[DESIGNER VINYLS] Hot or Not?

Posted by Sanjeev 
Sanjeev (Admin)
Haha..I'll take the heat for this one, guys! I suck! I just had an apparently really wrong impression of Anraku's system...and Ben just ran with it. But the funniest part is that you both (Ben and Ed) are essentially in agreement here! The market is unstable and it's nigh on impossible to be a "casual" fan: you have to be committed and willing to do the work.

It is what it is. I have no problem saying that I'm not willing to do that work anymore--I can walk away without wasting any more time and energy complaining. But I'm still frustrated about how this trend has rendered the place I used to be able to go to to discuss M1, Marusan, and Marmit toys useless to me. Now...there really isn't anywhere I can do that.

Heh...we do complain a lot here, but I wouldn't say that sounded like skullbrain. On skullbrain, no one complains about anything! That's the fucking problem! :P

"First world problems". I like that; I think I'ma use it from now on!
Sanjeev Wrote:
>
> "First world problems". I like that; I think I'ma
> use it from now on!

Be aware, when you say "first world problems", that you are joining the meme at the point when the people who couldn't stop using that term six months ago have now decided that it's annoying and are disclaiming it :3

-Paul Segal

"Oh, the anger is never far, never far." -SteveH
Prometheum5 Wrote:

> This complaint is so full of misguided frustration
> it's not even funny. Nowhere does it say that
> being a Max Toy Club member will guarantee you
> every toy you want, nor would it be reasonable to
> expect it to. As far as I remember, the TE
> Gamerudons were offered by lottery to the list...
> what could be more fair than giving every member
> of a list, the very membership within indicates
> your interest in items such as this, the same
> chance at a highly limited item? The Max Toy
> system gives the most fair chance to the most
> dedicated fans to get the stuff they like the
> most. You sound like you're just mad because you
> didn't get this particular item, and that's a
> level of stress/compulsion that sucks the fun out
> of toy collecting for a lot of people.
>
> What would you guys rather, an open lottery for
> every item? Now, instead of say, two hundred
> (making this up) dedicated Max Toy fans competing
> for limited items, you've got every Tom, Dick,
> Harry, and scalper out there signing up for every
> lottery just because they're limited. Look at the
> Paul Kaiju lotteries... the entrance form gives
> people a lottery number over a thousand at times,
> indicating that they have effectively no chance at
> winning, while flippers have every living and
> deceased relative signed up, and they'll have
> three on ebay the next night.


Ben I get you're a Max Toy superfan so I'll try to tread lightly.

A) You saying I sound like I'm mad because I could not get a Gamerudon is way way off. Seriously if I was that gung ho for one I would have enrolled in the Fanclub and been entered in the lottery. Kind of ticks me off you're so quick to lump me in with the rest of SB in the sense that you think I'm only after high priced shit. Could not be further from the truth. I'd never enter any lottery for anything unless I really wanted it. Implying I'm one of those people who enter for resale does not sit well with me Ben. I dig my M1 as much as say that Mecha Ju...

B) Nothing Max Toy puts out interests me. I don't get why people go nuts over it. Sculpts aren't that original and he's very heavy handed with his paints. But hey more power to people who dig it. I'm one less person you need to worry about trying for anything. Only item I ever slightly wanted was a TE GID Gamerudon (Sato's versions) and I wasn't going to go through hoops for it.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 10/27/2011 08:59PM by Lixx.
I am a big Max Toy fan, but I was responding to what sounded like a pretty wild accusation on your account... I assumed you were upset over not getting a Negora, so my bad on not knowing you don't collect any Max Toy. You brought up the Gamerudon, though, a release from like, what, two years ago? You threw down a pretty heavy sounding grievance ('a bone to pick') over what sounds like a grudge against the way the Max Toy list works, but I'm not seeing a better solution in your response.

I would never lump you in with the flippers or the hype-followers, since I know you and you're a real collector but I'm also not sure where in my posts you felt I was suggesting that. That said, if you're not in the Club AND not interested in the Negora, why are you mad about how it was sold? IS your whole beef over how the Gamerudons worked? Not everyone gets every toy they want, unfortunately, but a system like the Club does help. Obviously not everyone that enters an open lottery is a flipper either, but there's a very tangible basis for why makers chose to segment their market, in order to both gauge demand levels and make the best effort to get the toys into the hands of people that actually want it.

