[DESIGNER VINYLS] Hot or Not?

Posted by Sanjeev 
I know I sound like a broken record but every time I see a NAG I get angry that people are so into them. Yeah yeah yeah to each their own, but come on really? That toy is 1 million percent HYPE. Can't believe how many people have become sheep with it on SB. You couldn't pay me to take one of these....
Sanjeev (Admin)
I've been pretty successful at avoiding Nag-rage as of late. I guess part of it is because there really aren't too many new Japanese vinyls that interest me...or at least any new Japanese vinyls that get discussed on skullbrain's "Japan Toys" board. Whenever I click on that heading these days, I rarely find a thread with an unread post that remotely interests me. So...out of sight, out of mind... :/

Anyway, I just noticed Walker has revamped his Cosmic Squadron blog. Looks totally different:
[cosmicsquadron.blogspot.com]
I heard rumblings of a webcomic or something. Hope that shit happens--that'd be tight!
Actually Sanjeev, my lovely g/f got me the Bullmark Beautiful Book of Monsters book for x-mas and I was in heaven looking at the pics. Those giant size Bullmarks are really special. Can't do anything right now do to space issues, but once I move in to a new apt or home I might just go vintage myself (still going to keep the repro collection though!)
suggestion. Buy a NagNagNag. Bootleg it. Hilarity ensues.
cae
> giant size Bullmarks

Current Holy Grail: Giant Size Redking

---------------------------------
hassenpfeffer
Sanjeev (Admin)
Chris, that Beautiful Book is amazing, isn't it? I got a copy maybe six months ago, and it's just amazing. I pore through it regularly. I'd love to meet Saito someday--not just to see his collection, but just to pick his brain about what he likes and what he doesn't...

Oh, and speaking of the Beautiful Book, did you see xvivahatex reference Saito's Dodongo's in the Vintage thread about telling repros from legit vintage?

Ah, but enough about REAL toys...let's get back to bootlegging Nags! ;)
ed
I'd like a nag.

It would instantly go on ebay haha.
Nags are being bootlegged now? Woah I missed that. Actually Ed has the right idea. Get a Nag, flip it on the bay, and use that money to buy real toys. Brilliant!
Sanjeev Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Chris, that Beautiful Book is amazing, isn't it? I
> got a copy maybe six months ago, and it's just
> amazing. I pore through it regularly. I'd love to
> meet Saito someday--not just to see his
> collection, but just to pick his brain about what
> he likes and what he doesn't...
>
> Oh, and speaking of the Beautiful Book, did you
> see xvivahatex reference Saito's Dodongo's in the
> Vintage thread about telling repros from legit
> vintage?
>
> Ah, but enough about REAL toys...let's get back to
> bootlegging Nags! ;)


Send me a link to that thread I looked up his posts but could not find it. I think I saw it but my memory is cloudy.

I take that BBOM book to work every day and sneak peeks in between old people calling moaning about their newspaper not arriving. It curbs my rage.... :P
Sanjeev (Admin)
Hehe...no, I don't think Nags are being bootlegged...yet. ;)

Here's the thread on the vintage board:
[toyboxdx.com]
I'd be more than happy to boot some nags for you kids if I had one. Just sayin.
Kinda sad that people who can barely keep up in their rent payments are throwing so much $$$ around on those stupid NNNs. But also means less competition for stuff that interests me.

In other news, (and I know Gargamel isn't very popular up here) but LuLu is no longer carrying the Gargamel line. S7 consolidating their grip on Gargamel? Distro stores being punished? Gargamel peaking? Who knows....
liquidsky Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> In other news, (and I know Gargamel isn't very
> popular up here) but LuLu is no longer carrying
> the Gargamel line. S7 consolidating their grip on
> Gargamel? Distro stores being punished? Gargamel
> peaking? Who knows....


Interesting... Designer vinyl somehow continues to get more political (I assume).

Introducing Prometheus Rising Studio.
[prometheusrising.net]
I make 3D printed mecha action figures.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 01/01/2011 03:46PM by Prometheum5.
Sanjeev (Admin)
Politics? In the designer vinyl world? Never! ;)

Didn't you mention something about RxH firing all their US distributors or something? I heard that was in the works since the RxH US site started...but what's up with that?
Sanjeev Wrote:
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> Politics? In the designer vinyl world? Never! ;)
>
> Didn't you mention something about RxH firing all
> their US distributors or something? I heard that
> was in the works since the RxH US site
> started...but what's up with that?


