Next SOC should be.......

Posted by G28 
The sculpts are great, the joints on some, not so much. If you're willing to get your Drifand on mod them out it's all good but this only comes with the willingness to work for it. In my case, it was a simple matter of disassembling the figures at the joints as it seems they were designed to do. Just adding a triangle of electrical tape to add a little more friction seems to have done the trick.

Also, it's not the PVC that's the problem it's the hard clear plastic they used for the joints. On my Gedo the shoulder assembly shattered when I tried it out the first time out the box. Also, my big mitts managed to twist off one of those ball joints while trying to force the scabbard in to the back carpace. Fortunately neither wasn't so bad that it couldn't be salvaged but poo pooing the PVC in this case is totally off the mark.
Yeah all in all the LoBW releases were underwhelming to say the least. What I'd like to see is something more along the lines of a modernized versions of the old clover diecast...something about that chunky styling that makes me happy...but with more range of motion in the joints, oh and a ton of accessories...

Hey if we are talking pipe dreams let's have a Led Mirage from FSS...that would be sweet.
Sanjeev (Admin)
Okay, so SIC's clearly OUT! :P

Vincent, I have some magnemo Micromen...and some of the LED Laser ones from that era as well. Fantastic stuff. The LED Acroyers are probably my favorite non-vintage Microman toys...

Andrew, I read your review...but you know how it is! I need to mess with this thing in person...just like with the Yamato VF-1. Again, I hate the design, but it sounds bitchin'. A fine successor to the Dual Model...if they did a Dougram like that, I'd be down...even if it *were* cartoon accurate (read: slender, human-like proportions), rather than boxy like the classic models.

fujikuro, it's interesting because some of the toys I had as a young kid (Godaikins, especially) were really not necessarily "sandbox" worthy toys. Gardian was NOT crumbly, by the way...not back then, anyway. But even with toys like that, I usually treated them pretty well. Yeah, they took trips outside to get in the dirt, but I wasn't *literally* bashing them against each other or leaving them outside in the rain or whatnot.

But there's something about that blocky aesthetic that's impossible to put into words, I think. It's not JUST that they were more durable toys (for the most part, anyway). Remember Tim Brisko's photography? Remember how he made those toys look larger than life? Those toy designs usually failed to capture the dynamism of the cartoon mechanicals...but it didn't matter. On the screen, they were fast and flexible. But with the toys, it was as though the designers wanted to convey a sense of size and majesty instead.

Carrying a brick of diecast in your hand with three measley points of articulation was okay...as long as it was chromed out and painted in glossy primary colors! The crazy articulation of today's collectibles just wouldn't add much to that experience...and, in fact, the added potential for floppiness would even detract from the Roman pillar-like qualities of those toys.

That's why I loved the Dougram models. They took that boxy aesthetic and dropped it into realistic war zones. Badass!
>Vincent, I have some magnemo Micromen...and some of the LED Laser ones from that >era as well. Fantastic stuff. The LED Acroyers are probably my favorite non-vintage >Microman toys...

Oh, do you have these, especially the dark gray one?

[www.microforever.com]

[www.microforever.com]

I wonder if these were released for the Korean line as the JP ones were quite rare (I saw the President Acroyear sell for $80 and that was almost a decade ago).

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I asked if I have "Time For L-Gaim" but I got "No Reply From The Wind".
Sanjeev Wrote:
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I'd be down...even if it *were*
> cartoon accurate (read: slender, human-like
> proportions), rather than boxy like the classic
> models.

I dunno, the original design is pretty box. I mean it's classic Okawara. The guy has two poses for his mecha. Standing with your hips out and hunched over.

>Remember Tim Brisko's photography? Remember how he made those toys look larger >than life? Those toy designs usually failed to capture the dynamism of the >cartoon mechanicals...but it didn't matter. On the screen, they were fast and >flexible. But with the toys, it was as though the designers wanted to convey a >sense of size and majesty instead.


That seems more like a function of Tim Brisko's photography. Some of those toys he took pictures of were more modern like the Bloodsucker and they had the same overall feel. I might be able to do that with my photos, but he's a pro and I'm still an amateur. Does something like this model kit (which was modified to look more accurate) lack the same sense of size and majesty? I feel like you're not giving the designs themselves enough credit.

