Alright...it's out. Start Flingin' yur~ TF sh*t...

Posted by BigD 
Let the sounding board BEGIN!!!!!

I saw the film last night and for the most was entertained. I can concur w/ most of the critics in that the film has plenty of eye candy and thin story, but else can you expect for a movie based on toys and a cartoon.

I hope people toss up their thoughts and stir up some good TranFan fodder...



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 07/03/2007 07:43AM by BigD.
I saw it, really appealed to my inner 8 year old. My main complaint would be too much emphasis on silly human side plots. I would have rather had that time go to transformer character interaction. Even if they didn't reallocate that screen time, they at least could have dumped the unnecessary hacker subplot and shaved 20 minutes off the flick. I wish I could say this was the most amazing movie ever, because I really did enjoy it more than crape like pirates and spiderman 3 that took themselves way to seriously, I really would have liked it to be more of a transformers movie, and less armageddon with giant robots. 3 out 5



Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 07/03/2007 10:46AM by Gobotfool.
Hmmm...the missus and I just saw it. She really enjoyed the humor and thought the robots were "okay" (she's not a TF fan at all).

I had a good time through the first 2/3 of the movie. The human stuff and the humor was fine (although the audience I was with would laugh at *anything*, funny or not). The big ending battle fit the modern (crappy) style of "super-fast and super-close-up" so you could rarely tell what the heck was going on. I'd like to find who started that trend and pop him in the shnozz.

After the movie, I did think back and wonder what the purpose of the whole hacker thing was. I mean, did any of that matter *at all*? I don't think it furthered the plot one bit. Odd.

The real test for this kind of movie, as far as I'm concerned, is two-fold:
1) Did any scene give me goosebumps? -- No. There were some cool moments, but none that really thrilled my inner geek. (Goosebump-inducing example: Human Torch jumping off the building in FF for the first time and "flaming on" to draw off the missle. Still has that "cool!" effect on me after multiple viewings.)
2) Did the movie make me want to buy any of the new toys? -- No. None of the characters were developed enough to make me want them. So unless I already liked the character design, the movie added nothing. (Example of show making me buy otherwise repugnant toy: Rattrap from Beast Wars. Dumbest toy ever....until I saw his character in action. Then I HAD to have it.) ;-)

I think this will be a big hit with kids and with the mouth-breather crowd. And there's a few good sections for Transfans, too. I'm thinking the sequel will be better.

B-

Jape
Pretty dull movie.
I agree with Jape about the first half being much stronger than the second part, and with the criticisms that it was very hard to figure out what was happening in parts of the final battle. Nonetheless, I rather liked it. I loved the scene where the police car Decepticon tries to intimidate our hero. Nice work, that. And every single time a moving car transformed into a robot -- or vice versa -- I got "goosebumps," to use Jape's phrase.

Oddly, the movie doesn't make we want to buy the toys. Altho' I like the movie designs for the Decepticons, I don't think they translate well into plastic. And I just don't like the busy Autobot designs very much.

7/10 for me.

Best,
--Ken-A
Much much better then I expected! This is one of those rare movies where I go see it with very low expectations, and be very pleasantly surprized! I still don't like the robot designs, but I'm not bothered by that as much as before I saw the movie. A lot of that was compensated by the pretty intense action (though I also agree that there were way too many unclear close-up shots). I particularly liked the heavy weaponary and fast, continuous, destructive and persistant attacks by the decepticons. They were brutal! Though I cringed at Megatron's "You've failed me for the last time Starscream". That sort of cheesy dialog may have worked in the old cartoons, but was totally out of place in the movie here. Anyway, top movie! I'm definately looking forwards to the sequel.

--
Jeroen Zuiderwijk
The Pre Transformer Page: [1501bc.com]
Zoids site: [members.lycos.nl]
Saw it yesterday and for the most part, I liked it. My main gripe was the hacker subplot. Believe it or not, I thought there was much focus on the girl as well. Starscream needed more lines.

Everything else was mainly awesome.

Bee-otch

--------------------------------------------------------------

I asked if I have "Time For L-Gaim" but I got "No Reply From The Wind".
My only complaint is that you guys started a new thread instead of continuing the gigantic superthread.
hypermook Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> My only complaint is that you guys started a new
> thread instead of continuing the gigantic
> superthread.