Plus, if you only sort of wanted the Gamerudon, then Ed's point still stands, that the people willing to go the extra mile, or jump through the hoops, are the ones that get rewarded. Not every Club member got one not because of any prejudice, but because there just weren't that many to go around.

Introducing Prometheus Rising Studio.
[prometheusrising.net]
I make 3D printed mecha action figures.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 10/27/2011 10:43PM by Prometheum5.
Designer vinyl seems like a tense and stressful hobby.

--------------------------
I want YOU for Moé Sucks Army
Sanjeev (Admin)
Scopedog Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Designer vinyl seems like a tense and stressful
> hobby.


A-motherfucking-men.
Another point about the Negora, this latest release is the first that hasn't been some exclusive of some kind.
So unless you're right there in the thick of it, the chances of your average Joe obtaining one hasn't been good..
That being said, the success and demand of Negora should have seen a bigger production run this time round.

However, I sit on the fence about mass production of designer vinyl figures. Despite hating missing a release, I understand the small runs. As long as the price isn't inflated due to demand and hype.
Its the same with the Buster Call Beetlars.. obtaining one of them is tough.

It's a roll of the dice. Mailing lists, memberships and lotteries just increase the odds if only slightly.
I like big runs so everyone gets a shot. But TEH MARKET will not allow that. Maybe in time things will change.
Prometheum5 Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> I am a big Max Toy fan, but I was responding to
> what sounded like a pretty wild accusation on your
> account... I assumed you were upset over not
> getting a Negora, so my bad on not knowing you
> don't collect any Max Toy. You brought up the
> Gamerudon, though, a release from like, what, two
> years ago? You threw down a pretty heavy sounding
> grievance ('a bone to pick') over what sounds like
> a grudge against the way the Max Toy list works,
> but I'm not seeing a better solution in your
> response.

Ben first you need to stop with twisting my words into whatever you would like them to to be to fit your argument. Not going to happen. Stop making assumptions I collect Max Toy first and foremost. Could care less and I don't even know what a Negora is. 'Bone to pick' is hardly throwing down the gauntlet. It's a phrase that means slight indifference in my book. Something heavier would have been "Mark's system sucks he should be ashamed."

Point two- the TE Gamerudon which was done by Sato not Max Toy happened this past spring. Max Toy (Mark) painted 10 GID maybe two years ago but as I said before he is way too heavy handed with painting for my tastes. No these 10 were offered this past spring and painted by Sato. Unfortunate that they were only offered through Max Toy since he had zero to do with them except selling them. Which brings me to this:


> That said, if
> you're not in the Club AND not interested in the
> Negora, why are you mad about how it was sold? IS
> your whole beef over how the Gamerudons worked?
> Not everyone gets every toy they want,
> unfortunately, but a system like the Club does
> help. Obviously not everyone that enters an open
> lottery is a flipper either, but there's a very
> tangible basis for why makers chose to segment
> their market, in order to both gauge demand levels
> and make the best effort to get the toys into the
> hands of people that actually want it.

Again I don't know what a Negora is and could care less that I didn't get one. And for the third time it is not my point.

Second: I think I've been around long enough to know not everyone gets a toy they want and again this is not my point so please stop making me out to be some whiny person which you're clearly trying to do Ben and it's not going to work.

My point,which you've obviously failed to realize and have continued to take my words out of context to suit your argument IS THIS (and it's already been made by others here):

Why should anyone have to pay for the privilege of being able to buy from a certain maker? How is that fair? Someone has already said here it seems a waste of his hard earned $50 if he's only after 1 or 2 figures a year from Maxtoy, how does that $50 get him any closer to getting what he wants? Seems like a bit a of a rip off that the maker is collecting $50 from potentially 1000's of people then only releasing a handful of figures. Seems a bit shady to me actually. Does Elegab do that? Nope they're very fair. It's made to order. No pre payment to email them. Mecha Ju, Zollmen? Neither of them do made to order BUT they don't charge for their lotteries?

So what I'm saying is you need to think of perception. No I don't collect Max Toy but it doesn't mean I can't comment on how I see them taking a bit of a piss on your average joe collector. AND essentially that's what any of my arguments in this whole vinyl collecting world have ever been about and I often feel my words are always taken out of context. I'm pro getting the toys in the hands of the real collectors and not trying to exploit them financially in any way. I'm anti people taking the piss and trying to make a buck of people wanting something badly. That's it in laymen terms...

