Transformers movie gigantic superthread

Posted by asterphage 
Sanjeev Wrote:
"... but if it weren't for ...I wouldn't know shit and I'd be fucking miserable."



I feel the same way about Sesame Street and the Muppet Show.
the struggles of African Americans in the U.S. don't end with the amount of money you make, so I don't really think we "break free" from anything. You gotta keep learning about yourself and your place in this life. Slavery wasn't shackles and a whip--it was a never-ending mindfuck that was designed to turn ordinary men and women into work horses and keep them dependent on the white man, self-hating, ignorant, submissive, and hopeless--and the methods worked well to keep the people down so that the African slaves raised their own children with a "slave mind" (this saves the slave master a lot of trouble). It was really a science. It was designed to hit all aspects of life and culture--especially language.

This definitely comes into play when you see brothers with a self-destructive attitude, glorifying the very stereotypes that white folks stuck on them, etc. "break the mind, keep the body". Sure, everyone has come a long way, but some of us get left behind, lost, and fall through the cracks and are forgotten about—black and white.

I can only speak for myself, but when people are like "what do you want?", I just want ppl to learn about what happened. what really happened. When I was in school, they talked about the middle passage and slavery like it was just some thing that kind of happened for a little while—like a plague, then it’s “ok, let's turn the page”. Back in those times, white folks didn't like admitting fault, losing face, being made out to be the bad guy, or inferior to anyone non-white (especially blacks) on any level. And if you did best them at something, they had to figure out “how”. I remember in college I saw something on a study about black men and why we’re faster, and can jump higher, yaddah yaddah. When you’re good at something it must be because it just comes to you naturally—not because you work your ass off through blood, sweat, and sacrifice. And see, it works both ways too. White folks had better schools, more opportunities, people liked them, their heroes, great achievements and what not are always in your face, in your books, on your money, but their success and potential was genetic.

It's not like I expect or even want white folks of today to take responsibility for what their ancestors might have done--far from it. I just want ppl to acknowledge what really went down, open their eyes and see that we're all in this together. This is our shared history, and it's affected us in ways we might not realize--and won't realize until we face it on our own and together. Michael Bay is kind of fucked up. The fact that he just wants to act like this is "nothing" is fucked up. It just illustrates my point about how our past has shaped our thinking today regardless of your color. We’ll just keep going in mental circles until we look at the map that is our history and see where we’ve been together. It’s a process. Not some law that’s passed or done away with, not a page in history, not a really touching movie that opens our eyes, but a life-long process.

I think many of us white/black/whatever are fucked up in the head. When we really talk about what happened, educate ourselves, and learn to understand our past, we can "break free". Like Sanjeev said "together". That’s the only way.

recommended reading: "The making of a slave", "Black like me". I can't tell you how much you'll learn just from reading a few pages from these.

I recently saw this movie: "nothing but a man" it was great.



Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 06/30/2009 01:36PM by kiriko.
I still find it puzzling why you guys who had problems with the alleged racist aspects of the first movie saw the second movie.

I mean, come on. Why did you reward Michael Bay with your ten dollars a second time? Why are you buying the toys? If you really give a shit about this, take a cue from the people who had a problem with Don Imus' comments.

Start a Transformers boycott.
Start a Michael Bay boycott. I like transformers...Michael Bay..eh not so much.
> All these behaviors are irrational and routed in
> the global effects of racism, but I think the only
> way to think clearly about it is to separate
> racism (the oppressor stuff) and internalized
> racism (the victim stuff). But that's another
> discussion...

I've discussed the movie (which I have NOT seen, but as you said having seen the first movie was enough to know where Bay is coming from) with people that I consider intelligent and highly considerate of other people's viewpoints and feelings and still have gotten back a whole lot of "Is that really racist?" They make various points regarding how people are portrayed, about how Hollywood makes caricatures of pretty much every person they portray in movies, and so on and so forth. I'm still slightly dumbfounded by how this does not strike them as immediately a racist characterization. Yet, they are just as dumbfounded by my assertions. At some point, there is something of a "cut off" in people's minds about what actually constitutes racism. Is it about oppression (generally I consider actual oppression to have to come from someone in a position to actually oppress someone else - a position of power) or something else? The characterizations are clearly racist, but are merely patterning something that is a larger part of our society as a whole. T