What, are you from Lugnet? :)

Best,
--Ken-A
hypermook Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> My only complaint is that you guys started a new
> thread instead of continuing the gigantic
> superthread.


Hey, they starting a whole fucking FORUM, I think an extra thread is ok :p
I saw the Transformers movie today. I did not do this of my own volition, I was peer pressured by Matt and Rob into going.

I'll admit it, though, during the first half I was really enjoying myself. I liked the whole "Bumblebee Tries To Get Sam Laid" aspect of it, some great humor in there, and Future Indiana Jones is very good and his girlfriend is incredibly hot, but then the protoforms land, and John Turturro arrives, and then the movie started getting away from me and it was just eye candy after that point.

The effects were really amazing, truly groundbreaking stuff, but they fall short when it comes to the in-close fighting between the robots. The forms are so nondescript and the camera shakes so much that you can't tell what's going on. And aside from Devastator the tank, I really don't like those robot designs.

Maybe the product placement worked. I'll buy the $40 Devastator and/or that big Bumblebee. They look like fun.

Starscream's head looks like an Eva.

A lot has been said about that Australian hacker girl's hotness being unrealistic. I've got news for you: I've been there, and all Australian girls have a strong hotness factor in their genetic profile, so points to Bay for realism.

Frenzy was annoying, they just kept him in the movie so he could menace the rest of the human cast and give them something to do.

Jazz, the wise-cracking black guy, gets killed. Way to continue stereotyping into the robot realm. All he needed to do was show Sam a hologram of the boat he was going to live on with his wife and kids back on Cybertron, when he retired in two weeks, and the whole thing would have been complete.

Whatever happened to Killer Steering Wheel and Mountain Dew Droid? Did they get dumped into the ocean or are they still at large?

The scene where he buys the car from Bernie Mac reminded me of the R2-D2 and R5-D4 shenanigans from Star Wars.

I like the Decepticon police car's "To Crush And Enslave."

There seem to be a lot of toys on the shelves like that six-wheeled APC that didn't make it into the movie. And Arcee. Left on the drawing board, I guess?

Yay Anthony Anderson. You don't usually get to see him smile on The Shield.

Matt pointed this out. Why the hell would they take the battle into the middle of a populated area? You know, where people can get hurt and/or killed? And why did they think that simply loading the Allspark on the helicopter would solve their problems with Starscream and the Decepticon helicopter around?

And why would Megatron bother trying to use the Allspark on Earth

Why would Megatron bother to use the Allspark on Earth over 100 years ago? There was hardly any technology around then that could be converted into the army he wanted.

And if the Transformers copy existing technology, what the heck was Scorponok supposed to be? Some kind of drone patterned after a scorpion they found in the desert? I know that the toy has a robot form, but in the movie he never transformed.

So far the Tomatometer is around 55%, and fans and non-fans alike on the internet seem to be split down the middle about it. I had fun, so they got my nine bucks (and probably another $40 for that big tank), but I don't think I'd see it again. It's worth it to see it on the big screen for the effects.

This is interesting, too:

[www.deadlinehollywooddaily.com]
I'm pretty much on the same page with this one as you Rog though I think I may like it a little bit more, enough to see it again some time down the line (even pick up the eventual Special Edition DVD - I'm sure it would make a fine home theater experience).

Your nitpicks are pretty much about the weakness of the script, which relied on too many lazy plot turns to justify the next big action set piece (or in the case of Megatron needing the Allspark on Earth, now or 100 years ago, to the justify the existence of the movie's story in general).
Here's the foundational nitpick that I can't seem to figure out: how did the Autobots and/or Decepticons even know about Sam's great-grandfather's discovery, much less his glasses?
Sorry, forgot to address this.

Vincent Z. Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Believe
> it or not, I thought there was much focus on the
> girl as well.

I believe it, Vincent, because the the actress was an adult.

(zing)
Roger Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Here's the foundational nitpick that I can't seem
> to figure out: how did the Autobots and/or
> Decepticons even know about Sam's
> great-grandfather's discovery, much less his
> glasses?

(movie answer to everything) EBAY!
after watching it, everyone that was in the theatre ran to the counter and demanded their money back... it just plain sucked!