> Plus, if you only sort of wanted the Gamerudon,
> then Ed's point still stands, that the people
> willing to go the extra mile, or jump through the
> hoops, are the ones that get rewarded. Not every
> Club member got one not because of any prejudice,
> but because there just weren't that many to go
> around.

Ed's point is very valid. No argument with that at all. BUT paying $50 to enter that system for something Maxtoy did not even make. Well that's not going to happen at all.

Finally I'd like to add that the title of this thread makes me laugh. That is no jab at you either Sanjeev. Designer vinyl as I see it is a term used for Western KR style toys. I don't collect Designer Vinyl. Yeah it was designed by someone but so were vintage bullmark toys. I collect Japanese monster toys, soft vinyl sofubi, kaiju. If it's not a licensed Toho, Ultra character, it's what I call Patchi or made up monster. If the term designer vinyl is being used to reflect a selling practice well I think if you read above you'll know where I stand on it.

MY final words on the matter.



Edited 3 time(s). Last edit at 10/28/2011 07:00AM by Lixx.
Having a 'bone to pick' typically indicates more than a passing disapproval, but it seems like that was not your intent, so for that part I apologize. The reason I assumed you were talking about the Negora is because that's what we were talking about.

As for the list versus open sales stuff, the short run and unpredictable demand of all this stuff makes it very hard to try and cater to casual fans that may or may not exist for a particular release. With how poor sales in general have been lately, surely you can see why someone like Max Toy would prefer to do the majority of their business only with the group that has gone the extra step to indicate they are on board for the majority of what he puts out.

As a better comparison than Anraku, look at Grody Shogun... all of his stuff is open sales (besides the show items), and that started out great, but has already turned into toys selling out instantly, a majority of fans being unhappy, and multiples ending up on ebay the next day. The Max Toy Club might make it harder for casual fans to get particular releases, but at the same time, you sure don't see a lot of Max Toy stuff getting flipped, do you?

Introducing Prometheus Rising Studio.
[prometheusrising.net]
I make 3D printed mecha action figures.
Anonymous User
If memory serves, you do get an exclusive figure with MTC membership. AND the membership does not expire. Back in the day, I think we received a t-shirt and print when we joined. This seems like a pretty good deal to me...

I would imagine the membership fees allow him to offset prices on the MTC and normal offerings as well.
akum6n Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> If memory serves, you do get an exclusive figure
> with MTC membership. AND the membership does not
> expire. Back in the day, I think we received a
> t-shirt and print when we joined. This seems like
> a pretty good deal to me...
>
> I would imagine the membership fees allow him to
> offset prices on the MTC and normal offerings as
> well.


I didn't get a shirt when I joined, but you do get a toy, most of which have been great, as well some some buttons and stickers and a sketch or some such. I can see the argument, though, that if you don't want the toy, that membership kit loses a lot of its appeal.

Introducing Prometheus Rising Studio.
[prometheusrising.net]
I make 3D printed mecha action figures.
Anonymous User
Really. I'm totally going to flip my OG MTC tee on teh bay. Gently used.
Lixx Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------

It seems to me that the toyboxdx regulars had never really taken this thread that seriously until the fretmongers from skullbrain showed up.

An (unrelated?) observation: all this Toy Max x Siccaluna x Anus x Taint x Balls x Buster Call name-drop marketing and business model reminds me of going to the horror or thriller section of the book store and seeing all these different books with the exact same title like STEPHEN KING or MICHAEL CRICHTON in giant bold letters with only a little subtitle like The Stand or State of Fear or whatever to differentiate them.

Carry on.

--------------------------
I want YOU for Moé Sucks Army



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 10/29/2011 10:24AM by Scopedog.
Anonymous User
Scopedog Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
...
>
> An (unrelated?) observation: all this Toy Max x
> Siccaluna x Anus x Taint x Balls x Buster Call
> name-drop marketing and business model reminds me
> of going to the horror or thriller section of the
> book store and seeing all these different books
> with the exact same title like STEPHEN KING or
> MICHAEL CRICHTON in giant bold letters with only a
> little subtitle like The Stand or State of Fear or
> whatever to differentiate them.
>
> Carry on.

How is that different from any other toy line or producer? Simple branding. Bandai. Popy. Chogokin. Gundam. Votoms?

Since you seem to be here only to make snide remarks, I don't understand why you bother to follow the thread. Or maybe I do.

