[DESIGNER VINYLS] Hot or Not?

Posted by Sanjeev 
(probably stating the obvious here) Paint wear on vinyls is to be expected because they have little (if any) packaging. Die-cast toys come in boxes with nice protective styrofoam or plastic coffins, so it usually isn't hard to find specimens that have been played with but are in good shape.
I would obviously expect paint wear on vintage. Doesn't bother me just like handwriting on the feet doesn't bother me at all. But strangely, if I buy a new piece of vinyl, I kinda expect no pain rubs or cracking etc.

@Prometheum5: MFV?

Lack of play with vinyl (IMO) doesn't really bother me. Part of the appeal is that instead of having a static painting, I'm constantly rearranging a wall. Looking for the optimal setup. Or juxtaposing pieces to mix it up. Kinda like getting pleasure out of maintaining a bonsai garden.

As mentioned elsewhere:

Designer vinyl = primarily aesthetics
Diecast = mechanics (though I'm sure there's some aesthetics appeal)
Peter - Missile Firing Vinyls

---------------------------------
[pgaijin.blogspot.com]
Not Mother F_ing Vinyl, like when you get one hell of an awesome piece? ;)



liquidsky Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
>
> Lack of play with vinyl (IMO) doesn't really
> bother me. Part of the appeal is that instead of
> having a static painting, I'm constantly
> rearranging a wall. Looking for the optimal setup.
> Or juxtaposing pieces to mix it up. Kinda like
> getting pleasure out of maintaining a bonsai
> garden.
>


That's an interesting way of thinking of it. A do-it-yourself art piece composed of multiple components. I do always think of the individual pieces and how they fit next to each other, but I never considered the collection as a whole (or at least grouped segments) as art pieces.
I very much like the idea of maintaining a vinyl collection. It's easy to get a little too navel-gazing that way, but I like it as a concept. I don't have the room for it in my parents' house tho, so I just jam all my standard-sized figures onto a shelf and a half ('prime' figures, and overflow), my Monster Family and minis on another, and my Neo Eyezons in their own space with the resins. I always admire guys with themed collections by color or something... I'm enough of a kaiju guy tho, that my favorite setup would be a giant battle shelf. Burning city backdrop against the wall with roads painted onto the shelf floors, with an army of heroes in the center... couple Cpt Maxxes, JJ, Mad Baron, Getters, against an onslaught of monsters from both sides.

Introducing Prometheus Rising Studio.
[prometheusrising.net]
I make 3D printed mecha action figures.
Interesting. RxH opens a US web site to sell directly to customers.

First, RxH moves from S7 to LL.
Now it looks like LL is losing RxH to an Onell web site.
And prices are going from $60 to $50.

Unfortunately, I don't like any of the recent work or mashups.

Surprised more Japanese companies aren't selling directly to international customers. Secret Base slowly started a year or two ago. Toygraph has their web store. Gargamel next?

[realxhead.us]
I'm really wondering where this new RxH site is going. Getting US retail closer to JP was an awesome more by Lulubell, but I wonder what the relationship with Lulubell and Roto is going forward. Lulu has seemed to have a really tough, if not impossible time getting new releases out of RxH, and I even have some long overdue preorders. I would love to keep supporting Amy (Lulubell), who has done me some serious solids, and see the new RxH site limited to special exclusive releases and some more direct access to news and communication with Mori. The other big unknown is what the voice of this new site will be with it's apparent mouthpiece.

That said, RxH has been dropping some phenomenal micro-releases of classic spray-style figures that I am itching to get my hands on. And yet, the newest unexpected RxH figures on Lulu were one of those sprayed figures, and an effortless looking unpainted rub job.

Edit: Got this in the mail today... Skullbee by Secret Base. I've come around to the SB fight figures, much to Sanjeev's dismay :P. The great glitter vinyl and the printed logo on the back sold me. Just need to stuff some guts in there, of which I have spares at home.






Introducing Prometheus Rising Studio.
[prometheusrising.net]
I make 3D printed mecha action figures.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 09/01/2010 04:05PM by Prometheum5.
So, huh, there's going to be this "special" area/show at NYCC, called The Cultyard.
[dreaminplastic.com]

Looks like mostly Western designer stuffs, but who knows what else Japanese related may show up?
Sanjeev (Admin)
I got to "creative lifestyle companies whose products include urban apparel" and I decided choking myself to death would be preferable to attending such a thing.