he insidious part of all of this is the pervasive nature of how easy it is to accept things as being OK when they really are not. My daughter, for example, is of mixed descent. Her father was black, her mother - my wife - is white. Now, she is somewhat light-skinned, but there is no doubt of her ancestry. However, she's about as "white" as you can be from a behavioral standpoint. It's the culture in which she was raised. When she went to see the movie, she came back telling me I was right about these two characters. That she was surprised that they were made that way and that, actually, she was surprised in general by the amount of cursing and overtly sexual imagery and so on in the movie (and, by the way, the cursing and overt sexuality are a form of oppression as well). However, she still enjoyed the movie and went back to see it again last night. I just had to shake my head and wonder why it is so easy to just overlook these things and see them as irrelevant. I think there's a strong element of that generation that is highly disinterested in issues of equality and so on. Just look at the usage of language with words like "gay" being used to describe something negative.

No real point here, just speaking conversationally.

More serious than thou
>
> It's not like I expect or even want white folks of
> today to take responsibility for what their
> ancestors might have done--far from it. I just
> want ppl to acknowledge what really went down,
> open their eyes and see that we're all in this
> together. This is our shared history, and it's
> affected us in ways we might not realize--and
> won't realize until we face it on our own and
> together. Michael Bay is kind of fucked up. The
> fact that he just wants to act like this is
> "nothing" is fucked up. It just illustrates my
> point about how our past has shaped our thinking
> today regardless of your color. We’ll just keep
> going in mental circles until we look at the map
> that is our history and see where we’ve been
> together. It’s a process. Not some law that’s
> passed or done away with, not a page in history,
> not a really touching movie that opens our eyes,
> but a life-long process.
>

This is why it used to drive me crazy in the PC 90's when people, especially in the media, would gloss over these aspects of our history that we all did share. There WAS slavery, and black people were NOT equal to whites in our society. No matter the attempt to portray history differently so as to appease some need to be PC about things. This was a major trend in the 90's. A good example, though hardly a historical document, was that Kevin Costner Robin Hood movie. A black man is portrayed in it, as being well-liked and accepted within the environment of the movie, clearly as an attempt to be more politically correct. There were plenty of other instances of this, but this is the most prominenet example I can think of.

It drives me crazy because if you don't own up to what happened, if you don't acknowledge it and accept it and try to learn from it, you will get an environment in our society where the ravages of the past are forgotten and old patterns will re-emerge. My post above already shows it's happening. I see far FAR more racism today than I did 20 years ago in my experiences. People are quite conveniently forgetting their history, or they are too young to have been much of a part of it and so don't even realize what's happened/happening. There's also a deliberate anti-PC backlash that's occurring as well. That's partially the fault of those who thought that PC was the right way to go instead of having open and frank discussions.

I don't know, maybe we're all just fucked and doomed to repeat all this crap. I'd like to think we're not, but the all-pervading media influence is very very hard to escape, and as Sanjeev notes above, positive messages rarely get through...

More serious than thou
Roger Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> I still find it puzzling why you guys who had
> problems with the alleged racist aspects of the
> first movie saw the second movie.
>
> I mean, come on. Why did you reward Michael Bay
> with your ten dollars a second time? Why are you
> buying the toys? If you really give a shit about
> this, take a cue from the people who had a problem
> with Don Imus' comments.
>
> Start a Transformers boycott.

That's true. The toys are as tied in with this as anything else. Hasbro's giving their tacit approval of the whole movie experience.

More serious than thou
You betcha. Remember those opening credits. Hasbro was listed as a producer of the film. And it doesn't matter how many negative movie reviews this gets, the money the film has made drowns those messages out. There will be a third film, and Hasbro will want nobody but Bey directing it, so count on more Sambotrons.
awesome. well, count me out.
The only question at this point is if they go far enough to give them brown or black paint jobs.

More serious than thou
fujikuro Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> The only question at this point is if they go far
> enough to give them brown or black paint jobs.


That and some afros. Muthafuckas be needen' some fros, yo. Werd.
Sanjeev Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> NOW...after all that...you wanna tell me that
> Skids and Mudflap are NOT racist "coon" depictions
> of what Bay et al consider black behavior? You
> really still think they're there to mock white
> kids from the suburbs trying to be gangsters???