---

Do Not Meddle in the Affairs of Dragons, For You are Crunchy and Taste Good with Ketchup!
Good thing though, we all got Credit to see it again since the French Version was so evil... afterwards I asked my friends if they wanted Fries and they just about beat me up!

(and for the record, they only showed 10 minutes of it before they turned the lights on and stopped the movie)

---

Do Not Meddle in the Affairs of Dragons, For You are Crunchy and Taste Good with Ketchup!



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 07/08/2007 11:43PM by Lodan.
This flick was Citizen Kane compared to Pirates 3, Spider-Man 3, and the Fantastic 4 sequel.

I didn't really have quite as many reservations about the plot points, which reservations are probably valid. Then again one might also ask of any of the Japanese monster/Ultraman movies why irradiated lizards tend to congregate in Tokyo or why the Japanese don't at least have a drop-and-roll emergency system in effect after 40 years of monster stomping.

I sort of went into the film wanting to see robots transform into cars, and that's pretty much what I got (along with a bit more).

Then again, I'm a fan of the franchise, so there went my credibility.



Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 07/09/2007 12:50AM by gingaio.
Sanjeev (Admin)
*Sigh* Well, I suppose it's time I chimed in. I saw it last night as well. Now, I actually saw it with Nekrodave at the Mendon drive-in in Massachusetts...my first drive-in experience! It was a double-feature with Live Free or Die Hard right afterwards--another braindead cheap thrill. Still it was $20 for the two of us...for two movies (that's $5 per person per movie, for the slow folks). And the drive-in aspect was a BLAST. I didn't eat prior to the show, but the food they offered was great and reasonably priced. Overall, a fantastic value...gonna have to hit that place up again!

Anyway, back to the shit-flinging. Dave and I had pretty much the same reaction to TF, but we didn't really bother getting into the specifics right afterwards. Now that I've had a night to let it sink in, the little things are seeming more annoying.

First of all, Roger, why are you nitpicking the plot? Hehe...that just seems silly to me! ...Well... Unless you wanna nitpick the very ending. SPOILER: I mean, Sam's told not to let the cube into Megatron's hands...then suddenly, at the very end, he shoves it into his chest. Bit of a gamble there, human. Luckily this "kills" Megatron (until the sequel, of course). Wait. What? What a shitty ending.

I guess my first problem with the movie is the awkward pacing, which has been mentioned before. The first half seemed to be a great blend of larger-than-life robot effects shots and great humor among the human characters and their interactions with the robots. As soon as Turturro arrived, it basically went to shit. For example, there was very little of that innocent humor after that point. It seemed like the last funny/cool/entertaining bit was when Bumblebee reformatted into the new Camaro (which is a scene I LOVED). Also, I found the effects no longer particularly novel after that point. The robots fighting in the second half seemed too out in the open--they would have been more interesting if they integrated better with their surroundings (throwing cars/people, ducking around buildings, etc.). Honestly, the early chase scene between Bumblebee and the police car decepticon was probably the most adrenaline-packed bit of the movie for me.

Now...my other problems. I've obviously mentioned the anti-climactic fight between Megs and Prime, but let's talk about the humans. Turturro sucked ass (he's a fine actor--I blame the script). His character's "humor" was terrible and was *really* out of place with the rest of the humor in the movie. Voight brought nothing to the movie. LaBeouf as Sam was fine. Umm...Tyrese? Yeah. Oh, and the hot hacker? Are you shitting me??? Between her and the bad girl love interest, I thought I was watching a Maxim magazine come to horrific life. Eye candy, indeed.

But here was the most annoying thing for me--something Roger briefly touched upon. The racism. Ok...Jazz gets ripped in half after challenging Megatron. Wonderful. But along with that, what the FUCK were the writers doing with Bernie Mac's and Anthony Anderson's (the fat black dude) characters!? Jesus fucking christ. It was like watching a minstrel show. EVERY white character--with perhaps the exception of Turturro's--was more or less a normal human being. Bernie Mac and Anthony Anderson, however, were laughable stereotypes. Mac got flipped off by his "mammy"...and Anthony told his mother or aunt or whatever to "drink her prune juice". The fuck was that all about? Is getting into a ridiculous screaming match with your family the modern-day shuckin' & jivin'? And, again, all the white people were normal. *sigh*

Oh, yeah...well, at least they left Tyrese more or less alone. ...Of course, those "army" scenes in the movie were pretty much one-to-one remakes of modern military recruitment advertisements...but that's already been mentioned.