Anyway, I'd been debating posting about this, but what the hell...

Ben made me watch (yes, he made me) the latest Toy Break episode, which made me, I think, a little more dumberer than Vincent Z's average post.

Now, I never watch this drek because their opinions usually make me want to hurl myself into a volcano. But if you have the stomach for it, jump to about 18 minutes in, where they try to "cover" the Red Carpet Kaiju show that Mark Nagata recently put on.

The bearded guy--right after talking about how fucking kewl some Erik Scarecrow garbage is--talks about how crappy Japanese vinyl is and how it's "not 1970 anymore" (clearly, a shot at the paint ops Bullmark used on their figures...and how modern kaiju artists--for better or for worse--try to emulate them). I almost threw my computer out the window. And, yes, I'm going to punch Ben next time I see him.

But miraculously, it gets worse. Ben then sent me this link to their fucking forum, where they've actually started a Real x Head sub-board. Yes, folks...these same urban/western vinyl collectors are now trying to drum up talk about fucking RxH figures...while people are actively shitting on Japanese vinyl (including the stupid fucking hosts of the gods damn show).

I swear, this shit's gonna drive me to drink...

Well, I know I shouldn't let this latest case of mass-idiocy on the internet bother me, but I'm just sharing it with you guys. It's like therapy. :P
In my defense, I was in such utter shock that I had to share, and I knew Sanjeev'd get the most out of it. On occasion I like to watch Toybreak if the topics are something I know will be lousy. I like the format of their show, and enjoy judging them and their naivete, especially when the awkwardly cover a Onell release or cover something I already know will be extra bad, and I can laugh at their tastes.

The Red Carpet 'coverage' and huge shit they took all over the entirety of Japanese vinyl was just astounding. These are the people that just opened the only English-language dedicated Real X Head forum. It's like they're speaking a different language... his criticisms were directly against the things that make JP vinyl special, and differentiate it from western stuff.

Introducing Prometheus Rising Studio.
[prometheusrising.net]
I make 3D printed mecha action figures.
Anonymous User
I'm surprised to hear this.

Give the Toy Break folks a ... well, break. They don't know anything about the "kaiju" which they openly admit in the show. Their comments echo the comments that I would hear back a few years from the now-'OGs' on SB. People are used to seeing toys a certain way, and this is quite different from mass production toys or western 'art toys.' I can remember thinking similar things in my head when I first saw some of these (during my heyday of MSiA and Fix Figuration collecting).

I find the innocence and naivete a little refreshing. When I hear the normal folks talking about RxH, it's always "no more rubs," "more freehand sprays," blah-de-blah-de-blah. Same old shit over and over again. I mean, there is hardly any substantive discussion about RxH over on SB aside from photos of the newest stuff (and, btw, everyone can finally shut up because Mori started producing the original 4 with "OG freehand sprays" once again).

With a little more exposure and knowledge, I'm sure all of "them" will become as jaded and grouchy as the rest of "us." ;P
Oh, don't get my wrong, I find their enthusiasm refreshing as well... I really like the format they have and the fact that they manage to put out a weekly video show about toys in general. I'm just a bit of a bad person, so I find them and their naivete adorable in a puppy dog sort of way. Plus, plenty of the toys they cover are just so captivatingly bad.

Introducing Prometheus Rising Studio.
[prometheusrising.net]
I make 3D printed mecha action figures.
I'm having a hard time getting angry over what they said in that Toy Break video (which was only about 2 or 3 minutes of commentary). They just don't like the vintage kaiju look. And to be fair, the majority of stuff in that show footage they included doesn't really carry the "spirit" of vintage Japanese vinyl toys, there's a lot of paint jobs by American artists.

You need to accept that there are people that just don't appreciate the vintage style, whether it's a callback to 60s Ultraman sofubi or 70s Star Wars figures. If Hasbro made a Qui-Gonn Jinn with five points of articulation and a lightsaber that slid out of his arm, I'd pounce on it. Most people wouldn't, even other collectors in their 30s.

