[DESIGNER VINYLS] Hot or Not?

Posted by Sanjeev 
I have an acquaintance who has a big veiny purple cock with bat wings, covered in warts tattooed on his ass. It's also skeeting from one cheek to the other. And the guy in a mega pimp. Bitches love him. Doubt the Nag will stop that guy from getting hipster tail.

Dunno. They make marbled vinyl?
ed
It is marbled vinyl.

I saw this toy at sdcc and I also have toys that are marbled vinyl.
Sanjeev (Admin)
Yeah, marbled vinyl is just two different liquid plastisols loosely mixed together, then dumped into the mold to cure.

Anyway, "Shig", huh? These kids are all not only on first-name-basis with the guy, but they also have a nickname for him? I'm sure...

And I guess I'm not following the hoarding thing. I guess we saw that sort of thing at Morphy's with the sheer volume of unopened designer vinyls, but he wasn't the type to interact with the rest of the "community", let alone use that stuff as trade/flip bait. Not to make you deal with something you've already washed your hands of...but what gives?
ed
There have been people over the years who buy 3,4,5 10 of the same toy and hang on to them. When there are less than 20 or 30 of them, this means you control the flow and level of them and how many people actually can get their hands on them.

It's disappointing to me because I imagine some of these people just keep this stuff in a box somewhere, keeping it in wait to dangle it in front of someone to extort some equally rare toy from them.

It's an obnoxious way to collect.

This, by no means and I mean NO means, has anything to do with dudes who collect vintage figures and like to have varying copies of toys. I look at it differently because in those instances, guys find one they like and buy it. They see one in better shape, they pick that up and sell the older one to fund it. Or they want to keep one on display and one in a case somewhere. I get the OCD aspect of situations like that.

The scenario I describe above happens more often than some of you guys would probably realize/want to know about.
Designer vinyl one-off custom paints from Gargamel's anniversary show. Not sure how I feel about these anymore. Used to be more taken with them in the past. But at a certain point, it's $$$ for paint on the same old sculpt when I can get a (sometimes better looking) production piece for $.


Sanjeev (Admin)
I guess this is the problem when there are so damn few of these toys being made. With vintage, obviously it's a case of tracking down a rare item in the wild, but those toys were mass produced. Modern vinyl is made in so low numbers (or even one-offs like Peter mentioned), you get these dickholes fighting over scraps like "civilized" rabid dogs...yet claiming "RFSO!" "Punk!"

What nonsense.
ed
People who joined that board a month or two ago and use the RFSO term are idiots.

It bugs the hell out of me what has happened to the hobby I used to love so much. Sorry dudes, having a burnt out day today. Over all of the bull and garbage.

As for the gargamel paints these days, some are really great and others are just meh. I don't think anything new warrants the high price tags though.
I love this thread. I mean I understand not wanting to turn it into a bitchfest about that other board, but hey it is a place to vent constructively without being told "you're just a hater" etc.

The kid with the NAG tattoo is an idiot. I mean really? A year ago he was all into Siccaluna, then realized it wasn't cool enough and decided he better get on the "hype train express". It's like a competition to see who can be the king of idiots over there! One of the many hype cheerleaders on that board which make me want to be there less an less. I generally try to stay out of toy conversations and focus on whatever topics about shows I like. Sad.

The one off trend sucks IMO. It's a money making ploy to charge more for a toy that would usually be 100's less. Sometimes less is more when applying paint to a toy. most customs I see are gaudy and overdone color nightmares. I've said it before and will say it again. Just concentrate on some good color schemes. Maybe I'm just over simplifying- I collect toys not art.
Sanjeev (Admin)
I think the thing about one-offs is that a lot of companies have no choice. The hobby is eating itself. I mean, so few people are buying vinyl nowadays...and having a larger production run languishing on retailer shelves is DEATH to a small company. Not only are retailers going to be less apt to reserve pieces from future runs, but it kills the "collectibility" of the toyline in the minds of consumers.

By forcing such tiny runs, you're sorta guaranteeing evergreen product. But it's definitely a sign of a rapidly-deflating market...
ed
It's less about buying what you like in actuality, and more about how many people you can impress with how much rare stuff you can accumulate.
Is it really that so few people are buying vinyl or just that there's so much product out there competing for dollars? A bubble about to burst cause of just too much?

Secret Base and the fight figure market collapsed a couple years ago.
RxH peaked and collapsed and now does micro-runs.

Gargamel is supposedly the crown jewel of contemporary designer vinyl.
They started in 2004 if I remember correctly. Completely different market back then.

A quick scan and you see price cutting:

[super7store.com]

Ed, I see it somewhat like that. People buying one-offs cause no one else will have that specific one. Which to me is somewhat odd, cause you can't really bond (or share) with someone who collects it too.

