Shin SOC News Thread (untouched by the unwashed)

Posted by hillsy 
Mazinkaiser SKL stuff, since apparently this is the thread we're discussing it in. original scans are huge, so I'm including half-size versions (still big) as well as cropped closeups.

Things to note:
-A second Mazinger Z with a "17" on its tummy and what looks like a bunch of missiles;
-A Devilman Lady-styled Minerva, named "Wingal" (?)

-Paul Segal

"Oh, the anger is never far, never far." -SteveH
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asterphage Wrote:
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> Mazinkaiser SKL stuff...


Spawnzinger? The 70s are dead. Long live the 90s.
Is there a translation for the article?
Gcrush Wrote:
>
> Spawnzinger?

I hate how people apply the "Spawn" label to anything that's gothy or spiky or has one little skull on it.

The key traits of Spawn art and character designs are:
1. Everything is asymmetrical in every detail, and wildly misproportioned.
2. There is TOO MUCH of everything. A spiky costume should have at least a hundred spikes on it. Where there is one skull, there should be six more. A character carrying a gun should have several more guns strapped to their body with ammo belts from which grenades are dangling. All capes should be twice as long as the wearer is tall.

If you saw a genuinely Spawn-styled Mazinger, you would puke all over your keyboard.

-Paul Segal

"Oh, the anger is never far, never far." -SteveH
asterphage Wrote:
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> I hate how people apply the "Spawn" label to
> anything that's gothy or spiky or has one little
> skull on it.

C'mon, now. They're practically working the same black-and-red palette into the ground. If those robots had green eyes it'd be a done deal. Anyway. Spawn had three skulls while Spawnzinger there is, at best, just one skull short. And could they possibly fit any more points on the silhouette of that abomination? At a glance I can count at least two dozen razor edges, spikes, or other dangerous looking shapages. The original Mazinger design had, what, four pointy bits? Not to mention zero skullitude.


> The key traits of Spawn art and character designs
> are:
> 1. Everything is asymmetrical in every detail, and
> wildly misproportioned.

You just described 90% of the early 1970s tokusatsu monsters-of-the-week. Ishinomori's kaiju design relied so heavily on asymmetry that you'd think he grew up outside of Chernobyl. And, footwear not withstanding, most Spawn designs were more symmetrical than you're giving them credit for.


> 2. There is TOO MUCH of everything. A spiky
> costume should have at least a hundred spikes on
> it. Where there is one skull, there should be six
> more. A character carrying a gun should have
> several more guns strapped to their body with ammo
> belts from which grenades are dangling. All capes
> should be twice as long as the wearer is tall.

Again, the over-done part you described hearkens back to early kaiju designs. As for the pics above it doesn't look like they could fit any more knives onto the back of Spawnzinger's sword. Or missiles on M-17, either.

I think you've mischaracterized the output from the Spawn design aesthetic as the aesthetic itself. Spawn wasn't exclusively about asymmetry and carnivalesque exaggeration as a concept - those were just techniques used to convey the same eXtreme, gRitty, and edGy daRkness in the artwork that the narrative was also striving to achieve. Decades earlier much of the kaiju design in tokusatsu was using the same techniques of asymmetry and exaggeration but for a different effect - they were supposed to contrast the villains with the masked heroes. If anything, the way that the Spawnishness deviates from the kaiju design is primarily in the use of sharp/jagged angles, especially in the silhouette.

Well, here's a compromise - if you don't like me saying Spawnziger I'll gladly switch to eXtremzinger. ^^
> tokusatsu monsters-of-the-week
> early kaiju designs

I don't know how to explain the difference between the critical flaws of misproportion and overkill that I see in Spawn art, and the similar traits in Kamen Rider or 70s super robot villains. Maybe it's just that the latter have a sense of balance, doing something ridiculous once (per series) instead of beating it into the ground? Or maybe it's that those are easy to laugh at when they go too far, while Spawn demands to be taken seriously WHILE it looks ridiculous. Of course, many recent super robo series have that same problem...

-Paul Segal

"Oh, the anger is never far, never far." -SteveH
> tokusatsu

Furthermore, I cannot explain how Yasushi Nirasawa, Keita Amemiya, and Tamotsu Shinohara (and I think I'm forgetting someone else who recently did some excellent work for the Kamen Rider franchise) can all design badass monstrosities every bit as elaborate and hideous as your average 90s Image Comics dark & gritty whatever, except that the ones these guys do are GOOD.