[nosutaru.fc2web.com]


> That's why I loved the Dougram models. They took
> that boxy aesthetic and dropped it into realistic
> war zones. Badass!

Do you think they're realistic just because the mecha have glass canopies and rollbars on their knees?
VF5SS Wrote:
> Sanjeev Wrote:
> > I'd be down...even if it *were*
> > cartoon accurate (read: slender, human-like
> > proportions), rather than boxy like the classic
> > models.
>
> I dunno, the original design is pretty box.

I believe you meant to say "the original design is pretty boss".




(Yes, I know that's not what you meant to say.)

-Paul Segal

"Oh, the anger is never far, never far." -SteveH
>
> Do you think they're realistic just because the
> mecha have glass canopies and rollbars on their
> knees?



Yes. That's a big part of what sells me :P Right angles help as well.

Introducing Prometheus Rising Studio.
[prometheusrising.net]
I make 3D printed mecha action figures.

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Sanjeev (Admin)
Vincent Z. Wrote:
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> Oh, do you have these, especially the dark gray
> one?

Yup! Those are the ones. Absolutely gorgeous figures. I got hooked on them at my first Summit at Mason's...the "jerk"! ;)

In fact, I think I actually have two Acroshadows... :P

Anyway, Andrew, it's true: the original Dougram animation designs were fairly blocky...seemingly more so than the original Gundam animation designs. The thing is, if you watch the animation, they have very rounded lines and move VERY fluidly (humanlike).



It's a little similar to Gundam, right? The
Sanjeev Wrote:
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> Anyway, Andrew, it's true: the original Dougram
> animation designs were fairly blocky...seemingly
> more so than the original Gundam animation
> designs. The thing is, if you watch the animation,
> they have very rounded lines and move VERY fluidly
> (humanlike).

It's a giant robot. It's supposed to move like a person. Starship Troopers powered suit on the bounce you know?

> It would definitely piss me off if someone came in
> and started "modernizing" the designs like Katoki
> in every fucking product that was made (glad I'm
> not an OG Gundam fan...). Is that fear justified?
> Well...

Revoltechs are supposed to look weird and exaggerated. Are Revoltechs representative of the majority of mecha toys? Not really. They're a line unto themselves. Nobody tried to "modernize" the Scopedog or the Ingram. Even Gundam kits have become much more Retro like the Master Grade version 2.0 Zaku and Gundam and even the Gouf.

> Oh, and lastly, when I said "realistic war zones",
> I was referring to the Revell "Robotech" model
> dioramas that showed the models marching alongside
> tanks, jeeps, and whatnot, all painted up in
> appropriate camo schemes...

Which is basically you getting excited about fanart. It's not indicative of the actual thing. I almost want to say if you don't like the truth, stop following character based toy lines :p

Soon everything will be fansubbed and all of our expectations will be destroyed.
<<Soon everything will be fansubbed and all of our expectations will be destroyed.>>

That's why you shouldn't have expectations. Just enjoy the shit.

---------------------------------
[pgaijin.blogspot.com]
My Dougram toys battle using proper military and squad tactics, and move at a maneuverability about halfway between VOTOMS and Gundam. Except for the Revoltechs, which are elist snobs and stick to themselves, talking about the old toys behind their backs.

Introducing Prometheus Rising Studio.
[prometheusrising.net]
I make 3D printed mecha action figures.
Sanjeev (Admin)
Well, I don't see how the Revel Robotech dioramas are really "fanart". I mean, they're official catalog images of kits that are meant to be painted. And it's not like the structure of the robots were customized AT ALL in those pics. Those are stock kits...custom painted and displayed among other modern military models. Even the *true* toys--the Dual Models--were meant to be customized. If Takara released them that way, isn't that the "actual thing"?

Anyway, I fully realize that what I want isn't necessarily the truth...as long as you define "truth" as the canonical animation designs. And that's fine. Whatever floats people's boats. I just find it interesting to explore different robot representation aethetics, and how they fit in with the fandom historically (different eras and different styles).
Yet you seem ignore the aesthetics and fandom with regards to these toys are their original context :p
Quote

Even Gundam kits have become much more Retro like the Master Grade version 2.0 Zaku and Gundam and even the Gouf.

For which I am thankful. So damn tired of people thinking that giant fighting robots need to be more modern or "realistic."


Quote

That's why you shouldn't have expectations. Just enjoy the shit.

YES. This, dammit.




