ship, and embark on a journey at sublight speeds to the 12 colonies, to warn them against the dangers of creating mechanical Centurions to serve as slaves.

Too late. By the time their slowboat reaches the 12 colonies, the humans there are already at war with their own mechanical Centurions. The Centurions are already trying to become humanoid to emulate the living God they believe in, but aside from creating the Hybrids they are unsuccessful.

The scientists strike a deal with the Centurions: we'll make you humanoid like us, to emulate the living God that you worship, as long as you stop waging war against the humans. The Centurions agree, and the first Cylon-Human war ends.

The first new-generation humanoid Cylon, John (Cavil) is developed by the scientists, as well as the resurrection network. Seven more models are created, for a total of eight. John becomes jealous of Model #7, named Daniel, so he destroys all copies of it and the means to make more copies.

John eventually rebels against his creators. He tricks the five scientists into a situation where he suffocates them, and then makes them resurrect in new bodies with altered memories. One by one, over the course of decades, he inserts them into human society, thinking that life in the 12 Colonies will teach them that humans are worth exterminating.

The first one is Saul, who has a military record fabricated for him and ends up serving on a freighter with Bill Adama, 20 years after the First Cylon-Human war. 20 years after that, when the Second Cylon-Human war begins, and John finds out that all five of the brainwashed scientists have survived it, he inserts copies of himself into different factions of the survivors to make their lives even more hellish.

To go along with this, he alters the memories of the other six humanoid Cylons and the Centurions so that they can't remember or recognize the scientists, but he leaves in the knowledge that they exist, and that they shouldn't be thought about or researched.

On top of all this, there is apparently a God out there, whispering things in the ears of the Hybrids, providing divine revelations to D'Anna, Roslyn, Baltar, and Caprica Six, providing signposts for people to get to and from Earth, Kobol, and the Twelve Colonies, broadcasting All Along The Watchtower, rigging fleet-wide power failures, and whatever supernatural apparatus duplicated Starbuck and her Viper, right down to the dog tags and wedding ring.

What a mess.
So I take it you're disappointed by the revelations in this final season so far, Rog? I agree it's amazingly convoluted and loopy (figuratively and literally) but it's all sort of interesting and doesn't seem too much of a left turn or let down. How could all this not lead to a complicated explanation (be curious to see how the "Lost" creators fare).

I'm still not clear on who was warring with whom on Earth (was it Cylon Centaurians who nuked Earth, if so, how did they miss the orbiting resurrection ship with the 5 survivors?, or was did Earth's inhabitants nuke themselves?). And also the question of Starbuck, I like the theory on some boards that the last surviving Daniel (#7) was her father (he was an artist and intellectual right?), so Starbuck is essentially the original true hybrid.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 02/16/2009 06:01PM by H-man.
It is all really weird. If the 13th tribe was composed of humanoid Cylons (presumably created by humans), I really don't get, then, how this technology was "lost" over time, leading to the 12 tribes creating rudimentary toasters that would then need help from the 13th tribe survivors to make more 13th tribe-like Cylons.

Which is all very circular and illogical, unless "God" created the 13 tribes, and the 13th one was, like, the chosen race or something in search of the Promised Land.

This is assuming that Anders's part of the story is even reliable, given that he had a bullet in the brain and a really terrible haircut, which may or may not interfere with coherent storytelling.

I like the idea of Daniel being Baltar.

Starbuck does nothing for me.

Ouch, my wallet.
Harvey, I'm still enjoying the show and will watch it until the end, but as you and people on others are pointing out, it is more of a mystery show now, like Lost. I miss when it the 9/11 allegory about characters making hard moral choices, as it was in Season 1-3.
The humanoid cylon technology was lost because it was an illegal technology like cloning humans and because of the conflict with Centurions as you will see in the Caprica series. It was used to essentially clone humans, only they were using cylon technology to make an exact copy of a person's loved one for whoever was willing to pay. It was kept secret from almost everyone except for those involved in the tecnology.

The 13th tribe had to be humans and humanoid cylons or else that would make everybody on Earth cylons. If they are all cylons then maybe humans nuked the earth when they figured out that they were humanoid cylons.

The five cylons of earth could not make it back on time because there space travel technology was not as advanced as the Caprica cylons.

The satellite could have been left by humans from earth to kill cylons. These surviving Earthlings could be trying to get back to some planet that is a myth called Caprica.