--
Sanjeev

'Us Massholes straight up just don't give a fuck. I still pronounce "Mazinger" as "Tranzor Z".'
-Nekrodave
Sanjeev Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> But here was the most annoying thing for
> me--something Roger briefly touched upon. The
> racism. Ok...Jazz gets ripped in half after
> challenging Megatron. Wonderful. But along with
> that, what the FUCK were the writers doing with
> Bernie Mac's and Anthony Anderson's (the fat black
> dude) characters!? Jesus fucking christ. It was
> like watching a minstrel show. EVERY white
> character--with perhaps the exception of
> Turturro's--was more or less a normal human being.
> Bernie Mac and Anthony Anderson, however, were
> laughable stereotypes. Mac got flipped off by his
> "mammy"...and Anthony told his mother or aunt or
> whatever to "drink her prune juice". The fuck was
> that all about? Is getting into a ridiculous
> screaming match with your family the modern-day
> shuckin' & jivin'? And, again, all the white
> people were normal. *sigh*
>
Speaking of the "minstrel show," I take it you're not a fan of Gwen Stefani and her "Harajuku Girls"?

But man, if you thought this flick was bad, you should check out, assuming you haven't already, Guillermo del Toro's Mimic, in which...

[spoilers below]











...the giant mutated roach only eats colored kids or those with noticeable "Italian features," but not the main white one.

Jazz's death bugged me, too. Not only was it shown in an extreme long shot, but it happened so quickly. Some of the human fodder had more involved death scenes.
Even though I liked it, I knew it'd be like Indenpendance Day, Terminator, MIB but it also came off like Gremlins (Frenzy and when the Allspark made the Dewbot and the like). Pretty much like every other summer action film, except with robots as the plot device.

I'm not complaining about the designs or the CGI, as those are awesome.

Roger: Wasn't the girl supposed to be 17?

--------------------------------------------------------------

I asked if I have "Time For L-Gaim" but I got "No Reply From The Wind".



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 07/09/2007 07:41AM by Vincent Z..
I don't agree with your characterization of Mimic, gingaio, because I think the point of that movie was to show how the urban lower class (predominantly minorities and immigrants) would bear the brunt of a problem like that, and the blame for it is put squarely on upper-class white people.

I'd also recommend Godzilla/Mothra/King Ghidorah to you to address the issue regarding Japan's response to kaiju victimization.

Sanjeev, I'd agree with your characterization of Bernie Mac and Anthony Anderson (BTW, don't watch The Shield if you want to avoid stereotyping with Anderson's character there), but don't Sam's parents also fit the stereotype of Clueless White People? Even after the credits roll they take the opportunity to show how out of touch they are. When it comes to the humans, stupid has no racial boundaries in this movie, IMHO.

Oh, yeah, and let's not forget the little jabs at the President. A WHITE GUY.

;p

It reminded me a lot of Independence Day, too. I think that in order to save money, every one of these movies should just use the same canned military march music while they run those scenes.

And I actually liked the ending. Optimus describes his "suicide solution" to Sam, he puts two and two together and does it to Megatron instead. Risky, and selfless, but it worked, and it was also a validation of Optimus' assertion that the human race was worth protecting.

(And yes, I realize that we're all spending a lot of time analyzing a 2 1/2 hour toy commercial.)

Vince, even though she was playing an 11th grader, Megan Fox was born in 1986. This continues a long tradition of older people playing high school students, going back to Pee Wee's receding hairline in the Porky's Trilogy.

(Oh, yeah. Whoosh.)



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 07/09/2007 08:12AM by Roger.
Anonymous User
This is easily the BEST show I've seen this year - and last year. The CG can't get any more real than this. When I first learnt ILM was doing this movie, I was going like *YAWN* since movies like the Matrix (Manex, Esc) & LOTR trilogy (Weta) already looked so good without them. Boy, they really upped the ante this time - the robots look so real on screen, they hardly look CG at all. This was WAY better than the work they did for Star Wars: ROTS.