Even people that are into vintage-style kaiju, such as myself, don't like a lot of sofubi that's being put out there now. I don't like the deliberate crudeness of the Anraku and Bemon sculpts. I really don't like the pudgy Smurf proportions of Secret Base and Real Head and Bounty Hunter characters. Does this bug you?
Sanjeev (Admin)
Not at all...in fact, I pretty much share those same tastes. It's not a problem, either, for me to accept that there are many folks out there that just don't dig the Japanese vinyl kaiju aesthetic. Part of what really bugs me is that a good friend of mine swore that the bearded guy (George) was "cool" and actually had a deep respect for old Japanese stuff. There's more...but I'll just leave it at that.

I dunno...a tad more objectively than that, I just find it a little fucked that folks can nut over a thousand nearly-identical baubles mass produced in an earth-poisoning factory in China by the ten-thousands...and then have zero respect for the traditionally- and hand-made Japanese stuff that their whole genre mutated from. Not to shit on China, of course...but it is what it is.
I actually like that Eric Scarecrow statue. The colours are neat and the sculpt looked really nice. But on to kaiju. I have to agree about some of the paint jobs on 'modern' kaiju figs. I've seen a lot of figures that match what that guy is talking about. Obviously not all, but enough to even my uninformed ass has noticed it. My real beef with the show is that little crew of people come across like complete hipster ass trash. Like what they have to say actually matters in the larger scope of things. Vinyl Addiction is less hipstery. That should say something.
According to 4Chan, my collection is 'fucking full-on hipster', so I guess I've been in denial this whole time?

Introducing Prometheus Rising Studio.
[prometheusrising.net]
I make 3D printed mecha action figures.
Sanjeev (Admin)
Oh yeah, you're a total hipster, dude. You and that Josh Fraser kid! :P

Oh and just for the record, I'd say MOST of the stuff at that Red Carpet show was, in my opinion, pretty damn crappy. Like, maybe one or two of the Blobpus toys (NOT that mouthy one), a couple of the Boss Carrions, one of those Cosmic Squadron figures, and a few Max Toy figures appealed to me. Even the Atelier Hedorah paint jobs were a too garish for me.

And I absolutely shudder to imagine what the price tags were on those toys. As we've talked about ad nauseam here, I'm not exactly a fan of the "toys as art" thing, but whatever. As long as it doesn't disturb the regular releases of a lot of these toys, I'm good.
Sanjeev Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> I dunno...a tad more objectively than that, I just
> find it a little fucked that folks can nut over a
> thousand nearly-identical baubles mass produced in
> an earth-poisoning factory in China by the
> ten-thousands...and then have zero respect for the
> traditionally- and hand-made Japanese stuff that
> their whole genre mutated from. Not to shit on
> China, of course...but it is what it is.

This paragraph doesn't make sense to me because:

- In the 70s, Marusan and Bullmark and Popy vinyls were made by the tens of thousands.

- Japan's toy factories have done their share of poisoning the earth just as China's factories have.

- What does "hand-made" mean? There are no robots involved in the manufacturing of vinyl toys, in Japan or China.
I tried to watch that Toy Break episode and had to stop after five minutes. Just reeks of hipsters who want to be seen on video. Along with send us free swag and we'll talk about it. If it was focused on vintage and very objective (no personalities or weak humor) I might find it worth viewing.

At the 18:00 marker, it still seems pretentious, IMO, to present this stuff in a gallery environment. Versus the Invasion: Japanese Robots from the Collection of Warren Schwartz museum show.

Nothing really appealed to me except some of the work by Carlos Enriquez Gonzalez (he was doing the body part sculpts) but I couldn't make the kaiju connection. Struck me as more futuristic Clockwork Orange work. Something I would see in that futuristic world rather than relating to Godzilla etc.

I agree that there's hardly any substantive discussion on SB anymore. The latest stuff does nothing for me, just seems like everyone is pumping stuff out. Just way too much.

I guess I'm jaded about the latest contemporary stuff, just as vintage guys are jaded about contemporary. Still like the "deliberate crudeness of the Anraku and Bemon sculpts". Never made the "pudgy Smurf proportions" connection of Secret Base and Real Head and Bounty Hunter characters, but I still like them. At least the early work.
josh fraser (Moderator)
"Oh yeah, you're a total hipster, dude. You and that Josh Fraser kid! :P "


I will be sure to be more gangsta and buy 5 figure polyethylene riding toys next time Sanjeev ;-)
Secret Base should make fight figure riding toys. Vinyl addicts line up outside the store at daybreak, scoot home on the riders as they leave.
liquidsky Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> If it was
> focused on vintage and very objective (no
> personalities or weak humor) I might find it worth
> viewing.