I don't recall hearing too much racial controversy about the first one, but if what you say is true, then you are probably right about the second one. I think its amusing that we're both talking about ROTF without having seen it. :)


> This IS a kid's movie, right? Would you take your
> kids to these movies? Would you worry that they
> would get the wrong impression of black people
> from it?

Like I said from the beginning, I've never seen either movie, and I never will. If ROTF is indeed racist, then that's just another good reason not to patronize it.


> > I think I see what you mean here. The only
> > distinction I see between this and Stepin
> > Fethit-type stuff is that I don't think trendy
> > kids ever dressed like minstrels, wore
> blackface,
> > or acted like buffoons around town in the early
> > 1900s. Nowadays the cultural misappropriators
> > actually dress up and perform the minstrel act.
>
> > Raised-poor thugs in an inner city somewhere
> are
> > not responsible for this. The purveyors of the
> > minstrel act are responsible. Russell Simmons,
> > Sean Combs, Dr. Dre- these guys are incredibly
> > intelligent and talented but they are just as
> > guilty of enabling and perpetuating the
> > destructive trend as Lil Wayne, Lil John, and
> so
> > on.
>
> Agreed. But again, this is that tricky grey area,
> right? Do we fault mid-level players like Russell
> Simmons, Diddy, and Dre?

Yes. I fault anyone who is in a position to raise awareness or stop enabling and does the opposite. It would very well cost them their careers and fortunes, and I respect that, but until more people in positions of considerable influence make this sort of sacrifice, I do not foresee a great deal of change.


> > Picking their pants up is one step towards
> moving
> > up in life.
>
> You need to cool it with this stuff. Seriously. I
> wear saggy jeans and big-ass tims. I find these
> statements extremely disrespectful. You want to
> see an end to gang violence and drug addiction in
> inner cities? Well, cool. Me too.
>
> Baggy jeans don't equal gang banger. How do you
> dress? How does your family dress, or the
> community you grew up in? You want me to start
> making generalizations about you based on your
> appearance? Probably not. I don't want to anyway
> because that's some ignorant shit.

I realize this is the most sensitive element of our conversation. What follows is my opinion and something I strongly believe. This is not intended to inflame or insult and if you wish to provide feedback I am more than happy to re-examine it:

I don't think you can disentangle the implications of thug lyfe from the thug fashion that it inspires. I keep using the term wannabe because I'm referring to a specific type of person- one who is decidedly not a criminal, and yet emulates the style and demeanor, often to exaggerated proportions, such as Ali G. Wearing a crucifix means something. Wearing a menorah means something. Wearing a swastika means something. Wearing what gangsters wear means something. I think emulating, glorifying, and romanticizing thug lyfe empowers and legitimizes it.

edit: I said menorah but I meant yarmulke. Oops.

I like Guess, Armani Exchange, Express, and the like. You might see me in one outfit and think I look flamboyant or gay. You might see me in another and think I look professional or uptight. I accept that.


> > Who's to say that alien robots wouldn't speak
> and
> > act like Skids and Mudflap?
>
> C'mon dude. Really?
>
> I'm just going to go ahead and assume you're
> kidding and/or playing devil's advocate...because
> if not, I simply refuse to dignify this with a
> response. That's just disappointing, Scopedog.

It was tongue-in-cheek.


> > Michael Bay is not the problem.
>
> He sure ain't part of the solution. More to the
> point, take a step back and look at the depth of
> this conversation. I think it's great...but at the
> same time, we shouldn't be having this discussion
> over a movie about giant transforming robots.

I'm sure this conversation is more interesting than the movie. :)


> > Thanks. I do realize that I have alot to
> learn.
>
> We all do. I've had a wide range of experiences
> growing up in Boston, but if it weren't for my
> actually going out and talking to all different
> types of people on subjects like these (and doing
> MUCH more *listening* than talking), I wouldn't
> know shit and I'd be fucking miserable.

I was filled with angst at one time, too, until I realized that we're all more alike in the ways that count then we tend to notice.



Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 07/09/2009 10:00AM by Scopedog.
Sanjeev (Admin)
Thanks for sharing that perspective, kiriko. I agree: a VERY important thing is for people to understand what really has happened in human history and, in a sense, own up to the legacy of the oppression that exists today. This is not to say that white people should be made to feel bad or guilty for slavery, for example...I don't believe in "bad people". Instead, I think ALL people need to be real about this stuff and work together to correct the problems that exist today. This means that a lot of white people will have to *face* that guilt that I'm sure they try to ignore and take a hard look at how racism has harmed their own lives, built walls between them and people of color, and ultimately, prevented them from using their power to create a better tomorrow. Just because a black man's in the White House doesn't mean racism is dead, or that classism isn't still the real problem in the world.

At the same time, people of color need to own up their own internalized racism. Just as Scopedog's trying to point out, we need to let go of the bitterness or the irresponsible behavior or even the same "assimilated" attitude that racism is somehow dead...how ever it sits for us.

[Hehe...by the way, you made me crack up when you mentioned those Kinsey-esque studies that said that blacks are naturally better at sports and whatnot! It's like, "see? see? we're not racist! we're saying blacks are better at stuff & stuff!!" Hahaha...sure, and I guess that has NOTHING to do with how blacks have been socialized in the US since slavery...let alone, the hard work young people in the inner city put in because there are so few other outlets!]

Roger, I agree with boycotting TF. In fact, I'm not sure if you've noticed, but the majority of people in this conversation have NOT seen the movie! Boycotting's only one step, though. Raising dialog about these issues is vastly more critical to make social change really happen, though. I see internet dialogs such as these as a new form of protest. I'm really not interested in putting Hasbro out of business, putting Bay out on the street, or otherwise destroying the TF franchise. I'm interested in eliminating racism and class society.

fujikuro, thanks for your perspective, too. Yeah, my buddy, a working class white guy, had the *exact* same experience even before he saw TF2: in discussing the reports of the rampant racism in the movie, the other white guys he was talking to refused to see the charicatures as "racism". It's the whole white guilt thing preventing them from acknowledging it--I'm convinced. You're absolutely right: racism is an issue of power. Whites make up around 12% of the world's population, yet they control some 70-80% of the world's wealth. All white people benefit in some way by this and all people of color suffer in some way by this. Even if a white person is dirt-poor, they possess a certain potential and a certain privilege unavailable to people of color in their same communities and even class status. That doesn't exactly sound like a fun topic to discuss if you're white--I can totally understand how that can make a white guy a tad uncomfortable! Like, I don't exactly jump for joy when my girl discusses how brutal sexism affects her life everyday, y'know? But we all have to take those hard looks and not pretend that lives aren't destroyed by oppression every day.

Incidentally, I'm not sure that young people today are somehow less interested in equality. I think the way racism works on a cultural level changes over time and I think what we are seeing is a sort of insidious liberal form of racism where these problems are downplayed in the media for the "benefit" of the middle class. Well, this topic of how racism operates in the media deserves more research and discussion, but I'm convinced that how ever it operates today is significantly different enough that it affects today's youth very different from how *our* racism affected us when we were little. I guess what I'm saying is that it's NOT "kids these days"...it's oppression these days.

Oh, and dude, being mixed heritage is a fucking shit-show. I have a few friends (colleagues in our social change organization) that are half white, half something of color. They suffer a TON...and I'm not gonna lie here: I'm actually kinda glad I (as a "full-blooded" person of color) don't have to deal with that shit. I've worked with these folks a lot and basically, the racism that hits them from whites is sometimes less overtly brutal, but it's usually VERY different from what "full-bloods" get. Unmixed people of color basically can't hide. Our color or the shapes of our eye or the texture of our hair is in people's faces ALL the time...so the racism that hits us is very direct and honest. I know a lot of mixed people have to deal with invisibility in a certain way where whites around them simply don't acknowledge that the ARE people of color and run their racism with no qualms around (if not *at*) them. PLUS...on the other side of the equation, people of color whose heritage is mixed with white often have difficulty finding a home with other (full-blooded) members of their non-white side. Unmixed people of color often run their internalized racism at mixed people in such a way that they're often ostracized. And on the other hand, insidious "assimilation" forms of internalized racism exist, too, like "colorism", where light-skinned black folks...especially of Caribbean descent...place themselves at a higher "value" than dark-skinned ones. It's tough.

Oh, and your points about political correctness were spot on, too. I see PC as TOTALLY liberal racism. Again, it's an "out" for liberal whites to stick their fingers in their ears and shout "LA-LA-LA-LA-LA"...so as to avoid *actually* having to deal with racial or economic inequality.