That aside, the action sequences are so adrenaline-charged, I was dripping in sweat. INTENSE is the word. In fact, they're so intense you'll forget that this movie does actually have a VERY light plot. But don't worry, you'll only realize this once the show is over. Still on the action sequences, this has got to be the most violent sci-fi movie I've seen this year. It really took my by surprise. I liked it, but I certainly wasn't expecting the movie to be so adult-oriented. Strangely, the dialog between the robots is rather cheesy - at times it seems the lines were taken directly off a kid's cartoon. Thank goodness the humans were at least given wittier lines.

I wished the robots were given more character and emphasis - in the end, it seems like the movie's all about the humans. I hope when a sequel does hit the big screens (I'm sure it will), the Transformers will be the central characters. And after seeing Fantastic 4, I wouldn't mind seeing another Planet Eater make an appearance in the sequel too. :)
Own Bumblebee! BID IT NOW!

[search.ebay.com]
Sanjeev (Admin)
gingaio, when you mentioned "gwen stefani harajuku girls", I had a mild stroke. When I recovered, I realized it must have been English and proceeded to google these combinations of letters. Indeed, I found several references to what appears to be a caucasian, USer pop singer singing about young, fashionably avant garde Japanese women. I found references to controversy surrounding the actual young women accompanying said pop singer, as well as many outraged comments on the web about how "Harajuku girls" existed long before Stefani "discovered" them like some sort of exotic novelty.

Hey, they made Tom Cruise the Last Samurai...it shocks me not in the slightest that Gwen Stefani is self-satisfied in her own gracious introduction of Japan's youth to the world.

Also, I have only the vaguest memories of Mimic...I should try to keep them that way.

And Roger, I get what you're saying about Sam's parents...but I didn't feel they were that clueless...or just out and out ridiculous like Mac and Anderson's characters. If clueless white people is becoming a stereotype, then I just don't see it as being remotely as charged as these black men's characters. And, yes, we're spending a lot of time analyzing it now...but I honestly went in expecting (and hoping) to see a 2-1/2 hour toy ad...what I got along with it was a minstrel show that was NOT appreciated.

--
Sanjeev

'Us Massholes straight up just don't give a fuck. I still pronounce "Mazinger" as "Tranzor Z".'
-Nekrodave
As far as Bernie Mac goes... isn't a lot of his comedy based on stereotypes like this? When his bit came on, it almost seemed to me like he had some kind of input on the jokes in that scene. And c'mon, Tuturro's character was anything but normal.

Hacker subplot was unnecessary. Getting the fight into the populated city was more for the sake of having a cool battle there instead of the desert.

I looked at Scorponok like almost an attachment to Blackout, where he's some kind of drone or something (like classic Optimus's Roller) and becomes more part of the helicopter.

My main nitpicks were:
1. The humans did most of the work. Ironhide and Ratchet took a nap for a large chunk of the final battle. Otherwise, Optimus gutted Bonecrusher, but Scorponok, frenzy, and Blackout were taken down entirely by humans. Brawl/Devastator was taken down by Bumblebee with human help. Megatron takes everything Optimus can dish out, then gets felled by human jets (though there is the possibility that Starscream fired on him) and a human.
2. Barricade completely disappears. They show him reporting in before the final battle, then he never shows up. I know the novel describes his fight with Prime, etc., but they should have just never showed him in that scene, leaving the audience to assume that his fight with Bumblebee incapacitated him.
3. The whole stomping in the garden bit. I was more annoyed than anything else, though it did allow them to show off lighting of the CGI.
Here you go:

[theangryblackwoman.wordpress.com]

Has anyone found any religiously-oriented reviews that condemn the movie? You know, the ones that point out Satanic connections and the like? I love those. "Optimus Prime has FLAMES painted on him, could they possibly make it any clearer that he is The Horned One?"
Sanjeev (Admin)
Thanks so much for posting that, Roger...really hit the nail on the head. Haha..and the ironic thing is that I'd totally forgotten about the Indian phone support guy!