You might like this because these guys have no personalities:

[collectiondx.com]

(KIDDING, kidding...)
Sanjeev (Admin)
Peter, I pretty much agree with your take on the vid (hehe...sorry for putting you through it! :P). Oh--well, Carlos Enriquez Gonzalez's stuff does nothing for me.

And I actually have come to respect Anraku and Bemon sculpts. I don't find that Anraku sculpts (at least the few I've seen) are deliberately crude--in fact, they seem really refined. Almost too much so! And now that the hype has dwindled for the Bemon kougai kaiju (well, if you can call paying $300 for a modern vinyl "dwindled"!), I've actually picked up one. I like it. Now THAT is definitely crude...but I guess it's supposed to be because it's meant to mimic the monster on this header:



I guess even though this guy (also known as Smogon 2 or Musogon 2) was never made as a toy, so Bemon decided to make his interpretation of it. I dunno...I find shit like that kinda cool.


Roger Wrote:
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> This paragraph doesn't make sense to me because: [stuff]

Well, I was actually referring to modern Japanese vinyl toys...which are low runs made by folks with day jobs...not as their primary money-making job, but because they're fans/artists (for better or for worse). But it IS easy to get enamored with the old-guys-still-doing-things-traditionally-in-Japan thing. And point taken regarding pollution: I don't know how much more or less damaging it is to make *one* Japanese vinyl toy versus *one* Chinese vinyl toy.


Fraser, there's a sale on 5 figure polyethylene riding toys at Crate & Barrel. Gimme a call...we'll hit 'em up this week! :P
josh fraser (Moderator)
Fraser, there's a sale on 5 figure polyethylene riding toys at Crate & Barrel. Gimme a call...we'll hit 'em up this week! :P


I will be there with my skinny jeans and my ironic shirt.
I'm really impressed with this guy and his funky lineage. This is the latest Skulltoys and Real X Head collaboration. It's a Skulltoys' Dokuro King head from their Henshin Cyborg-style suit, which just happens to fit perfectly on the RxH Mutant body. The paint is matte and fluorescent and gives the figure an amazing daemonic glow effect.




This guy came today as well... not *really* Designer, but modern vinyl and fucking great. Charactics' mini Walder figure. Glass-clear vinyl with painted guts and brain, and removable head just like a big figure. It's even just about Microman-sized and is probably my new pocket rider.



Introducing Prometheus Rising Studio.
[prometheusrising.net]
I make 3D printed mecha action figures.
Anyone else see these yet? I love MUSCLE styled figures. If affordable, I'll be picking a couple up.



[cosmic-psychos.blogspot.com]
Sanjeev (Admin)
That's pretty groovy...never heard of these guys before, but that shit's cool. I dig the face sculpt, but the arms are a bit much. Wonder if they'll be posable. Oh, and the feet are kinda boring. But still digging the overall look.

Oh...regarding Ben's post, is that Dokuro King a licensed character? I don't know much about HC characters...
I'm digging those Green Death guys myself... think they're resin tho ;) I like the battle damage and the goofy proportions. Unfortunately, looking at the clear one on the right makes it look like it's non-posable.


Re: Dokuro King... the Walder villains were just original designs for the HC line. The Skull Toys Dukuro guy is a homage of sorts to the vintage suit, just like SB's suits are (Toxic Phanom-> Plantman, Demon Dude-> Satin King), but besides both featuring skulls, they really are totally different. If you want to get really nit-picky, Skull Toys' suits are really fit for the Obitsu bodies, as opposed to the Secret Base suits, which fit best on the Cyborg. ;)

Introducing Prometheus Rising Studio.
[prometheusrising.net]
I make 3D printed mecha action figures.
Aw, it's baby King Waruder.

-Ginrai
Golden Gate Riot on dead trees at: [www.destroyallcomics.com]
More designer vinyl GID junk:




I'm so stoked to be getting that Mad Baron... the GID head is going to look sick under the clear helmet. Once I saw the pics, I realized that we hadn't gotten a clear helmet version until now... some of the other versions would have looked great with a clear tinted faceplate to reveal the detail on the inner head.