I don't think Real Head has fired anyone, but the well certainly seems to have dried up to US distributors. At the same time, RxHUS is mostly an endless stream of posts on toys that are not available to US customers. There've been two US releases since the site launched however many months ago, one decent and one crap. RxHUS never addressed directly the role of US retailers like Lulubell moving forward, but Lulubell has had hardly any real head for sale lately (and when they do, it looks like just one or two that they managed to smuggle out). Rotofugi is even putting all their RxH stock on sale, I assume as a sign that they won't be getting any more as interest collapses in the US under the weight of not being able to get anything new.

Introducing Prometheus Rising Studio.
[prometheusrising.net]
I make 3D printed mecha action figures.
Anonymous User
I think I know what's happening. We're being punished for badmouthing the endless stream of black wash paint schemes.

I don't think there's a huge risk of RxH sputtering out over here, since the following seems to be pretty steady. Distribution just sucks at the moment. Hope the word is making its way back to Shinto Gangu.
akum6n Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> I think I know what's happening. We're being
> punished for badmouthing the endless stream of
> black wash paint schemes.

I love it. I just looked, and I have 14 figures with a black rub. Some of them are from before the explosion, like the SDCC set and the first round of Adult Chaoses, but I'm also sucker enough to have the black Orghan Bat release.

What bums me out is that I have a handful of figures between RxH and kaiju that I'd like to get rid of, and most of them were 'cool' when I got them but now I can't get rid of them. Curse you fickle Market!

Introducing Prometheus Rising Studio.
[prometheusrising.net]
I make 3D printed mecha action figures.


I'm enjoying this latest Secret Base Skull Brain quite a bit... layers of clear vinyl with glitter and sprays all add up to make a really interesting figure.

Introducing Prometheus Rising Studio.
[prometheusrising.net]
I make 3D printed mecha action figures.
Not vinyl. Still awesome. I love this guy.
[www.youtube.com]
Possibly the RxH distribution problem is related to the postal problem that surfaced a couple months ago?

I don't mind the black rubs. Have my share of them.

Also have a handful of dups or other junk that I can never sell. I just threw them in a box. Maybe try and sell them in five years rather than give them away at a fraction of their cost.

The Secret Base lucky bags or x-balls looked dreadful. The new Brain looks nice though...
MattAlt (Admin)
> (and I know Gargamel isn't very popular up here)

Really? I actually think of all the "urban" makers they have the aesthetic that most closely overlaps that of old-school toy collectors. I don't claim to like everything they've done, but when they're on they're on. Like the Gasha-dokuros or the Zagorans (especially the ones in planes/tanks.) And the Dokuroman... And the Smokin' Sentai.... I'm getting hungry for more here...

(And hey, they also made the Nekosaur vinyl. :)
Sanjeev (Admin)
MattAlt Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> ...I actually think of all the "urban" makers
> they have the aesthetic that most closely overlaps
> that of old-school toy collectors.

Might have to take great exception to that...

Their new Bagun IS pretty amazing...but only really because they drifted a bit away from their usual modern-cute style (think Sanrio, not Irutan!).

They done a couple other neat things here and there, but c'mon...Alen designed Neko, so they can't get credit for that! ;)
I'm not sure why you'd take exception to that....who out there pays as much homage to the vintage stuff? SecretBase or Real Head? Not so much. Charactics did, but it's my understanding they aren't around anymore. Butanohana, sure, but they do all the Tsuburaya properties, so I would hope so. Gargamel has done the Dokuromen, the Micromen/Acroyear, the Smoking Corps, the Gachas, Thrashman...they've put a ton of homage stuff.

---------------------------------
[pgaijin.blogspot.com]



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 01/19/2011 03:00PM by hillsy.
Sanjeev (Admin)
Well, Charactics and Butanohana wouldn't count because they make licensed toys...but in terms of designer folks who *just* make unlicensed stuff, I'd put Yamomark, Shikaruna Koubo, Dream Rocket, and maybe one or two others way ahead of Gargamel.

I guess the thing about Gargamel that sorta bugs me is that they have precious few sculpts that interest me in the remotest. In terms of standard-size kaiju, beside the Bagun they just released, they have ONE friggin' body with, like, 3 heads ("Zagoran", whatever they call the Siberian Iron Beast...Bakobako, or something, and three-eyed lizard dude).

Their various minis just don't interest me at all...but to be fair, I'm not that into vintage minis other than Popy robots either.