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I'm with Sanjeev on this argument. I havent seen Dougram, and I have no desire to. Waste of time.
I don't think an SOC Dougram would look bad at all, if you look at some of the other mecha pieces they've done they are in a realistic as opposed to anime style. It's the super robot stuff that gets completely redesigned to look like the anime with no regard to it's previous toy.
I say "realistic" and by that i mean "has aesthetic similarities to currently available machines" not "can it dance and hop around like a human does". I want a walking tank, not a ballerina.

And yes Bandai could do a Dougram toy if they wanted to, they have released Dougram gashapon and other items in the past and they can do it again. Takara-Tomy certainly isn't doing anything with the property.

With all that said I am going to retract my request for an SOC Dougram, and insteat demand that CM's make one in their brave gokin line. Those guys pay respect to the vintage toy in addition to the cartoon that it's based on, which is why I love their stuff. When they design something, it's clear they start with the original toy and figure out how to make it better.
machinesoldier Wrote:
> I don't think an SOC Dougram would look bad at
> all, if you look at some of the other mecha pieces
> they've done they are in a realistic as opposed to
> anime style. It's the super robot stuff that gets
> completely redesigned to look like the anime with
> no regard to it's previous toy.

Yeah, I definitely do not see why some people seem to be afraid that a Dougram SOC would look like the Revoltech. I can't think of any example where the SOC line has done the kind of ridiculous, pigeon-toed, crotch-thrusting, curvilinear-twisting that represents Kaiyodo redesigns at their worst.

> Those guys pay respect to the vintage toy in
> addition to the cartoon that it's based on, which
> is why I love their stuff. When they design
> something, it's clear they start with the original
> toy and figure out how to make it better.

I don't know what you mean about CM's, really... their super robot items seem to be just as anime-focused as SOCs, and their real robot items seem pretty middle-of-the-road, not exceptionally more old-school than Yamato or Megahouse or whoever.

I think if you want a Dougram that resembles the old toys, springy legs and metal shafts and all, the place for it is in the Soul Spec line. Look at the Soul Spec L-Gaim's legs or the Soul Spec Dragonar's armor sheaths and tell me what's not what Dougram needs.


Prometheum5 Wrote:
> My Dougram toys battle using proper military and
> squad tactics, and move at a maneuverability about
> halfway between VOTOMS and Gundam.

I'll bet they do.
(Roll 2d8 for a super jump)

-Paul Segal

"Oh, the anger is never far, never far." -SteveH
The Soul Spec Dragonar was specifically emulating the old 1/100 kit with the pre-built frame.
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Sanjeev (Admin)
Yeah, I definitely see the merit of the Soul Spec line...too bad they'll never do a Dougram! :P
asterphage Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------

>
> I don't know what you mean about CM's, really...
> their super robot items seem to be just as
> anime-focused as SOCs, and their real robot items
> seem pretty middle-of-the-road, not exceptionally
> more old-school than Yamato or Megahouse or
> whoever.
>
> I think if you want a Dougram that resembles the
> old toys, springy legs and metal shafts and all,
> the place for it is in the Soul Spec line. Look at
> the Soul Spec L-Gaim's legs or the Soul Spec
> Dragonar's armor sheaths and tell me what's not
> what Dougram needs.
>
>

Have you actually handled any of their mecha toys? The ride armor is essentially a scaled down, and admittedly floppy, version of the Gakken.
The legioss feels like an old HCM. Put it next to a hcm valkyrie and they look like they belong together.
The mugen calibur is SO much like the takatoku, only better posability, more diecast, and the accessories are actually functional.
I'm talking about the way a toy functions and feels, in addition to how it looks.
I agree with you on the SOC Spec though, the dragonar is pretty close to the old dual models. The layzner also, but to a lesser degree. I kind of liked the LGAIM, but the armor isn't removable and it isn't much better than the super HCM.
Toys based on the same design have similar mechanisms?

who knew

CM's may have a more toy like bent in their products but everything they do is focused on making show accurate toys (or close as possible).




Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 01/25/2010 01:59PM by Runaphen.
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Runaphen: Beautiful...I would buy the whole lot...As much as I love my old clover I'd love to see a SOC of dunbine...Dare I say he is tops on my list...(well after a Mortar Head from FSS but that will never happen...) Now hop to Bandai...
While Im not a fan of the anime, a SOC Dunbine would kick so much ass, plus I love the insect style theme. I was thinking what about a Gekiganger full on SOC...I mean I guess they would have to break it into 3 parts or maybe a full on set, aside from looking similiar to the Getters GekiGanger would be awesome.