Example, say a certain jumbo. Maybe hard to find, but you track one down. Then you learn that someone else has one, and you can have some dialog and share some insights or appreciation about it as you both have one. One-offs, to me, are just a one-way street for the most part.

Not saying I don't have one-offs or individual works of (shudder) art by say Dehara, just saying its different than collecting something mass produced. I can get alot of pleasure and milage from something mass produced if I'm really into it. For some collectors, I'm not sure if that's possible.

Then finally, I think there's probably a number of collectors here and elsewhere that are guilty of having toys in boxes, even if they rotate them around. But they are personal collections (maybe approaching hoarding) and not dangle trade bait...
ed
I have toys in boxes, no doubt about it. I'm selling them off because I don't want the clutter in my house.

I'm not saying people who buy lots and keep them in boxes are jerks, what I am saying is that there are specific people I know who buy things because they know someone will want it down the line and they dangle it in front of said person until they trade.
The same people complain about other things that they aren't able to get ahold of for whatever reason.

Sad. It just proves that some people aren't in it for good reasons.

I have one offs as well, but I look at those as something I can share with some friends and compare the similarities and differences collectively between us.
I find myself not buying a ton of vinyl lately, but what I have bought has tended to be more 'special' things like one-offs, or special short run hand paints. I am good for at least a couple of one-offs by Nagata a year, and have focused more on things like the Mount Kobo Max Toy mini set, which was painted by the Billiken guy, or artist-painted stuff like Garakutaigas and Elegab's figures. I think you can definitely bond over collecting one-offs and hand-paints just the same as 'factory' toys, like Ed said, by comparing the similarities and differences.

Being home on break for the last month and working every day, and only checking most forums and crap once in the morning at once in the evenings has renewed my perspective on all the 'scene' bullshit. I'm much more content to buy stuff I like as I hunt for it, and talk about it with two or three people than getting caught up in lame forum drama these days. Except Nags, where I do still thoroughly enjoying pushing a certain mega-collector's buttons. Even then, all of the BS and crazies surrounding that still takes most of the fun out of bothering them.

Introducing Prometheus Rising Studio.
[prometheusrising.net]
I make 3D printed mecha action figures.
Sanjeev (Admin)
liquidsky Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Is it really that so few people are buying vinyl
> or just that there's so much product out there
> competing for dollars? A bubble about to burst
> cause of just too much?

That's a damn good question.

What I hear from Japan is from the individual makers...but if they're saying "no one is buying vinyl anymore", it COULD just mean that there are the same number of collectors out there, and assuming that they haven't changed how much they spend on toys per year, they're buying less of *that* individual maker's toys simply because there's so much other crap out there now.

I think it's probably a little of both. Because of the glut of product out there--and many of it coming from "fans-turned-toymakers"...with questionable artistic integrity--a lot of collectors (myself included) are kinda turned off, and as a result, collect less. And like above, steadfast collectors' dollars (or yen) are spread thinner among more manufacturers, presuming they don't make more money than they did a few years ago. But I think there probably ARE fewer collectors, overall, today than in previous years...partly because of the economy, partly because of Gargamel's Zagoran now being available in EVERY COLOR THE HUMAN MIND IS CAPABLE OF CONCEIVING.
Sanjeev Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
>partly
> because of Gargamel's Zagoran now being available
> in EVERY COLOR THE HUMAN MIND IS CAPABLE OF
> CONCEIVING.


This. Remember when we were hanging out at JoshB's that one time doing the video chat and described the Zagoran as the platform toy of Japanese vinyl? I feel were were more correct than we could have predicted.

Introducing Prometheus Rising Studio.
[prometheusrising.net]
I make 3D printed mecha action figures.
Sanjeev Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> I think the thing about one-offs is that a lot of
> companies have no choice. The hobby is eating
> itself. I mean, so few people are buying vinyl
> nowadays...and having a larger production run
> languishing on retailer shelves is DEATH to a
> small company. Not only are retailers going to be
> less apt to reserve pieces from future runs, but
> it kills the "collectibility" of the toyline in
> the minds of consumers.
>
> By forcing such tiny runs, you're sorta
> guaranteeing evergreen product. But it's
> definitely a sign of a rapidly-deflating market...


Sanjeev I have to qualify your remark. So few people are buying GOOD vinyl nowadays. OK yeah beauty is in the eye of the beholder but for my money classic is the way to go. Two quick points I'd like to make, and not to deflate your original point which is correct, but here you go:

1) Shikaruna- Use to make small runs 15-30 figures. The never languished but maybe I'm thinking it was because they were new and everyone grabbed them up- and well it was 2007. It seems they went way off track starting in 2008 with one offs (starting with Doral) but now seem to be getting back on track albeit with licensed figures.