But you're totally right about Secret Base and Real x Head. I don't really buy those toys anyway, though!
Well, it's just a different strokes thing, I guess. Depends if you like the retro mini hero style or the retro kaiju style. I definitely fall in the former. The only thing I really like from Yamomark is the "Nickel Fighter". Some Dream Rocket stuff, is good. To me, Gargamel has the mini hero style down pat.

Oh, and I love the Charactics Toho stuff, but I meant more the Henshin Cyborg-esque minis they did....again, hero mini style. I don't think those were a licensed property....loved 'em though.

---------------------------------
[pgaijin.blogspot.com]



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 01/19/2011 03:54PM by hillsy.
Sanjeev (Admin)
Well, post up, man! I don't know much about the "mini hero style", so let's see whatcha got. Obviously, all this shit's subjective...but yeah, I'm a traditional kaiju guy more so than anything else. Doughty once showed me a Gatcha...thing. A little clear ball with a littler glowie ball inside...with arms and legs. I guess there was a bunch of "kewl" shit molded into his outer armor...like an original NES controller and stuff like that. Did absolutely nothing for me, but I swear the man had a boner. And eight-foot shaven yeti...with a boner. Truly terrifying.

As for Charactics, I'm pretty sure the HC/Invader stuff was licensed by Takara. Are they still in business? I've kinda lost track of who's still "in the game". :/
Well, think of all the Popy hero minis...Kamen Rider, Ultraman, insert Toku hero here...all little fighting poses or arms raised, little cloth scarves. As for the Gacha stuff, it just screams Robodaachi and Time Bokan, at me. Plus, you give a little chromed robot in a clear vinyl shell, and *I* have an 8ft shaven boner, too. Wait....what?

You may be right about being licensed by Takara...I'll have to dig out some packaging. I also don't necessarily see licensing making it boutique...I see the small runs done by a small company as what makes it boutique.

---------------------------------
[pgaijin.blogspot.com]



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 01/19/2011 04:30PM by hillsy.
The Charactics Cyborg and Walder and Invader minis were licensed. It's why they were so overpriced at retail. They are gorgeous figures, though, and worth tracking down now that they are cheaper.



My tastes are reasonably varied... I love standard and mini-sized kaiju of all walks of life, but I prefer the thought of heroic humanoid characters beating on them to kaiju-on-kaiju fights, even though I never saw any Ultraman as a kid, just Godzilla movies.

I also really enjoy the 'kitcshy' fight figure stuff for a totally different set of reasons. I like the little nods inherent in both Secret Base and Real Head designs, but both lines have evolved so far past those initial sparks that they really succeed as original, 'fun' toy lines to me.

I ALSO love vintage robot vinyls and really wish there were more modern makers coming up with original ideas. Where's the Elegab of robot vinyls? Why doesn't he exist? I want to buy toys made by the guy who's favorite anime growing up was fucking Dorvack.

Introducing Prometheus Rising Studio.
[prometheusrising.net]
I make 3D printed mecha action figures.
Sanjeev (Admin)
Well, I get the classic metal hero style...but what I meant was what *specific* Gargamel toys do you like? I'm not familiar with everything that's out there. I just sorta see overpriced cute crap on top of more overpriced cute crap...sitting on top of a metric tonne of more overpriced cute crap. I know that's not an entirely fair statment because a diamond's still theoretically a diamond--whether it's in the rough or in a big pile of other diamonds...

But it is what it is. That's the majority of designer vinyl to me in a nutshell.

So...impress me.

See, that Walder-like thing Ben posted is nice...but to me, it's little more than a curiosity. Not something that fills me with wretched hate, but certainly not something I'd spend more than a minute or two looking at (let alone paying for).

There are exceptions to all our rules--like, I have those M1 trikes, which are cute and I guess "boutique"--but generally I've never been into cute-for-the-sake-of-cute. I dig some vintage metal hero vinyls with their arms in the air for a variety of reasons, but I see them as being totally different from the toy Ben posted. The vintage stuff is just silly and stupid and kinda terrible to me...while I find the nouveau-cute crap to be little more than an affectation. Extremely expensive and super-high quality...but in silly vintage-like poses. Irony. Hipsters like that, apparently.

But at the end of the day, I don't want a toy of a cherub made of clear vinyl with painted guts. That's not really imaginative to me. The vintage hero vinyls weren't cherubs. They were just...dumb, cheap toys made by folks in a hurry. :P
MattAlt (Admin)
"I want to buy toys made by the guy who's favorite anime growing up was fucking Dorvack."