I need an SOC of Dunbine. Far far more than I want to see any other bot in toy form at this point.




C'mmonnnn Bandai.
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Ok, so AFTER they finally do an SoC Dunbine in 2017, THEN what should the next SoC be?

Also: They might do a Billbine but that would likely be it for the Aura Battlers. I'll have to console myself with my Seven Drumlo.

-Paul Segal

"Oh, the anger is never far, never far." -SteveH
I wonder if that Unifive Daikyozin/Daikyuzin/Daibazin/however the heck it's said, will be trotted back out? Seemed a pretty cool design. Could be an easy update, and rerelease for Bandai under SOC? Mabye not enough following.

and,..my semiannual cry....GODSIGMAAAAA!!
L-Gaim MkII and Auge.

--------------------------------------------------------------

I asked if I have "Time For L-Gaim" but I got "No Reply From The Wind".
fel9 Wrote:
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> (well after a Mortar Head from FSS but that
> will never happen...)



Found on 2chan. Wave ABS and Diecast 1:100 Knight of Gold. Could be a W.H.A.M Mortar Headd. Cross your fingers.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 01/28/2010 01:36AM by Scopedog.
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Scopedog: Holy Crap!....Thanks for sifting through the 2chan so I don't have to...I have always loved Nagano's designs, but was never hopeful for any toys of them....count all my fingers and toes crossed...
Sanjeev (Admin)
They did some super-crappy (PVC?) Mortar Head figures back in the 90's. Kaiyodo, I believe. Anyway, they sucked as much balls as MSIA.

These, however, could be very cool.
Yeah I knew about the PVC guys and I am glad I passed on them...I have the modeling chops to but together one of the kits, but that just isn't the same for some reason. Not substantial enough for me.
Scopedog Wrote:
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>
> Found on 2chan. Wave ABS and Diecast 1:100 Knight
> of Gold. Could be a W.H.A.M Mortar Headd. Cross
> your fingers.

Good god. If that's true, it'll be an amazing coup.

Nagano has a long standing hatred of toys after the Kaiyodo POC's - I would love to see his ban on non-model representations be lifted with something like this.

Even better if it was a LED Mirage.
Sanjeev (Admin)
Actually, his hatred of toys goes back well before the Kaiyodo debaucle. It was a near-miracle they came out. I figured their low quality was a nail in the coffin to further toy production based on Mortar Heads.

Anyway, I assembled one of the pre-chrome plated KoG kits from Wave years and years ago. Lovely display piece, but absolutely miserable in terms of function.
Votoms Scopedog the size of Big O.
The Yamato Scopedog isn't big enough?

---------------------------------
[pgaijin.blogspot.com]
hillsy Wrote:
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> The Yamato Scopedog isn't big enough?

A Big-O sized VOTOMS mech would be a lot smaller than a Yamato 1/12. Probably a good thing, too, since the Yamato is too big for its own good and suffers a lot in the joint stability department. Pretty once you paint it up, though.

That said, the DMZ's are pretty damn nice as it is. I wouldn't say no to a slightly smaller, more-diecasty version though.
The Veef and I were discussing this the other night... I think we've already passed 'Peak Scopedog'... I'd be mighty surprised if we saw any new Scopedog toy for quite a while... the Yamato and DMZ lines both went down in shambles due to over saturation and the fact that they didn't release almost anything besides Scopedogs. Big props to Takara for actually releasing Rabidlydog and Strikedog toys, which is remarkable, but Yamato's biggest variances were the Brutishdog and Strong Bacchus. There's only so many Scopedogs a man can have (lord knows I have that many)... we don't need another Scopedog toy, maybe ever. VOTOMS needs some diversity of toys long before it needs any more Scopeys.

Introducing Prometheus Rising Studio.
[prometheusrising.net]
I make 3D printed mecha action figures.
Some of that was Paul's idea. I can't take all the credit.

We've also hit peak Ingram.
Bismarck would be fun. Dairugger would be fun too. A nicely proportioned albegas combiner would be great with a super abega would be awesome.

just stuff to fantasize about.

A Blue Noah BPX would be cool.
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