Carry on.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 10/29/2011 11:37AM by akum6n.
akum6n Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> How is that different from any other toy line or
> producer? Simple branding. Bandai. Popy.
> Chogokin. Gundam. Votoms?

Because those others are brands or licensed characters, not "designers" in the same context as "designer vinyl". Also implicit exclusivity generally isn't a major element of those business models. There isn't a toy called KAWAMORI SHOJI with a tiny little VF-25 or Starscream subtitle. These are subtle but important distinctions.

--------------------------
I want YOU for Moé Sucks Army
Sanjeev (Admin)
Scopedog Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Because those others are brands or licensed
> characters, not "designers" in the same context as
> "designer vinyl". Also implicit exclusivity
> generally isn't a major element of those business
> models. There isn't a toy called KAWAMORI SHOJI
> with a tiny little VF-25 or Starscream subtitle.
> These are subtle but important distinctions.


I dunno, man. I don't think there are many people paying well over $200USD for a Valk toy who've never heard of Shoji Kawamori. Sure, Bandai and Yamato don't go out of their way to slap his name all over every Macross toy...or do they? His name/face is often shown in the instruction manuals or other online marketing material. And as for implicit exclusivity, I think the rise of Tamashii exclusives and other such limited runs kinda kills your argument. This sort of thing is only gonna get worse for the big players in the game simply because they can't turn around as much product as they could before. With shrinking demand, they have to come up with ways to justify rising costs...like "exclusives". That's just the way shit works...

The thing with designer vinyl is that it's a much smaller industry, so we see the effects of a crappy economy in FAR more pronounced ways. Again, that's capitalism, baby...and Bandai's hardly immune to it.

I can understand the frustration--hell, I'm FULL of snide remarks. But once you get over the frustration and start to see the market (oops: TEH MARKET) for what it is and why it is, it all makes sense. In terms of what to buy, you can make whatever choices you wanna make, of course, but I personally feel like it makes less and less sense to waste time pretending any one particular company or industry is somehow more or less "evil" than another--when they're all following these basic supply/demand principles.

Buy what you like...leave the rest alone.
ed
I have no idea what the hell most of the other threads on this board are about, aside from the vintage area.
I do, however, know that there are tons of transformers and other plastic toys that folks here collect that have "exclusives" released all of the time. It's no different, just on a much bigger scale. Target, walmart, toys r us, etc.

One fact remains the same for all of it, if it wasn't exclusive or limited edition, people wouldn't froth at the mouth to get it. It's part of that addictive aspect of our brains, I completely admit to doing it in the past.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 10/29/2011 09:52PM by ed.
This thread has turned into too much fluff.. less argument more vinyl.

I'm waiting shipment on the NYCC Mongolion and keeping my ear to the ground for the next Negora.

Unfortunately I haven't seen any new sculps that grabs me..
Scopedog Wrote:
>
> There isn't a toy called KAWAMORI SHOJI
> with a tiny little VF-25 or Starscream subtitle.
> These are subtle but important distinctions.

But there is a whole line of toys that say COMPOSITE VER. KA on the front in much bigger letters than the name of the robot. That's not literally Katoki's name, but it doesn't signify anything other than Katoki.

Sanjeev Wrote:
>
> I dunno, man. I don't think there are many people
> paying well over $200USD for a Valk toy who've
> never heard of Shoji Kawamori.

Ehh, I don't know, I think there are plenty of casual anime fans who buy toys from their favorite anime but don't really spend time among the type of fan communities that keep up with designers and production staff and such. I don't know if anyone outside hardcore collectors buy DX chogokin. But in general, among the toy-buying fans I know, I'm fairly certain that the anime itself is generally the strongest motivator to purchase character goods, regardless of awareness of the design staff.

> Sure, Bandai and
> Yamato don't go out of their way to slap his name
> all over every Macross toy...or do they? His
> name/face is often shown in the instruction
> manuals or other online marketing material.

Well, yeah, but there's a difference between maintaining awareness of the designer and using the designer as the key selling point.

-Paul Segal

"Oh, the anger is never far, never far." -SteveH
I like this.. The plush inside is a bonus.



[www.medicomtoy.co.jp]
Sanjeev (Admin)
I saw a couple of these painted up nicely at In Living Kolor, Boston. Not bad, but the sculpt doesn't move me THAT much. I kinda feel like it only really looks good in clear vinyl with lots of weird glittery paint effects.