I think starbuck was given another chance to live by a more advanced race in order to make sure the human race survives.

I think that Earthlings and Capricans are going to meet and:

1. Fight and destroy each other because the Capricans have allied themselves with the cylons

or

2. Unite and destroy the evil cylons and stop the vicious cycle from repeating
fiercerobot Wrote:
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> The 13th tribe had to be humans and humanoid
> cylons or else that would make everybody on Earth
> cylons.

They established that everyone on Earth was a humanoid cylon. They collected bodies from several cites and tested them.
I don't think it was Earth that they found, they want us to believe that.

Why would the centurians wipe out there own kind instead of just taking over? A revolution makes more sense to control this planet of cylons and enslave the humanoid cylons. The centurians wouldn't have a problem living in radiation. Where did these centurians go? They don't die they are robots.

If they were all humanoid cylons then why didn't all the other cylon humanoids resurrect? I think the producers are trying to hard to shock the audience and not making sense. It is still a great show, but I hope they tie everything together.

I still think humans wiped out the humanoid cylons because they consider them an abomination and recognized the threat they posed to the survival of the human race.

I believe starbuck is a Lord of Kobol, they seem to hint that there are three races involved in this whole saga humans, cylons, and lords of Kobol. The lords of Kobol are a far more advanced race then the other two races and are trying to guide them before they wipe each other out.
mcfitch (Admin)
Dude, they're fucking robots. They can melt in a nuclear holocaust.
-Mason

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Matthewalt "I actually kinda LIKE that approach! You know: let's make a TOY. Remember those? Products designed to be played with without breaking? DO YOU REMEMBER, LOVE?!"
fiercerobot, I think you need to watch the show again, a lot of your questions have answers.
McFitch

The centurians would not have been on the planet when the attack started since they are the ones attcking Earth. Earth should be full of centurians since Ellen said they were destroyed by the centurians. Just like Caprica has humanoid cylons and centurians living on the planet after the attack because the radiation does not harm them.

Anyway I am looking forward to next episodes whether good or confusing.
mcfitch (Admin)
Am I the only one that watches this science fiction themed televised program as an escape from reality? I don't want to think about stuff this granular when it comes to a relaxing pasttime. I have work for that.
-Mason

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Matthewalt "I actually kinda LIKE that approach! You know: let's make a TOY. Remember those? Products designed to be played with without breaking? DO YOU REMEMBER, LOVE?!"
I think you should enjoy it with a large frosty mug of cough syrup, as fiercerobot has obviously been doing.
> The centurians would not have been on the planet
> when the attack started since they are the ones
> attcking Earth. Earth should be full of centurians
> since Ellen said they were destroyed by the
> centurians. Just like Caprica has humanoid cylons
> and centurians living on the planet after the
> attack because the radiation does not harm them.
>
I think the underpants gnomes killed the centurians.
cae
I've never seen this show but damn, I am loving this thread. Frosty mug ...

---------------------------------
hassenpfeffer
Sanjeev (Admin)
Am I the only one who spells centurions, "C-E-N-T-U-R-I-O-N-S"?

fierce, quit sucking hillsy's farts: they're affecting your tv comprehension.
Sanjeev wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Am I the only one who spells centurions,
> "C-E-N-T-U-R-I-O-N-S"?
>
I don't know where you're from, but I learned to spell centurians the way everyone else did, by reading fiercerobot's posts.

Elitist bastard.
Sanjeev,

I thought Carey was your girfriend? Chukka lund luhnd lalu presad. Did I spell that right?

Gingaio,

Go to Canada you could get married over there. The underpants gnomes killed your manhood or was that uncle Drew. Testosterone might help.
cae
when all reason fails, assault their manhood.

---------------------------------
hassenpfeffer
Cae,

You never let me have any fun
cae
I'm a gadfly - whaddya expect?

---------------------------------
hassenpfeffer
That explains a lot. But eventually a gadfly irritates itself and commits harakiri.
cae
they make fly-size swords? Gads.

---------------------------------
hassenpfeffer
Sanjeev (Admin)
fiercerobot Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Sanjeev,
>
> I thought Carey was your girfriend? Chukka lund
> luhnd lalu presad. Did I spell that right?
>
> Gingaio,
>
> Go to Canada you could get married over there.
> The underpants gnomes killed your manhood or was
> that uncle Drew. Testosterone might help.