Scopedog Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Yes. I fault anyone who is in a position to raise
> awareness or stop enabling and does the opposite.
> It would very well cost them their careers and
> fortunes, and I respect that, but until more
> people in positions of considerable influence make
> this sort of sacrifice, I do not foresee a great
> deal of change.

Well, again, I tend to agree...just like I agree that ALL people need to do their part to end all oppressions. But just holding onto this attitude isn't going to change much. Remember what I said about Bill Cosby? Rigidly holding onto this attitude (and doing little else) is the same as telling your lifelong friend who's suffering from a drug addiction that he's bad or stupid for being addicted. Ineffectual.

Remember, "fault" and "blame" are just as artificial social constructs as "race". To try to assign blame is a waste of time...it doesn't change shit.

And besides, it would be tough to convince a Russell Simmons or a Dr. Dre NOT to exploit white kids in the 'burbs and take their money. That's a helluva hustle, man...and we ALL hustle in some way!


> I realize this is the most sensitive element of
> our conversation. What follows is my opinion and
> something I strongly believe. This is not
> intended to inflame or insult and if you wish to
> provide feedback I am more than happy to
> re-examine it:
>
> I don't think you can disentangle the implications
> of thug lyfe from the thug fashion that it
> inspires. I keep using the term wannabe because
> I'm referring to a specific type of person- one
> who is decidedly not a criminal, and yet emulates
> the style and demeanor, often to exaggerated
> proportions, such as Ali G. Wearing a crucifix
> means something. Wearing a menorah means
> something. Wearing a swastika means something.
> Wearing what gangsters wear means something. I
> think emulating, glorifying, and romanticizing
> thug lyfe empowers and legitimizes it.

So here's the problem...you refuse to look past how upset you are about wannabe gangsters and see the real issues involved. But first, I'd be angry, too, if I were surrounded by a bunch of people trying to be something they're clearly not. I get that. But you're missing the point. There is no "wearing what gangsters wear". There's wearing what hip hoppers wear. Hip hop has been around for decades and the styles continue to evolve, but traditionally, it's always been about what real people are rocking in the streets. Real inner city youths defining their own culture for themselves. It just so happens that, because of the dynamics of racism and classism, that a number of inner city youths are and have been involved in crime. This is highly unfortunate. The net result is that there are hip hop heads, gangster or not, that dress like...you guessed it...hip hop heads.

To insinuate that everyone who dresses in this urban style is a thug or condones criminality is...well...pretty fucked up, dude.

And, honestly, I don't even believe you! I mean, WE are having a great conversation here that we both (and others, of course) are getting a lot out of. This indicates to me that you respect me. And yet, I dress in these ways. I am hip hop. But clearly, you know that I'm the last person to romanticize thugism, drug dealing, gang violence, etc...so now you know that dressing "like a gangster", as you say, does NOT glorify these things.

> I like Guess, Armani Exchange, Express, and the
> like. You might see me in one outfit and think I
> look flamboyant or gay. You might see me in
> another and think I look professional or uptight.
> I accept that.

Well, as a straight person, I have homophobia like everyone else, but I think the last thing I'd call you is "gay"! My actually gay girlfriend might frown upon that! ;)

Oh, and if I (or anyone else) did disrespect you based on your style of dress, I would hope you WOULDN'T just "accept" it. It's not just how it affects you...it's also about how that person's oppressor (or internalized oppressor) baggage affects the whole world. I'm not saying attack the person who attacks you, but address those repeating patterns of oppressive behavior in whatever way makes sense for the situation. Remember, we're trying to forge a better tomorrow here.

> It was tongue-in-cheek.

Thank the gods. You had me worried a bit there! Hey, with all the wardrobe stuff, I wasn't exactly sure what to expect from you! ;)

> I'm sure this conversation is more interesting
> than the movie. :)

Absolutely!

> I was filled with angst at one time, too, until I
> realized that we're all more alike in the ways
> that count then we tend to notice.

Agreed. And the only way to realize those similarities...and ultimately celebrate them...is to get out of our comfort zones and connect with as many different folks as possible. It's not about angst. It's about creating a just society for our children to inherit.

--
Sanjeev

'Us Massholes straight up just don't give a fuck. I still pronounce "Mazinger" as "Tranzor Z".'
-Nekrodave
Photos I took to show what you can do with Chromia and a figma.