Fortunately, that was how they looked at ILK...





By the way, I'm not into plush stuff, but that's a REAL cool idea!
Your right, the sculpt isn't great.. its a bit of a mess actually.. but the clear varieties create interesting shadows and highlights.

Which I think is what draws me to it. I have a soft spot for clear vinyls.
Sanjeev (Admin)
I don't have a particular love for clear vinyls, but the bat-shit crazy effects you can produce with Monster Kolor really enhance clears. Granted, a lot of folks feel that those effects are kinda played out...but damn...on clear vinyl, that shit is magic.

As for Daigomi, I think Ben was saying something the other day about how the dude who makes them is an art teacher at a school...and I guess all his students one year had some influence on the final sculpt of the toy. That's pretty fucking cool...even if I'm not really feeling the final product.
I'm still trying to get you hardcore Chogokin people to like soft vinyl toys, perhaps Giant Sized vintage looking Spacemen?:


Butanohana Spaceman S-Taiin by Beautification Syndrome, on Flickr
Hardcore diecast collectors are high on precise quality paint apps, especially modern collectors (SOC, etc.). Trying to sell this with its flesh colored paint sloppily applied around the edges of the helmet to diecast collectors is no-go. Charm via crude painting only goes so far, especially when it makes no sense.
What is so strange is that it seemingly has no connection to the smaller sculpts. Then again, neither did his paper spaceships and all from that Gargamel show...
Kingboy D Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Hardcore diecast collectors are high on precise
> quality paint apps, especially modern collectors
> (SOC, etc.). Trying to sell this with its flesh
> colored paint sloppily applied around the edges of
> the helmet to diecast collectors is no-go. Charm
> via crude painting only goes so far, especially
> when it makes no sense.


Wasn't trying to sell it to you. Those robots make no sense to me either.. Guess this is why I rarely post here except this thread in the last few years.
Lixx, sorry, but you misunderstand me. I don't mean you are trying to unload that figure on someone here. I just mean you are trying to sell us on the idea of liking this particular figure. No disrespect intended regarding your post or your interest in this figure. I personally just find this particular one kind of sloppy in the paint department. And reading so many SOC threads on this and other boards, it seems to me that diecast collectors are really into precise paint applications. That is all I mean. With vinyl kaiju, random spray all over the figure is great. But if its kind of a humanoid figure, it just seems to me that the face paint should not overlap onto the helmet that much. ;)
Sanjeev (Admin)
I dunno, Myles...

While most of the long-time members of this board couldn't care fucking less about non-licensed modern boutique designer whatever-the-fuck vinyl, I would say that almost *all* of them own either some vintage vinyl or vintage-style modern stuff. And, in fact, I would go on to say that the majority of the long-time members of this board don't particularly like SoCs (not that discussion of them is somehow off-topic or unwelcome in any way).

But either way, I can't imagine the hardcore chogokin collectors here dismissing this toy simply because the maker didn't use paint masks to color it. I personally dig it.
There must be something in the water tonight. A whole lotta misunderstanding and/or overdissecting. Ha! :)

While you and many other have no interest in SOCs, the concept with vintage diecast is the same. Show me a vintage diecast toy with sloppy paint? I just used SOCs as an example because they are being discussed in a hell of a lot more detail than a vintage item. While we don't discuss it in terms of vintage because they are obviously old and you take what you can get, the new items are dissected ad nauseum. Since you don't particularly care about SOCs and their ilk, maybe you don't follow the threads as closely, but most modern collectors are very discerning about quality in not just technical terms but also paint application (see CollectionDX and Robot-Japan reviews). If vintage style toys were still being produced today (i.e., new toys that might interest you), I am sure you would be very particular about the quality. That is all I am saying.

As to vintage vinyl robots and heroes and such (which if you are saying most people here have vinyl, this is most likely what the majority would have), most of those paint apps are also pretty close. While there is certainly straying (they cranked out tons, skill of labor is questionable, etc.), its not as bad as this. In general, kids back then would be upset with getting a toy that looked like this.

Now, if you are looking at this as a modern day vinyl collector who accepts this sort of thing, that is different. But in terms of most robot collectors, I would guess that something this sloppy is not acceptable, at least in a humanoid figure. Lixx addressed his thread to hardcore chogokin collectors, so I tried to answer in terms of those particular collectors.