--
Sanjeev

'Us Massholes straight up just don't give a fuck. I still pronounce "Mazinger" as "Tranzor Z".'
-Nekrodave
Honestly, although I did make the comment about Jazz's racial aspects and the irony of what happens to his character, I really can't agree with what a commentor from that blog (Nik Woehlke) says here:

"And still there’s Jazz. I’m bitter about that. Being black is really the only reason they killed him. The more I think about it, narratively it really, really should have been Ratchet to buy it, and the more I think about it, the more it feels like the writers went out of their way to kill the black Autobot."

IMHO, reading that much into it is silly, and the rest of the comments about the human characters are silly. I'm sorry if you don't think so, Sanjeev, but expecting some sort of straightforward, racially balanced, completely non-prejudicial, and ultimately "realistic" depiction of all characters in a work of fiction, much less a movie about transforming alien robots is a bit much.

I know racist portrayals happen movies sometimes, but I didn't see that here. I think each character was portrayed with their own strengths and weaknesses and I really don't see how those attributes (positive or negative) were somehow representative of their race and/or nationality (except that hot Australian girl). If it's because I'm a white guy, then I guess I fall into the stereotype of the White Guy Unable To See Racism.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 07/09/2007 05:54PM by Roger.
Roger Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> I don't agree with your characterization of Mimic,
> gingaio, because I think the point of that movie
> was to show how the urban lower class
> (predominantly minorities and immigrants) would
> bear the brunt of a problem like that, and the
> blame for it is put squarely on upper-class white
> people.
>
[*note: if you're being ironic above, Roger, you're a weenie.]

My initial reaction from when I watched it wasn't the sociopolitical commentary. I mean, I don't think the line is that clear cut between a film criticizing stereotypes and subtly reinforcing them, especially when it's a genre film working within the confines of a mystery/horror structure, and it's a genre film funded by a major Hollywood studio that adheres to specific social norms in casting. (And I'm a huge fan of Guillermo del Toro, so it pains me to write this).

If the film is about the brunt absorbed by the poorer urban class, then why not feature characters from that class as the main characters, even if they're going to just end up as roach fodder, instead of Mira Sorvino and whoever her husband was? The action/horror genre structure is pretty much intact, so even if the film reveals a critique of the upper classes, it doesn't change the fact that members from that class are the ones who save the day at the end, and the lower class remain roach fodder. In other words, as critique, it doesn't actually do much in terms of breaking or "critiquing" the structure of a movie in which the black guy gets killed first.

Then again, I wasn't watching the flick for racial equality, so it wasn't something that bugged me (haha!) too much.

> I'd also recommend Godzilla/Mothra/King Ghidorah
> to you to address the issue regarding Japan's
> response to kaiju victimization.
>
I don't know. I have a hard enough time sitting down for a Gamorrah (sp?) flick, and I love turtles.

>IMHO, reading that much into it [the Transformers] is silly, and the rest of the
>comments about the human characters are silly. I'm sorry if you don't think so,
>Sanjeev, but expecting some sort of straightforward, racially balanced,
>completely non->prejudicial, and ultimately "realistic" depiction of all
>characters in a movie about transforming alien robots is a bit much.

Totally agree. Being really bothered by the uneven portrayals of race while watching the Transformers is about as silly as being hindered by, ahem, plot points.



Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 07/09/2007 06:06PM by gingaio.
Sanjeev (Admin)
Actually, that's interesting. I didn't read any of the comments, but I, too, tend to disagree with that comment. I'm not really a conspiracy theorist (or am I!? ;) ).

In fact, I don't even think it occurred to the writers that killing Jazz in such a stupidly hackneyed way was racist at all. That's how much of racism really works--it's the underlying shit that skews your everyday, unconscious thinking. Like the original writer said, racism isn't JUST "the n-word". The insensitivity the writers have shown toward film elements so clearly racially-charged is a manifestation of their racism.

I mean, it's these same writers who came up with Mac and Anderson's characters, right? Those characters weren't just "goofy", "weird", or "silly"...these are established negative racial stereotypes. I have no doubt that the writers were just not thinking when it came to this stuff...and that lack of thinking is their racism. They're not some Illuminati in some dark, smoke-filled board room...just dumbasses! Not bad people...just dumbasses...like the rest of us and our patterns around racism and internalized racism! (How did I know we would end up on this subject? ;) )

Honestly, the human characters annoyed me a lot more than Jazz or his demise. That's just me, though. And, Roger, it's not a matter of "reading into" anything. Sure, I'm taking my time to type out these long posts..but this is all after the fact of seeing something clearly fucked up right in my face. And, clearly, I'm not alone in my perturbment.