2) Elegab- Makes runs to ORDER. Not sure how this works for the owner but it really benefits people wanting the toys. Usually when he posts it's just get me a email by such an such a date. His turn around time is usually only a few weeks so he must have them on hand and I assume if he gets more email than stock it goes to lottery (not saying this happens but I can't see how quickly a factory would churn out at least 50 of these in a week, have these painted and shipped all in less than a month).

Is far is the limited thing goes. I don't mind having to work to find older missed toys. It's fun but new releases? I fight that limited hype thing all the way. It kills things for me. To purposely make things limited to have people foaming at the mouth seems a bit contrived but I won't deny it goes on, and often.
Sanjeev (Admin)
Lixx Wrote:
> So few
> people are buying GOOD vinyl nowadays.

Hehe...I find it hard to argue with that... :P

As for the manufacturers you've mentioned:

1) Siccaluna's a weird company. I love a lot of the stuff they do. Their ("his"?) sculpting is incredible, and the delicate paintwork--as cliche as it sounds--really makes the toys come to life. I got the black 4-armed Zagora with subtle purple spray, and the more recent Angry Kappa-sama. Both fantastic toys. But they ARE kinda all over the map. Like, they've done mostly licensed Sekai no Kaiju monsters, and robots like Poseidon and T28...but then stuff like Doral is just so weird. And kinda bad. And in general, their "realistic" sculpting style sometimes turns me off. The toys can sometimes lack the charm of classic Bullmarks. But again, when it comes to raw quality, they're second to none. I wonder what they have planned for the future...

2) Elegab's fucking genius. As we've discussed before, their business model of direct-to-consumer sales, and only producing to-order is great. Perhaps that's easy for them to say because they seem to have a loyal fanbase already. Either way, though, it's a good system. I only have a Tunnelan (or whatever it's called), though. Most of the other sculpts are a bit too abstract for me.

Anyway, I think Elegab's small-but-loyal following will probably see them through the next coming year or so. I worry about Siccaluna though...
I still think the Zollmen Monster Parade (Booba Gikkola,Marigon) sets are tops for minis:

Zollmen Monster Parade by Beautification Syndrome, on Flickr

Really wish Zollmen would make full size nodders of these sculpts complete with vintage style packaging like the original Yonezawa ones. I think I identified all of the Bullmark homage paint jobs on the two Ichibanboshi GID sets. Alien Zarab, Red King, Shugaron (red), Mephilas??, Shugaron (yellow) but I can't identify to homage paint for the Booba in the middle here:


Ichibanboshi GID Set 2 by Beautification Syndrome, on Flickr



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 08/16/2011 07:47PM by Lixx.
Sanjeev (Admin)
Haha....I've never been good at identifying "homage" paint schemes...even if I have the actual vintage toy sitting right next to me!

But you're totally right: these minis are among the very best. I had one of the glowie sets, and it was simply superb. Unfortunately...I don't collect mini's...so they had to go! :P

In general, I kinda dug Zollmen...well...until they released those moronic Nazi and jiggaboo figures or whatever. Shoulda stuck to kaiju...
The Monster Parade minis are cool, but I would really love to get the Elegab minis (and the Monster Patrol Car). I never see these for sale. The MPC comes up solo, but I really want them as a set.

As to the Zollmen, I dig the MG5 and the King Peporas. Again, I don't own any, but I would love to add these to my collection, if they ever come up.
Kingboy D Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> The Monster Parade minis are cool, but I would
> really love to get the Elegab minis (and the
> Monster Patrol Car). I never see these for sale.
> The MPC comes up solo, but I really want them as a
> set.
>
> As to the Zollmen, I dig the MG5 and the King
> Peporas. Again, I don't own any, but I would love
> to add these to my collection, if they ever come
> up.

There was the original first MG5 for sale on that "other board" this morning. They come up from time to time. It's a sculpt that really benefits from having so many versions out there. Something for everyone sort of speak. King Pepora's I don't see as often though.
Sanjeev (Admin)
Not a huge fan of King Pepora:

(^^PK's!)

Looks too much like an Anraku bite. Either way, I'm not really into "kaiju" like that.

The MG5 was aiight...but I ended up selling mine because--I dunno--ultimately a little too meh for me:


Maza (or Mother) was kinda neat...but I guess they're intentionally underproduced to make the kiddies froth. No thankee:


And we've seen the Mad Baron. I dig it.
Sanjeev (Admin)
Oh!

Zollmen did the standard Galtan, right? That's kinda cool, too...despite my being sick of skulls..