-Paul Segal

"Oh, the anger is never far, never far." -SteveH
These "Spawn bots" look crappy. Mazinger Z is a evil figther & this rendition looks like it was vomitted out of hell. Ick!
Trailer: [www.mazinkaizer-skl.com]
And if you can't view it: [www.youtube.com]
SKL looks pretty typical for a Go Nagai design.

I'd hate to see you guys react to Mazin Saga or Z Mazinger.
asterphage Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> I don't know how to explain the difference between
> the critical flaws of misproportion and overkill
> that I see in Spawn art, and the similar traits in
> Kamen Rider or 70s super robot villains. Maybe
> it's just that the latter have a sense of balance,
> doing something ridiculous once (per series)
> instead of beating it into the ground? Or maybe
> it's that those are easy to laugh at when they go
> too far, while Spawn demands to be taken seriously
> WHILE it looks ridiculous. Of course, many recent
> super robo series have that same problem...

The tokusatsu stuff was, in many respects, pretty laughable. But I think that was a limitation of the technology they had at the time as well as what could be shown on television. Many of the character designs they were working from were far more sinister. In translating the proportions and design of Ishinomori's stuff from 2D to 3D they lost something because no matter how you slice tokusatsu the kaiju were still guys blindly bumping around under tons of foam and latex...

Going back to the Spawn aesthetic, it was all about trying too hard to be dark and dirty. Eventually it all just boiled down to self-parody. Story, art, product - everything. I see the Spawn aesthetic as equal parts 1980s Metal Band and 1990s High School Trench-coat Mafia. Take your average teenage Goth kid and ask them to reinterpret a Man-O-War album cover and you'd get Spawn every time.

The way Spawn-ism looks in 2D is horrendous because of the exaggerated angles and sketched-in grit. If you smoothed out the lines a bit and filtered out the noise it does quite a bit to bring them closer in line to the likes of Nirasawa and Amemiya. Who, while still more appealing than McFarlane on average, also turn out some pretty crappy work in pursuit of the eXtreme. And it should be pointed out that those three guys are all around the same age, were active around the same time, and doubtlessly cross-pollenated with influence the way American and Japanese illustration/animation has ever since the days of Tezuka and Disney.

Anyway, here's what I mean about Spawnism - start with full-McFarlaneized Spawn, tone it down, and you practically roll right in to Nirasawa Spawnization.






The critical style difference is those goofy lines everywhere that look like they were scribbled in by Dirty McGrit. Doesn't take a whole lot of cleaning up to pull it out either. See what I'm saying?



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 06/25/2010 08:36AM by Gcrush.
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VF5SS Wrote:
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> SKL looks pretty typical for a Go Nagai design.
>
> I'd hate to see you guys react to Mazin Saga or Z
> Mazinger.


Typical? Maybe of his later work. But the SNL Mazinger, aside from its humanoid form, is almost indistinguishable from a kikaiju. I suspect that's what they're going for, too. In the Nagai stories that push Mazinger as the Devil-God-Beast they always edge closer towards the eXtreme to help blur the possibility of coming across as straight-up heroic. Same way Violence Jack or Devilman more or less looked like they guys they were killing. The original Mazinger was much smoother, like a fucking Corvette Stingray, and didn't have the same edginess that later incarnations have had. Hell, Mazinger used to fight the spikey guys - not cross-dress like them!

As for Mazingasm and Zazinger, I'm glad you mentioned them. Gives me the change to post one of my favoriate advertisements of all time.





Now, both of those covers feature 'Zingers whose angles have been toned waaay down. Mazingasm there looks nearly as round as a Guyver - even its points aren't pointy. Which doesn't scream Spawnzinger to me the same way SNL there does. Though other paintings of the design do look ridiculous when their sharp-quotient has been ratcheted up to maximum.

The SNL design is too damn sharp, pointy, spikey, slicy, whatever to look cool. And the sword with all the little knives gang-banging its back is the definition of weaksauce. I hate it with all my little heart.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 06/25/2010 08:53AM by Gcrush.
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I like the SKL design. I found the use of the old design in Shin Mazinger (albeit some changes, including transformation to big fist) to be too simple for the modern era.

SKL's sword is crazy awesome.

--------------------------------------------------------------

I asked if I have "Time For L-Gaim" but I got "No Reply From The Wind".
Zerokage and Bakuryu

Dragonar 2 & 3 scan.

Damn you Bandai with your web exclusive BS.

--------------------------------------------------------------

I asked if I have "Time For L-Gaim" but I got "No Reply From The Wind".
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Wow, what the heck is going on with that Dragonar 2? The head is wrong, the shoulders are wrong, it's missing most of it's weapons...