Granted, I don't like to speak for the masses, because you can always find a sample size to fit any argument. But I think that what I am trying to say is a good guess. Anyway, try not to dissect this response too closely. I don't really care to cross-check every word and phrase - I am just getting across a general concept.

If you like the sculpt and the paint job, I'm glad to hear it. Just offering up some thoughts for discussion, that is all.

To me, the paint on the face seems so heavy-handed that it almost seems like it was brushed on in excess. So maybe that is why it rubs me the wrong way. I suspect that this color was just thicker than the paint used in other places (or at least on most other figures). For vinyl, it seems to me that most painting is lighter.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 11/07/2011 10:38PM by Kingboy D.
Sanjeev (Admin)
I get what you're saying. I just don't agree. At all. But that's cool. I don't mean to "dissect"...I just figured I'd try to explain why I disagree.

Anyway, here's something way different:

Onell Design's new Big Rig vinyl. Holy shit...I was totally on the fence about picking one of these up because even though I love the Jetfire tribute, I think the toy would look fucking HOT in drab, militaristic "real-type" colors. If and when they release one like that, I'll probably sell this and pick up the real-type.

What's interesting for me is that I never actually got around to picking up a standard Rig when they first came out. I hesitated from the start because even though it looked like it could be a fun toy, none of the colors of the released versions really impressed me. In terms of raw play value, it just seemed a bit too simple to me. But the addition of the huge wing/booster arms and the piled-on weapon bits make the Rig SO much more amazing. Now, I know a lot of heads hate the whole "look! I can lie down on my face...therefore, I'm a Transformer!" thing...but this is a VINYL toy that manages to pull it off convincingly enough, in my opinion. And believe it or not, it sorta has three modes like a Macross Valkyrie! Check it:



This is a sort of transport mode. I wish the joints were tighter because it's pretty easy to knock the limbs out of alignment...thus making this "mode" kinda awkward-looking. Maybe Doughty will address that in a later version. But for now, I get that it looks like a somewhat random pile of shapes...but at least it's a neat pile of shapes! I really shoulda taken a pic of a regular Glyos figure riding on top of it...

Aiight, twist a few parts, tilt the thing upright, and you get the sorta-GERWALK mode:



Okay, it's more akin to a Destroid from Macross than a Valk's GERWALK mode. It's short, it's stubby, and it's got big-ass cannon-arms! I fucking love this mode...but again, like an ass, I'm now realizing that I shoulda pictured it with some regular Glyos figures standing next to it for scale.

Aiight, turn it around, rotate the arms, and you have the battroid:



It's kinda humanoid-ish...right? :P Well, whatever...I think this mode looks pretty cool, myself. Here, you can really feel the Jetfire w/super armor vibe. And now that I'm writing and thinking about this more, I'll add one thing to my Glyos wishlist: I'd love some sort of real-type color version of the Big Rig...but I also want some matching Glyans (with matching tampo-printed insignia!) to go with it. I think that'd be pretty killer!
Sanjeev Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> I get what you're saying. I just don't agree. At
> all. But that's cool. I don't mean to
> "dissect"...I just figured I'd try to explain why
> I disagree.


I hear ya, and as I'm glad we are discussing this. I just fear that all too often, it seems that people pick apart posts sentence by sentence as people seem to get worked up over other's opinions. I am just trying to get across a point that is 1,000 times easier to just verbalize in person. Its late, I'm typing in a stream of consciousness, you get my drift, I'm sure. I'm glad you explained your thinking on this.
Erik Sjoen (Admin)
"Show me a vintage diecast toy with sloppy paint?"

Ummm... Seriously? Bullmark, Takemi or Marushins? I've seen some real fucking slop jobs over the years. Wow, Victora's are pretty bad as well.. Anyway, I'm about as "HARDCORE' as they come when we're talking Chogokin or Gokin. I actually collect REAL Chogokin though, not that modern crap that's not even made in Japan by a sinister company called Bandai that just wants your soul.. ;) For example, I'm finishing Popy GA-GB right now, and I'm close to the end. Does that quantify just how "HARDCORE"?? HA! I'm just busting balls..