I had seen that MG5 up on SB this morning - thanks. But I prefer the green or pink one (and a blue or red Pepora). Its funny - only certain colors work for particular sculpts for me. Otherwise, I can easily pass, even for a good price.
Still undecided on the King Pepora despite having a couple.
MG5, never really noticed it.
Didn't like Maza at first but came around. Have the one on the left.
The standard Galtan is too much Galtan for me. Prefer the minis.

Zollmen Monster Parade are great.
I would buy standard nodders (with the original paint) without a second thought.
But they'll probably never be produced unfortunately...
I think I know the paint homage for the pinkish Booba in the middle of that 2nd pic I posted. I leafed through the Bullmark Book at work this morning was online all last night and I think it's a Kanegon tribute. I can't think of any other Bullmark's in that shade? Maybe Megalon?
liquidsky Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Still undecided on the King Pepora despite having
> a couple.


Sounds like you're ready to sell!! :)

(Just kidding)
No problem, I'm a weirdo, I rarely sell stuff.

Someone (on another board) suggested that if I sold him some stuff, that then I could afford a cell phone and running water....
[way off track but entertaining]

I had a dream this morning I met Paul Kaiju in line to check out at a store (target or somemplace) and I asked him if was going to make King Jinx into a vinyl. He said 'yes' and he had something new he was working on to show me. So he digs in his bag and pulls out this huge 20+" NYC style pizza. It's an interactive vinyl pizza. Super TMNT floppy and realistic feeling. He shows me that you can pinch the cheese and pull it back just like a real pizza. I am amazed. He leaves me one to buy at the check out. Cost me like 5$. Epic dream.
I like this Target Earth version of Mecha Gorilla (alot):




You know..A pizza job might not be so bad.



Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 08/23/2011 09:47AM by Paulkaiju.
Been quiet lately. Velocitron put this vid up recently. Very nice look at his personal vinyl makers.

[youtu.be]
This has been discussed before but I want to bring it back up with a slight twist.

So as the above video makes apparent, vinyl toy production is becoming easier and easier for people to jump into. This allows those with some seriously cool ideas and little cash to make the transition. But it also allows a lot of crap to get made. And as such the market seems flooded with too much crap (yeah yeah opinion).

The market plateaus and stifles.

So how does one become that diamond in the rough? How do you become successful when the waves of mediocre figures are piled up on you?
You go back to collecting robots. Plenty of diamonds already exist there.

Introducing Prometheus Rising Studio.
[prometheusrising.net]
I make 3D printed mecha action figures.
servbot30 Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> So how does one become that diamond in the rough?
> How do you become successful when the waves of
> mediocre figures are piled up on you?

Nepotism. Ingratiate yourself with the "cool kids" in "the scene" or already be friends with them in order to gain exposure and a pre-built consumer base. Add some hype or controversy to get attention and notoriety, then a few steps later: profit. Invest early and often because people will tend to move on rather quickly.

--------------------------
I want YOU for MoƩ Sucks Army
Sanjeev (Admin)
^^This.

But perhaps the point doesn't necessarily have to be to become "successful".

The journey, itself, can be its own reward.
Blobpus/Hanawa collab. Makes me appreciate more traditional toys with history or a back story. Maybe I look at this the way others look at Anraku...


Sanjeev (Admin)
^^I don't get this thing at all. I mean, I don't hate it...and I'm glad for those who dig it...but it does absolutely nothing for me. It doesn't hit me with the same magic I get when handling other kaiju toys (licensed characters or not). It's just sort of an odd...creature...not even necessarily a giant one.
ed
Anyone who tells you there is still a cool kids club in that "scene" (which it has become) is lying to you. There are no cool kids in the ranks of mouthbreathers anymore.(they might think they are, I can assure you they're not cool kids)

Sorry guys, I never thought I would say it, I'm pretty much (with the exception of Paul's and Pushead's stuff) done with vinyl. At least in it's "modern" state.
Maybe something here and there, other than that I'm not finding anything appealing.

It's all contrived garbage. That and not going to skullbrain anymore have put a lot in perspective for me.

Ben is right, collect old robots. Or other stuff. Just make sure you're having fun doing it, otherwise you're going to end up with a worthless pile of crap that you don't like lying around in your basement.
Sanjeev (Admin)
Funny timing: Ben was JUST IMing me about how frothing everyone was over the Sarumon (bootleg?) toy. Now, you can't give them away. Admittedly, it does make me smirk at how hollow the hobby has become...

It just occurred to me: if you're gonna collect something, make fuck-damn sure you'd still be collecting it completely in a vacuum. In other words, completely take peer validation, artist pandering, hype marketing, etc., out of the equation. If you'd still be satisfied with a shelf full of whatever it is you're considering even if no one else on Earth knew or gave a shit about it, then you're in good shape.

This is obviously not the case for the vast majority of those collecting designer vinyl...
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