I smell a web-only conversion/upgrade set, to give it the correct head and shoulders plus parts to make the Dragonar 2 Custom.

Dragonar 3 looks OK. That might get a conversion kit to make the Dragoon. Because no way Bandai would milk the frame for one more toy.

but what's up with the little blurb about Yamato in the corner? Don't tell me there's actually going to be a new toy of the Yamato from Bandai! No way!
SteveH Wrote:
No way!

That's exactly what I said.
Here's Mazinsaga, manga version.

CMK
There's several HK toy sites taking preorders for GX-40 God Mars, so it looks like there may be a re-release coming soon.
SteveH Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Wow, what the heck is going on with that Dragonar
> 2? The head is wrong, the shoulders are wrong,
> it's missing most of it's weapons...
>
> I smell a web-only conversion/upgrade set, to give
> it the correct head and shoulders plus parts to
> make the Dragonar 2 Custom.
>

They're done in their Opening Silhouette variants.

I thought you were an expert.
VF5SS Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> SteveH Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> > Wow, what the heck is going on with that
> Dragonar
> > 2? The head is wrong, the shoulders are wrong,
> > it's missing most of it's weapons...
> >
> > I smell a web-only conversion/upgrade set, to
> give
> > it the correct head and shoulders plus parts to
> > make the Dragonar 2 Custom.
> >
>
> They're done in their Opening Silhouette variants.
>
>
> I thought you were an expert.


MY aren't we the little bitch today! You sure took me down with that snide comment!

Yes, I could see it was Obari styling going on there, but grabbing the B-Club Special on Dragonar I couldn't find any supporting documentation. No establishment sheets, no roughs, nothing. But after I picked myself up off the floor from your stunning bon mot I went and checked the Newtype collection for Dragonar and lo, there it is in the OP credit breakdown. Little tiny and barely shown.

So, since I haven't watched any Dragonar since it aired back in '87,maybe I might be forgiven.

I'm not sure what Bandai is going for with this then. The Obari design ethic tends to be slimmer, more organic and that clashes with the Okawara designed D-Frame core. Huh.

Ah well.
Getterzinger Wrote:
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> Here's Mazinsaga, manga version.
> [i164.photobucket.com]
> zinsaga01-145.jpg

Awesome! Never seen the manga version before. Thanks man!!!

}D
SteveH Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------

>
> So, since I haven't watched any Dragonar since it
> aired back in '87,maybe I might be forgiven.

There's always Youtube.
<MY aren't we the little bitch today>

Just another day in the salt mines, for Veef.

---------------------------------
[pgaijin.blogspot.com]
SteveH Wrote:
>
> I'm not sure what Bandai is going for with this
> then. The Obari design ethic tends to be slimmer,
> more organic and that clashes with the Okawara
> designed D-Frame core. Huh.

Do you think they might perhaps be intending these as companion pieces to the Opening Silhouette D-1 and Falguen? Could that be any more obvious? They've already released TWO opening version Soul Specs and just the one regular Dragonar.

As for the D-Frame, if you look at the scan Vincent posted, and compare D-2 and D-3's features to the skeleton from the Opening Silhouette D-1, you'll see that the D-2 and D-3 are clearly using the same skeleton as that toy. Key points of comparison include the upper arms, which are totally different from those on the regular Spec Dragonar.

-Paul Segal

"Oh, the anger is never far, never far." -SteveH
hillsy Wrote:
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> >
> Just another day in the salt mines, for Veef.

i give steveh hi-fives on his way out
Anonymous User
Anavel Wrote:
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> huh...

oh i know someone who is going to be excited about this
Anavel Wrote:
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> huh...
>
> [www.happinetonline.com]
> ct?Action=prd_detail&SHOP_ID=1&DISPCATEGORY=000001
> 100003&Class=0&KIND=0&PRODUCT_ID=4543112611475


Buh.....

Well, ain't that a kick to the head? But Bandai, why you gotta mess a player up by making this a Soul of Chogokin product? Forgot you had Soul of Popinica still? Collectors are gonna FREAK OUT it has a GX- number.

But mother F**K that's pretty looking so far, even if just one pic. No crappy 'PS game' nonsense, no distorted fatty submarine hull. Mmmmmmm tasty. Pity it's still around $240 MSRP but if it's got some nice features THAT DON'T BREAK INSTANTLY it'll be worth it.