Me too. And I know from conversations with vinyl makers here that they love those designs too. But I can speculate about a whole host of factors as to why we don't see more (any?) of them:

-The people driving the kaiju homage boom are older (= wealthier) than the collectors of Eighties vinyl stuff. The average robot vinyl freak is younger and not as able to get the capital together to make toys (yet?)

-Vinyls were a super tiny segment of the Eighties mecha boom (as opposed to the Sixties and Seventies, when they were a key part of a lot of toy lines.) So the number of people who are nostalgic for them is a lot smaller.

-Generally, mecha vinyls don't appeal to as broad of a market segment as monsters do. There aren't any examples of successful "urban" mecha sofubi out there. That makes the initial investment all the scarier.

My gut feeling is that when it comes to the "real" stuff, fans are more interested in seeing characters they know than homage. Then again, the kaiju segment seems to have been pretty thoroughly mined by now, so it wouldn't surprise me to see someone attempting an Eighties-style real-robot sofubi sometime soon. I'd check it out!
MattAlt (Admin)
>>what *specific* Gargamel toys do you like?

[www.gargamel.jp]
[www.gargamel.jp]
[www.gargamel.jp]
[www.gargamel.jp]
[www.gargamel.jp]
[www.gargamel.jp]
[www.gargamel.jp]
[www.gargamel.jp]
[www.gargamel.jp]



etc. etc.

Taste is such personal thing that if you don't dig it, you don't dig it. But you're going to have your work cut out for you, convincing me these guys don't have their finger on the "vintage vibe." :)
MattAlt Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Then again, the
> kaiju segment seems to have been pretty thoroughly
> mined by now, so it wouldn't surprise me to see
> someone attempting an Eighties-style real-robot
> sofubi sometime soon. I'd check it out!

Someone did, and you have them:

[toyboxdx.com]

Two robutts from one show is not enough, though. We need more. Like hundreds more.
MattAlt (Admin)
The exception that proves the rule? Plus, much as I love those things they're sorta "devolved" in comparison to actual Eighties sofubi. (Whereas vintage-style collectible kaiju makers have pretty much nailed the old-school aesthetic and are improving/riffing on it.) I don't think anyone's made a robot sofubi that matches the old TTs or Bandais for detail.
Sanjeev (Admin)
Well, Zollmen made that "Mad Baron", right? Granted, that was more 70's super robot than 80's mecha...but it's certainly popular. So there IS hope!
No urban vinyl mecha?
Do the ones by Rob DeCastro count? Panzer Ace and stuff?
<So...impress me>

Not worth the energy I would need to expend, not to mention I *specifically* named them all above. You either like it, or you don't. I've got most of what Matt posted (got the pic floating around somewhere), but if the links he posted do nothing for you, me posting a pic won't make any difference. The reasons you *don't* like the hero vinyls are the reasons I *do*.

---------------------------------
[pgaijin.blogspot.com]
Roger Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> MattAlt Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> > Then again, the
> > kaiju segment seems to have been pretty
> thoroughly
> > mined by now, so it wouldn't surprise me to see
> > someone attempting an Eighties-style real-robot
> > sofubi sometime soon. I'd check it out!
>
> Someone did, and you have them:
>
> [toyboxdx.com]
> 1
>
> Two robutts from one show is not enough, though.
> We need more. Like hundreds more.

I've never seen those before. Why have I never seen those before? The Clover vinyls are tough to find... are the Sunguts ones even harder?

Introducing Prometheus Rising Studio.
[prometheusrising.net]
I make 3D printed mecha action figures.
Sanjeev Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------

> I guess the thing about Gargamel that sorta bugs
> me is that they have precious few sculpts that
> interest me in the remotest. In terms of
> standard-size kaiju, beside the Bagun they just
> released, they have ONE friggin' body with, like,
> 3 heads ("Zagoran", whatever they call the
> Siberian Iron Beast...Bakobako, or something, and
> three-eyed lizard dude).

You are overlooking the two standard Hedoran sculpts.
Two different sculpts.
Three if you include the flying Hedoran.
<The Clover vinyls are tough to find... are the Sunguts ones even harder?>

I can guarantee it...Sunguts produced stuff in far lower numbers.

---------------------------------
[pgaijin.blogspot.com]
hillsy Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> >
> I can guarantee it...Sunguts produced stuff in far
> lower numbers.


The necessary lines of communication have been opened. I will not rest until they are mine.

Introducing Prometheus Rising Studio.
[prometheusrising.net]
I make 3D printed mecha action figures.
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