So, if you're a white guy unable to see racism, hey, shit happens! Sure...could be your racism, but no need to get bent outta shape about it. We all have it. We all gotta work on it.

[Hell, on the elevator on the way up to my office this morning, there was a older white woman holding her purse--objectively speaking, she seemed perturbed not in the slightest having to share the ride with me...yet I couldn't get my mind off the fact that with any false move, I could be "menacing" her! Haha...like I said, we ALL gotta work on it.]

--
Sanjeev

'Us Massholes straight up just don't give a fuck. I still pronounce "Mazinger" as "Tranzor Z".'
-Nekrodave
Sanjeev Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> In fact, I don't even think it occurred to the
> writers that killing Jazz in such a stupidly
> hackneyed way was racist at all. That's how much
> of racism really works--it's the underlying shit
> that skews your everyday, unconscious thinking.

Or it's the flip side of the underlying shit that makes some people tend to see racism in almost everything, but I realize this conversation has been done to death in another thread.

It is silly, isn't it? To say that an alien robot from another planet is "black" because he uses hip-hop vernacular? Does that automatically make the other robots members of other races? Or are they all "black," and just one of them uses slang? I blame it all on white writers whose sense of paternalism made them deliberately assign race to a certain character because that character's original voice actor was black. ;p

> I mean, it's these same writers who came up with
> Mac and Anderson's characters, right? Those
> characters weren't just "goofy", "weird", or
> "silly"...these are established negative racial
> stereotypes.

I want to do a little thought exercise here. Let's pretend that Anthony Anderson and Rachael Taylor have switched roles. Anderson uses the memory chip to steal the sound clip from the government computers, brings it to Taylor's house (where she and her friend are "hacking the net" and playing Dance Dance Revolution), they get arrested, they get interrogated, etc. Let's stop at that point before the two of them pick up guns, kill Frenzy, and help send that message to the Air Force. Let's just focus on the negative things they do before they redeem themselves.

Now, can you find examples of racism and/or sexism? Is it sexist that Taylor's character cries and cracks under pressure? Because, you know, it's a sexist stereotype that women are weak. Is it racist that Anderson's character commits a crime? Because, you know, it's a racist stereotype that black people steal things.

See where I'm going with this? I think if you take any character's negative actions and attributes and try to connect them to a racist attitude on the part of the writers, directors, etc., you can find this stuff anywhere. I think that's what I see you and others doing here.

> So, if you're a white guy unable to see racism,
> hey, shit happens! Sure...could be your racism,
> but no need to get bent outta shape about it. We
> all have it. We all gotta work on it.

I cannot accept your lackadaisical attitude about this. There's only one way to settle this...

RACE WAR!!! AUTOBOTS VERSUS DECEPTICONS!!!

;p

Despite all of this silliness, I think there are two different classes of nitpicks in this thread:

- The connection between a work of fiction and reality: depiction of real-world events and characters, like aspects of characters, etc. There's an expectation (or lack thereof) for the film to depict things as they actually are. Examples are nitpicks about the portrayal of the military and racial stereotyping.

- Internal consistency. There's an expectation for the events to follow a logical pattern. It doesn't matter if it's a live action drama about surgeons in NYC or a CGI movie about cartoonish microscopic life under the Martian sands, every story has to follow a set structure, established rules, and maintain consistency in order to work properly. An example is the connundrum of great-grampa's glasses.
Commercials don't always function according to narrative coherence.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 07/09/2007 07:12PM by gingaio.
Roger Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------

> It is silly, isn't it? To say that an alien robot
> from another planet is "black" because he uses
> hip-hop vernacular?

And he breakdances. He breakdances while he transforms. You forgot to mention that, Rog.

^_^

Its funny, but the only "race" issue that immediately caught my attention was how both prominent black characters yelled at their moms. Bernie Mac's line was funny (if shocking and random), but then using the same shtick with Anderson seemed bizarre. It's no so much racist as....unimaginative.