I'm trying to think what Bandai could do to screw fans over, what kind of variant they could make web-only...tampo-printing the anchor mark on the hull as seen in Be Forever/ Yamato III? maybe a battle damaged shot to hell version? Well, regardless, this looks like it might be the must-buy toy...
Niiiiccceeee...... from that angle it's looking like the best representation of the Yamato that's come out in a long while... hopefully it has gokin content equal or greater than the Aoshima Blue Arcadia..... my guess is this is coming out to go along with the live action movie.
I can second the logic that it looks to be tied to the release of the live movie in December, but I don't think it's actually a direct tie-in. The images of the Yamato from the live movie released so far seem to indicate they used the 1/350 model kit as a base design, while this new toy looks a lot like the 1/700 scale model that they made for the recent first series DVD re-release. But again, not EXACTLY as that model was more of the 'shark mouth bow' looking Yamato from early designs...

It's all pretty complex stuff, actually, kinda need charts and visual aids :)
If any of you are interested in pre-ordering it for 15,950 Yen:

[www.amiami.jp]

I pre-ordered one, but I will quickly cancel the pre-order if it turns out to be just as plastic as the BPX-01...

}D
actually, this might not be related to the luve action flick... I just noticed in that last pic that all the fighters that come with this are the anime versions, the cosmo tigers in the live action (at least the ones in the new trailer) are completely different... hmmm...
That's what I was saying, it's not FROM the movie, but Bandai seems to intend to ride the coattails.

More pics at Amazon.jp.


[www.amazon.co.jp]

click on the 'larger pictures' link for a nice, if odd surprise.

They're including the Drill Missile. It fits into the Wave Motion Gun opening. That's just nuts. Wonderfully nuts.

Small craft included covers most of the first and second series, there's some stuff missing but nothing really vital (who cares about the first series transporters and mining vehicles other than obsessives like me?).

I LOVE the stand. That's a damn sexy stand for the ship.

My only fear now is the starboard side is going to be completely ruined by buttons, levers and gee-gaws.
SteveH Wrote:
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> My only fear now is the starboard side is going to
> be completely ruined by buttons, levers and
> gee-gaws.


or they could use some of them hidden buttons and magnetic switches

Bandai is kind of good with that
SteveH Wrote:
>
> Small craft included covers most of the first and
> second series, there's some stuff missing but
> nothing really vital (who cares about the first
> series transporters and mining vehicles other than
> obsessives like me?).

there's always web exclusive accessory sets
better get all angried up now just in case

-Paul Segal

"Oh, the anger is never far, never far." -SteveH
asterphage Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> SteveH Wrote:
> >
> > Small craft included covers most of the first
> and
> > second series, there's some stuff missing but
> > nothing really vital (who cares about the first
> > series transporters and mining vehicles other
> than
> > obsessives like me?).
>
> there's always web exclusive accessory sets
> better get all angried up now just in case


Oh, the anger is never far, never far. I doubt they'd do the transports and mining vehicles, those were...goofy, honestly. Would have made for some cool die-cast toys however.

No, what's the pattern? They like accessory sets to be in the $100 range it seems. Well, let's see.

One obvious item would be the bomber that launches the Drill Missile. A likely one would be the lifeboat as seen in Arrivederci, Yamato (maybe even with separating pod?). Probably the 4-man Missile Boat. The Landing Craft would be good.

Oh, given the interest in 'effects' parts, maybe the Asteroid Ring. given the dynamic stand that would seem logical.
Hmmm, but that's just not $100 worth of stuff. Maybe some 'blast effect' parts for the cannons or Wave Motion Gun?

And of course there may be nothing, no add-on set at all. It might be an exclusive repaint with the anchor marks and cannon rings ala Be Forever Yamato. It might be an 'erupt from the dying Earth' base.

Still, pretty interesting they kept this under the lid until now, and suddenly POOF pics that seem more than just 'painted prototype'. I wonder if they had worked on this LAST year to tie-in with Yamato: Rebirth but got cold feet and pulled the plug. Whatever. It's happening now and it looks pretty nifty. Maybe not $250 nifty (always use MSRP, sales mean nothing to the future) but yeah, nice. nice.
[collectiondx.com]

list of features
Please don't use the word "sexy" when describing my favourite phallic shaped vehicle. The drill missile subsequently conjures up some pretty disturbing images.
Shudder.
It's things like this that make me realize how little I know about the industry. I too would have assumed an S.O.P. Version 2, but, sure, shove it into a line that has been known for its focus on robots.

That being said, it's a good deal bigger than the BPX-01, and appears to be outfitted with more solid antennae. Overall, a dramatic improvement. I don't care as much about diecast as I do about quality. To this date, Aoshima holds the crown for the best capital ship toys.
Tobikage dragon thing: [www.toy-world.com.hk]
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