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I asked if I have "Time For L-Gaim" but I got "No Reply From The Wind".
Attachments:
open | download - Chromia & Kagami02.jpg (470.4 KB)
open | download - Chromia & Mikuru01.jpg (454.6 KB)
open | download - Chromia & Mikuru02.jpg (385.2 KB)
MSW
As if the Jar Jar twins wern't bad enough, the film is equaly bad in its depiction of women.

Yes, Megan Fox is beautiful, but could the character she plays be more underwritten? She is even tasked with stripping off biker gear in an effort to get Sam to stay...clearly stateing to both Sam and the audiance that as a character "my only worthwhile attribute as is sex appeal". Honestly take out the written in requirement that her character be a human female, and the role could have been played by a dog. She is nothing more than Sams pet in the film. Can't even comment on Megan Fox's acting ability as her role is pitiful window dressing.

Seriously, Micheal Bay must think real life is exactly like reality TV.
Sanjeev (Admin)
Well, again, I haven't seen the movie, but I doubt that for a damn instant. Actually, I forget if it was here, Gcrush's thread in the OT...or maybe on Andrew's TF2 slamfest on CDX, but someone definitely pointed out how every female character with the possible exception of John Turturro's character's mother gets objectified in some way.

I wish I could say I was surprised...
Oh man, I wish I could host a slamfest. Looking at me you'd figure I'd be the head of a poetry slamfest.
Sanjeev (Admin)
Oh...hahaha...I didn't even think of the actual colloquial definition of "slamfest". I was really thinking "savage beatdown".

But, yes, if you were dressed in all black, you'd totally look like someone hosting a poetry slam.
I still think the dumbest thing about TF 1 and TF 2 is that nerds all over the internet bash Bay movies all the time. I mean, who honestly liked "The Island" or "Armageddon?" Yet now he's the best director ever.
MSW
"The Island" started out with potential, the core story about useing clones as health insurence policy for the rich had promise. Could have been as interesting as "Gattaca" in the right hands...But Bay musta been bored and turned it into another protracted chase film full of explosions. Dumb, dumb, dumb.

And what good could you seriously say about "Armageddon"?

About the only good thing one could say of Bay is his films are slick. High production values, photographed well, look like super expensive TV commercials. But they are hollow, completely lacking the substance to support all the flashy eye candy...For some people that is enough, and some people bought Pet Rocks too.

...and some collect robot toys :P
Say what you want of the film, it's definitely Blu-ray screencap fodder worthy.

I'm still waiting for the creators of South Park to to take a hit at this film since they really hate Mr. Bay.

--------------------------------------------------------------

I asked if I have "Time For L-Gaim" but I got "No Reply From The Wind".
"The Island" is just "Parts: The Clonus Horror" with a budget anyway.
If you thought Superman was a dick, Optimus Prime has him pretty well beat. Transformers is like an existential adaptation of The Diary of a Young Girl featuring robots. Or something equally horrible/absurd.

Someone already mentioned how the Autobots chase down and murder the Decepticons in the beginning of the film for the crime of, you know, being there. Today I happened to read the file card for the Sideways action figure (the bug looking bad-guy silver car thing). It literally describes him as a mere courier who avoided combat at all costs, always hoping the larger Decepticons would protect him. Which is why the Autobot good-guy rollerskating silver car slices him in half during the opening chase scene in the film. Because he was a fucking courier trying to hide from the (sexually?) abusive robot police.

Chopping a colossal-pussy-of-a-delivery-boy in half because his boss is an asshole fills me with more sympathy for the character than AWESOME-KABOOM. But perhaps that's the real lesson of the film. We all need to take a little harder look at who we think the good guys are in life. Because they sure as fuck ain't the post office.
Anonymous User
MSW Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
>
> Honestly take out the written in requirement that
> her character be a human female, and the role
> could have been played by a dog. She is nothing
> more than Sams pet in the film.

I though that was Bumblebee's roll in the film - like some kind of fucking St. Bernard. Should'a had a beer keg hanging around his neck...
Anonymous User
Roger Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
>
> I mean, come on. Why did you reward Michael Bay
> with your ten dollars a second time? Why are you
> buying the toys? If you really give a shit about
> this, take a cue from the people who had a problem
> with Don Imus' comments.
>
> Start a Transformers boycott.