As for Jazz's death, I'm not sure what part of being ripped in half atop a building is "hackneyed". ;-) I saw the movie again and tried to watch the events leading up to his death. I recall reading (on a toy box maybe?) that this incarnation of Jazz relies on speed due to his small size. And when Megatron surprises the Autobots, Jazz gets buffeted by the blast more than the others who are also trying to scramble away. In that framework of the movie, it makes sense that he is easier for Megs to grab, since he is still stunned. So it's not like he did anything stupid to get caught. And he was brave to the end by still trying to shoot Megs in the leg while hanging there.

I would have been real disappointed if he went all gangsta or something and simply walked up to Megs while shooting nonstop. Or if he'd been posturing and talking trash to somebody and then got blindsided for comedic effect. That kind of stuff would have bothered me.

Jape
japester Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> And he breakdances. He breakdances while he
> transforms. You forgot to mention that, Rog.

Ah, yes, I forgot about that. Leftover programming from the Golden Age of Cybertron, when disputes were settled through breakdancing contests. ;p
YOU GOT SERVERED!
So I was gonna write a review with my own thoughts about the flick, but then Atom goes an sums up pretty much my feelings on the flick:

[collectiondx.com]
(Nice Job Atom)

With a few things I'd change (i.e. adding Armageddon to the list of crap-o-lah of Bay's movies) Atom's pretty spot on w/ his take on it. I never got tired of the 'bots transforming, enjoyed Sam's character very much, and knew overall that I was watching an extended/cut-up/mix-match of story lines and episodes of Transformer (Cartoon/Comic/and whatever) mediums. And it's good.

One thing I'm unsure of and don't understand is why this thread turned a robot movie review into why various members of the movie were type-casted. I mean you go to a movie like this to seeing big friggin' robots knock each other around... and they did... in a BIG way. Granted the last 20min of the flick are enough to turn a normal healthy person into having Epilepsy and Seizure Disorders 'cause even my brain hurt from all the action going on.

Please, any time the movie got too serious I just told myself that if I was in the middle of a giant robot invasion.... what would I do? Prolly not all the different than what the people on screen did. Minus having the ridiculously hott (2 t') brunette (Fox) and blonde computer hacker-chick show off their tits, ass, and legs every moment they had... but I'm getting off point here.

Ya paid $10 bucks to see a movie about robots. Did it deliver? Hell yes.

It's prolly the best summer movie out this year (and yes I know that's not saying much). It's far better Spider-man 3 and Pirates 3.
Man, it's going to look bad when Ginrai and I review give the movie a bad review right after Atom is orgasming over it. Haha
Roger Wrote:
>
> Why would Megatron bother to use the Allspark on
> Earth over 100 years ago? There was hardly any
> technology around then that could be converted
> into the army he wanted.
>
> And if the Transformers copy existing technology,
> what the heck was Scorponok supposed to be? Some
> kind of drone patterned after a scorpion they
> found in the desert? I know that the toy has a
> robot form, but in the movie he never
> transformed.

Here's my take on this whole idea: We consider the Transformers to be "mechanical life forms", because they're mechanical and they have the same characteristics we associate with ourselves and other higher forms of life. Likewise, the Transformers may consider us to be highly advanced organic machines. We don't resemble them as closely as our tools and constructs do, but essentially all a Transformer seems to need in its alternate mode is a system of propulsion and a place to hold its weapons. As in Beast Wars, perhaps they could scan any functioning system - a bug, a monkey, a dinosaur skeleton - and as long as the parts fit together in a useful way, they can replicate it and use it.

Even though they come from a world of life forms composed of inorganic compounds (whose functions, perhaps, depend more on the inertness of their parts than the multitude of chemical reactions occurring within an organic creature), I don't think they'd necessarily have a reason to rule out organic life as incompatible with their own structures, just as humans implant metal pins, artificial joints and pacemakers into themselves when it's necessary or beneficial. For instance, the solid organic skin of an animal altmode could protect a TF's robot parts from the corrosive effects of moisture, atmospheric gases, or any feature of the environment that animal inhabits.

-Paul Segal

"Oh, the anger is never far, never far." -SteveH
Haha:


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