Hahahaaha....yes, fiercerobot: in all our years posting here and building this community, you are the FIRST real man we've ever encountered! I bow, humbly, to your virile, clearly superior racist homophobia. Tough guys like you *never* fail to impress the locals here. Excellent stuff, sir!

Gods...why do we let spastic 10-year-olds post here again?
Because we have to be fair to the spastic thirtysomethings, too.
Sanjay,

Your showing your repression sanjay.

You don't have to bow to me just nod.

Gay jokes are and will always be funny.

I remember you admitting you were a prick posting under a different name talking crap to everyone when this board first came online. You conveniently forgot that,huh? I'm just giving you and the other long time resident trolls crap back. I miss killfile days.
So do we.
Man, my favorite character just got pwned...again. Poor bastard can't catch a break. What a heartbreaking closing shot. A really good episode after last week's abysmal one.
Yeah, he's my favorite, too, and again I felt bad for him.

Starbuck's dad didn't look like Bob Dylan.

Did you recognize the piece he uses as the first stab at his second movement, the one Starbuck accuses him of ripping off? It was the stinger music they used to play on the old show when they'd cut to the Base Stars.
Had no idea about the music. That's interesting. I read somewhere that the name of the toothpaste Starbuck offered as bait was also a reference to the old show.

I tend to think Hendrix when I hear that song. Didn't Dylan even say that that was the definitive version?

What makes Tyrol such a great character to me is that because of his rank, he has just enough authority to suffer from the loss of those around him (pretty much everyone in his original deck gang has gotten whacked--Socinus, Jammer, Cally, Boomer, and all those people who died in the miniseries), but not enough authority to make any important decisions of his own. He's perpetually screwed.

And despite all of this he remains the most morally grounded character in the show. The upper echelon is Machiavellian and dictatorial (though they're also divinely right, which, I suppose is the producers' way of shoving a benevolent authoritarianism down our throats).

Anyway.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 02/28/2009 09:20PM by gingaio.
I always liked the chief, but I think he lost some of that "moral grounding" when he killed that random 8 with the wrench.

The toothpaste was called "felgercarb," which was a word they used in the old series instead of "shit."
I thought she was "magically knocked out" in the way people on TV usually are. It didn't seem as obvious a kill as when Zarek wrenched Laird.

Then again, this is Galactica. If the chief did murder her, it would be really out of character, not to mention the rebel cylons would probably want to airlock him, final five or not.
I listened to the podcast and apparently the blood on the 8's face was added in via CGI later. The producers wanted to make it clear that she was bludgeoned to death.

If Galen gets spaced, then so should Tory, for killing Cally.
Yeah, I'm surprised that the writers let Tory get away with that, though there's no reason why anyone would find out at this point. She does deserve to be tossed. It would be really weird, though, if the rebel Cylons don't do anything about what Tyrol did. Which would certainly put Adama in a bind. It'll be interesting to see what happens in the next episode.
*Spoilers for those who missed tonight's ep, spoilers spoilers, you have been warned*






Ok, here's my theory, fueled mostly by insomnia and too much caffeine mixed together.....they're gonna find that giant cylon base ship thingy that appeared in tonight's ep, Adama decides that the best way to send galactica out in style is to load it with nukes and ftl jump it right into the said base ship and make it go kaboom right after they rescue Hera. Anybody who's aboard Galactica for the mission would have already accepted that they were going to die and be ready for it. Using Baltar's speech about Kara and the events surrounding her return in the nebula as a basis, I surmise that the Galactica will then re-appear in some other place grand spanking new and everybody onboard will be reborn. Then Dirk Benedict, playing the part of "God", will fly in on the ship of lights from the original series, and lead them all to a new home to start the old cycle all over again. ok that last part was bs rambling but what do y'all think?
I think I'm sick of "Frosty The Snowman Logic."

The same logic that said, "hey, we can mix Hera's blood with Roslyn's and cure her cancer," or "hey, Cylons are machines, we can just plug a data cable into Athena's arm and have her fix our computers by osmosis." Now we have vegetable Sam plugged into the power grid, magically controlling the ship because there are buckets of cartilage being painted onto the insides.

It's as simple as putting a hat on a snowman. Voila, instant sentient frosty being.

Bleh.

The Cylon homeworld scenes made me think of Bodolza's flagship (both versions). I like the fact that they still have old Raiders flitting around and doing things.
If Benedict has angel wings and sports the A-Team as his back-up, then hell yes!
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