But seriously, I don't care for that particular figure, but I dig some of the new vinyl modeled after vintage sofubi. I collect copious amounts of vintage sofubi, so I guess I'm either an example of most of the old guys or a hybrid in this discussion, based on who believes what. As far as I'm concerned the sloppy paint spray is a huge part of the aesthetic and the allure for me in vintage sofubi, yet it's the exact opposite of the well engineered pristinely painted Popy Chogokin that I hold just as dear. I can tell you without question, at least in the circles I run in, that most of the "HARDCORE" collect both with a dash of modern. My two cents. E



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 11/07/2011 11:56PM by Erik Sjoen.
Come on. You guys really don't see a difference between this and at least making an attempt at painting between the lines? And as someone who would drop hundreds (or more) on a MIB vintage toy, you mean to tell me you don't care about quality?

Maybe there is just a major aesthetic difference when comparing vinyl versus diecast. But again with vintage vinyl robots and heroes, the paint is usually close to being in the right spot. That is all I am saying.

Would someone discount this figure merely based on that alone? I guess not. But it does bug me on this particular figure.
Sanjeev (Admin)
You're forcing me to "dissect".

I don't see why the maker of that thing would care much about painting between the lines. In fact, scratch that: I can see him or her intentionally painting *outside* the lines given the quaint pop-'50's scifi aesthetic of the sculpt.

The point, I guess, being that paint masks and hard edges does NOT necessarily equate to "quality" for many of the hardcore chogokin collectors on this board (i.e., the audience Lixx was directly soliciting opinions from...not Robot-Japan or CollectionDX, where "adult collectibles" like SoCs are likely more popular).

Also, I have lots of vintage robot vinyls in various scales. Their paint is all over the fucking map...so I'm exactly sure where you're getting the opinion that their paint ops are more precise. Either way, again, most folks around here I talk to don't just collect hero or robot vinyl...in fact, I'd say it was mostly kaiju...just like it is among Japanese collectors.

And like Erik said, there are definitely some sloppy chogokin out there. The venerable Bullpet Godzilla, for example, was gloriously free-hand sprayed by a mom in a Japanese factory back in the day. But I think you're right: there IS an aesthetic difference when comparing vinyl with diecast. If this particular figure bugs you, okay cool...just say that and explain why. I don't think generalizing about what hardcore chogokin collectors here are (or are not) into makes a lot of sense in this case.
I think I might have addressed the wrong crowd. I assumed (wrongly) Chogokin meant all robots, not just die cast. Sorry I don't know my robot sub divisions. I thought it meant Mazinger, plastic and vinyl versions etc also. My bad.

Anyhow yeah the pic I posted is Butanohana's first attempt at a vinyl toy from 1997. The only do mini licensed characters now and the sculpts are crude and full of character. The spaceman is called S-Taiin and is based off of one of his drawings. If you've ever seen these drawings they look like story lines fro ma children's book. It was never made to be precise, sorry for the confusion.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 11/08/2011 11:20AM by Lixx.
Sanjeev Wrote:
>
> The venerable Bullpet Godzilla, for example, was
> gloriously free-hand sprayed by a mom in a Japanese
> factory back in the day.

The "by a mom" part makes this hilarious to me.

-Paul Segal

"Oh, the anger is never far, never far." -SteveH
I'm a lot more bothered by the fact that the leg is all wobbly than the paint. But I'm not really a vinyl collector. The only real vinyls I have are the reissue of the Mekamachine Mechagodzilla 2 (which I loooooove) and the giant Krang and Android Body from Ninja Turtles. Both of them have a groovy menace to them while at the same time being kinda goofy. Both are chubby. Both have scary "rar" expressions on their faces. Both have interesting molded details (bolts, stitches, et cetera) and play gimmicks (firing missiles on MechaG, a gut closet with a poseable brain inside it for Krang)

No offense to anyone, but this spaceman guy just looks doofy and low detail in the sculpt. So while I realize it's not an aesthetic I'd probably dig either way, this does not blow me away in design terms. It kind of reminds me of the Mexican blow-molded Jumbo ripoffs Nekrodave collects.

-Ginrai
Golden Gate Riot on dead trees at: [www.destroyallcomics.com]
> Prometheum5 Wrote:
Look at
> the
> > Paul Kaiju lotteries... the entrance form gives
> > people a lottery number over a thousand at
> times,
> > indicating that they have effectively no chance
> at
> > winning,

Watch it there Ben.
You usually take everything you see at face value?

You don't fucking know that. You are assuming.

I thought i could come here and feel like a fellow collector, but every time I look at this thread it's the same bitching on hyper repeat.
Ya'll make it so.

Sew what you reap.

A nice place other than SB, if I want to have steamed balls.
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