I snagged this guy off Lulubell last night:



The newest sculpt from Yamomark. I got to handle the sculpt the other day and was hooked... very cool female kaijin with really neat detail. Now that I'll have two Yamo figures, I almost feel like they should be displayed separately from the kaiju, because I think they would be human-sized instead of gigantic.

Introducing Prometheus Rising Studio.
[prometheusrising.net]
I make 3D printed mecha action figures.
Sanjeev (Admin)
Y'know...I'm just NOT feeling that glow Mad Baron. The concept is great: the glowy cyborgy inner head, with the clear helmet. But the rest of the figure just seems weak.

Birabiran, on the other hand (the latest Yamomark kaijin above) is pretty cool. I don't like the stock color schemes, though. We got a chance to see some Dead Presidents' customs of that sculpt for some upcoming show that look absolutely amazing...I'll see if I can find a pic...
i really like that new glow mad baron, but havent been able to talk myself into picking up any of the zollmen stuff, stuck on the fence.

this thread is an interesting read, its nice to see some different perspectives on the modern vinyl stuff. to my mind, there is some really great stuff, some good stuff, and a ton of junk out there. being neck-deep in it, i tend to leave most of it at work and collect just vintage vinyl for sanity/insanity's sake.
Tooling around eBay today I saw some people have been offering Rose Vampires for nearly $500. Are they selling for that much? (I did see one for about $150.)
I like the GID Mad Baron, here's some glow shots:



Might not be everyone's thing but for the most part I think Zollmen does a good job in the vinyl dept.
Lixx Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> I like the GID Mad Baron, here's some glow shots:

Very Nice!

> Might not be everyone's thing but for the most
> part I think Zollmen does a good job in the vinyl
> dept.

My comments may have been misread by some, but I am definitely into this guy.
Sanjeev (Admin)
I'm kinda on the fence about Zollmen. They make a lot of CRAP...but I dig a few things they make. For example, their Monster Parade minis and that other set of 5 minis (Bulugo, Dasumoga, Jone, etc.) are amazingly well-done. If you dig minis at all, you need those guys.

As for Mad Baron, I definitely like the figure...but as I've been whining elsewhere, the hype is *such* a turn-off for me these days. I don't want to be part of an exclusive scene...I just want nice toys--toys that friends of mine can actually get if they happen to like what they see on my shelf.

It's just getting harder and harder for me to take a good toy (like Mad Baron) at face value when it's next to impossible to get one when it comes out...and the secondary market prices are well into the $250+ range. So...why would I dump $250 on a new toy when I could get a vintage Bullmark for that? Again, just saying...

But if Zollmen were to do another clear/glow Mad Baron with a different style paint job on the body, I'd consider trying harder to get one at retail. The silver, red, and blue just don't do it for me.
My take on Zollmen is this: Yeah there is hype, but it's all a matter of taste. For Zollmen (because I happen to like their homage to vintage style/design) I give a pass on hype, because I think it's warranted :) Something like Nag which is completely market driven and exclusive, does not get a pass on hype factor. It's all just hype! AT LEAST Zollmen/Garimpo guys give buyers a chance to buy these toys. So it's not all secondary market begging style. My take on that is if I like it I enter, if I don't I don't. Same if I win or lose. If I like it and lose, oh well, there will be another around the corner. If I win I'm just happy to score retail.

I agree with you 100% on secondary market though Sanjeev. Like most new limited Japanese toys you definitely (at first) will have to pay through the nose. But like any scene collapsing on itself, the beauty is that if you wait, most people move on to the next "hot thing" and within 6 months most of these toys are had below retail cost.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 10/18/2010 08:03AM by Lixx.
Sanjeev (Admin)
Mmm...that's actually a really good point. It's not like Zollmen, themselves, have engaged in any shady marketing or done anything to make their toys harder to acquire at retail. In fact, the lottery thing is probably the best one can hope for when your number of customers far outweighs your production capacity. Lotteries sorta make it fair. Then again, it still annoys me how clearly most folks just enter EVERY lottery they can just to get something to trade-flip...
Sanjeev Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
Lotteries sorta make it
> fair. Then again, it still annoys me how clearly
> most folks just enter EVERY lottery they can just
> to get something to trade-flip...

Agreed.This burns me up to no end. That's a big issue with me in a 'scene' that is suppose to help a fellow collector out. Why would you deny someone else a chance who really wants one and enter just to sell or trade flip? Shady.
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