I didn't buy a thing from the first film, and I sure as hell aren't going to buy a thing from the second.
Gcrush Wrote:
Because they sure as fuck ain't the post
> office.

What's the matter with the Post Office?



Thank you
Here's the thing about the racist robots and what Bay did. Speaking as a black guy growing up in America YOU ARE ALWAYS AWARE THAT YOU ARE AN AFRICAN MERICAN OR BLACK AMERICAN BUT NOT AN AMERICAN.

Shows like Transformers were 30 min bundles of escapism where it was about ROBOTS fighting not racism. (Ok they make Blaster's voice (who changed into a ghetto blaster) black and the Latino teen Rauel was a car jacker trying to steel Tracks before he saw the error of his ways.)

But why TF2 stings so much is that Bay forcefully addeded racism to his movie from a show that started out as an escape FROM the real problems of the world.
Marvin Lee Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Speaking as a black guy growing up in
> America YOU ARE ALWAYS AWARE THAT YOU ARE AN
> AFRICAN MERICAN OR BLACK AMERICAN BUT NOT AN
> AMERICAN.

Oh, please. It's 2009 and the father of the current President of the United States came from Kenya. The people who voted for him didn't question that he's an American.

> Shows like Transformers were 30 min bundles of
> escapism where it was about ROBOTS fighting not
> racism.

Actually, Transformers was all about racism. There really wasn't any difference, biologically (or mechanically) speaking, between Autobots and Decepticons, but they hated each other because one wore a red symbol and the other wore a purple one.

(that crashing sound you're hearing is Marvin's world collapsing)
Depending on the continuity, I thought it was because one group was built for war and began oppressing the peaceful other group. Of course, we only hear one side of the story, so it could all be propaganda.

On a side note, I'm looking at the Transformers the Movie coverage in Dengeki Hobby, and wondering to myself, why can't American toy magazines and toy sites take pictures that are anywhere close to the ones in these magazines? Even their domestic coverage of stuff like Star Wars is better than that crappy Toyfare they sell here.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 07/03/2009 11:42PM by fujishig.
Sanjeev,

I know you put alot of thought and effort into your response and I was going to respond point by point to your comments because although I agree with some things, I still disagree with others. I decided against it because as stimulating as this conversation is, I don't think we're going to see eye to eye. Don't take this as a flagrant dismissal of your views. I'm also concerned about the possibility of antagonizing you unnecessarily because I have strong feelings about this topic (as I'm sure you also do) and you've already clearly exhibited greater circumspection and restraint than I have. I feel that you are one of the most erudite and articulate contributors to this board, and you have had and continue to have my respect. Please, let's agree to disagree. :)
Sanjeev (Admin)
It's all good man. We can agree to disagree here. Hopefully, we can meet up someday at a Summit or a con, talk toy, and notice those similarities I'm sure we share!

Roger, a number of conservatives in the media questioned Obama's status as a US citizen. But, yeah, chances are, those who voted for him probably didn't question it!

Still, I'm with Marvin: because of the pervasion of racism in our society, I'm always aware that I'm a person of color before I'm a *person*, and I'm sure it's even more so for black folks here. That's just how it is. Hell, this is a toy bbs, and I find myself having either to argue this shit that I experience everyday...or suck it up and pretend that it doesn't affect me when the topic comes up.
Roger, aren't Decepticons and Autobots different political ideologies? I thought a few characters in the cartoon hopped from team to team - something that would be impossible if they were races. Still, Jazz was a pretty offensive character.

And Sanjeev - your English is so good that I find it difficult to believe anyone could discriminate against you...
Oh, please. It's 2009 and the father of the current President of the United States came from Kenya. The people who voted for him didn't question that he's an American.

> Shows like Transformers were 30 min bundles of
> escapism where it was about ROBOTS fighting not
> racism.

Actually, Transformers was all about racism. There really wasn't any difference, biologically (or mechanically) speaking, between Autobots and Decepticons, but they hated each other because one wore a red symbol and the other wore a purple one.

(that crashing sound you're hearing is Marvin's world collapsing)

________________________________________________________________________________

Are you kidding me!!!

Have you ever noticed that it is never a person of color who ever makes a statement like that.

Allow me to introduce you to the world you don't know.

1.Obama is a oddity at best. He is person of color who became President because of his over achieving skills, charm and resume. Very few people in office has his Hardvard background as well as his community activitism. If he has a background like Bush he wouldn't have even been in any office.

2. Obama would have NEVER NEVER been elected if Bush hadn't F'd up so much, in so many different areas. It's broke Hell now let the minority have it and you know what if it's still broke blame the black guy.

I don't want to turn a good TF BBS into a political forum so I'll stop there.

Trust me You don't know the feeling.

Here is another thing you don't know, Minorities don't care if you like them or hate them. That's the world deal with it. It's the not knowing that upsets minorities.

Did I not get this Job because they really found someone who was better qualified or was it because I was (fill in minority here) black

Did I get turned down for that house or car loan because my credit wasn't as good as someone elses or was it because I was __________

When giving a salary request are they paying me less than _________ because he's more qualified or because they just don't want to pay a minority as much.

When coming out of Nursing school, my wife and her best friend (who was white and very fat. I'll explain the fat remark in a minute.) went together and filled out resumes for nursing positions. On the five different places they went her white friend was called back in for an interview from 4 of them my wife only one. Just to let you know my wife's friend isn't the most dynamic personality to put it mildly, while my wife was selected to give the speach at her nursing graduation. A friend of my wife at one of the hospitals later told her that they had already hired all the required quota of black nurses. This was 1994. I mention the weight issue because a lot of employers look at over weight people as a potential health insurance risk, not right but real world true. So they'd rather take the fat nurse than the black one.

I graduated at the top of my class at UAB in Advertising and PR and I interviewed with 5 different agencies. I didn't get hired at any of them even though my scores and resume was higher than everyone. None of these agencies had any minorities working there not one. One actually hired a person who was a year under me who I was helping pass some of his classes AND offered him 5K more than they were willing to offer me. When I asked my old professor who had recommended me to these agencies if I had done anything wrong she said no. That they were all interested but they didn't have any black accounts or products so they didn't know if I couldn't relate to mainstream products. A black person can't understand Coke, Pepsi or McDonalds unless it had a hiphop underbeat? That was 1993

Thanks to dumb a** statements like the one above (Scratch that I should just say sheltered) and people not looking at people as just people where the difference add variety not seclusion I have gotten SEVERAL comedy bits out of people like you. This month I contracted to do two different comedy venue and I didn't get the contract. It went to an older white guy who I know isn't a comic and hasn't even gotten video. And he bidded $500 to $1200 more than I did. The truth they wanted an older WHITE guy. I know they guy and I know he is less qulified. That was 2009.

To see me do material on stupid comments like the one listed in that other post go to: www.gigmasters.com/comedian/marvinlee

I make a living off of people like you.
B00
sigh, I remember when this thread was all about the toys....

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Okay, Marvin, we get it, you hate fat people.
Nah I don't but I'm sure you're kidding. In regards to my wife's friend I'm not talking, a little plump, I'm talking about breathing hard after she walks about a block and climbing stairs is a real effort type of weight.

My point was that this employer would rather take someone with a major health risk than a minority and I am strictly referring to this situation.

The point is that Obama doesn't wipe he slate clean, but to flip the script I'll be the first to say (and I have publically) Black people screw over black people more than any other group have ever done.

And Boo you're right, it's time to get back to the enjoyment of what brought us here the toys and their related connections.

Speaking of which I heard an interview where Peter Cullen said that he has so many guys from the X Generation say that Optimus Prime kinda became a pseudo Father figure for kids growing up during that time without a dad. He said that Prime represented everything a good dad represented. He was tough, compassionate without coming across as a wimp, had an unshakeable moral center and was absolutely cool.

I never realized that but my dad died when I was 12 in 82 from Agent Orange and you know he was right I guess I did look at Prime as a Father Figure. That's why when he died in TF the movie and was changed so dramatically in Bay's adaption I took it more personally than I did over the other figures.

Man my step dad was an Autobot.....
B00
Leader Prime will be getting blaster parts.



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Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 07/05/2009 10:15PM by B00.
Attachments:
open | download - Blaster_Prime.jpg (101.2 KB)
Marvin, do I gather you live in Columbus?

More serious than thou
are those blaster parts another fan project, or are they going to sell me the same toy again?
B00
Same leader class, just with an open face and blaster parts. I wish it were custom parts.

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