CM's Corporation Legioss/TLEAD.

Posted by Roger 
Sanjeev Wrote:
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> Anyway, just to put the numbers into perspective,
> with the discount offered on amiami.com (yes, I've
> ordered from them before--they're legit), the CM's
> set comes to $202.47...NOT $257 or whatever.

Wait, that's an awesome discount. I really want to avoid HLJ in the future. How do you get this discount and are they already offering preorders for this combo?
It showed up for 26600yen at Hobby Search:
[www.1999.co.jp]

The Tread is 21cm tall!
Vincent Z. Wrote:
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>
> Still, doesn't seem to be $200 worth of toy there.
> The upcoming SOC Godmarz, THAT looks like $200
> worth of toy since it's around 13in, lots of metal
> and engineering.


It's all relative to taste I suppose. I think both the CMs Legioss/Tlead and Godmarz look like they're worth 200+. The upcoming Macross YF-21 on the other hand...while it looks like a great toy I certainly don't see how it's worth 200+. Everyone at MW would disagree, but then we come back to the beginning of my post, it's all relative to taste.
Sanjeev (Admin)
That's just their regular preorder discount. I've ordered from them before through Celga. Honestly though, I don't know how to browse their site since it's all in Japanese--I've only gotten links Alt has posted here and told Celga to order it for me!

Anyway, I think the argument about price is pretty silly. I mean, it's not like people don't have the right to complain...but c'mon...NONE of these toys are worth $200. Just based on what we know in general about the myriad "children's toys" that are on the market today, there's simply NO WAY we're not getting raped on the price of these "adult collectibles". There's no way the cost of materials, manufacturing, distribution--plus all the ancillary capitalist bullshit (legal stuff like licensing intellectual property, copyrighting your product, and other such overhead)--warrant these pricetags. These big companies charge these prices for no reason other than that teh MARKET will support them.

So, ultimately, I still think $200+ is NOT a lot by today's MARKET's standards for a "high-end collectible" like this OR the SoC Godmarz. And to argue that one deal is a better "value" than the other is absurd. Sure, one can try to reason that Godmarz will probably be a better toy (more features, better construction, etc.), but clearly people are willing to pay for the Legioss/TLEAD if for no reason other than non-tangibles like nostalgia. Nostalgia commands high prices. And ya can't argue with that.

And, of course, even $50 is "too much" if the toy's a crumbly piece of shit...in my never-humble opinion.

--
Sanjeev

'Us Massholes straight up just don't give a fuck. I still pronounce "Mazinger" as "Tranzor Z".'
-Nekrodave
I've never really based 'worth' of a toy on it's physical make-up so much as "how much do I want it", which is, of course, heavily dictated by that cruel mistress called Nostalgia. Of course construction and features and all that factor in, but as Sanjeev said no toy is really 'worth' what it costs.

I think it would be interesting to see an "actual value of materials and labor" for the toys we buy. I'd like to see all the variables, like how much more cost is involved with hand-assembeled toys compared to machine-assembeled. Are there even any machine-assembeled toys or is that just something my brain made up to make me ignore the kids who put these things together for us?

Shall we get into ethical and philosophical worth? No, lets not. :(

Back to the Legioss, as far as actual worth of the materials I would naturally assume the CMS version is worth more since Toynami probably got the old candy canes that they made theirs with for next-to-nothing. Don't believe me? Go ahead and lick one, they're sweet and minty.
Sanjeev (Admin)
eriku Wrote:
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> ...Toynami probably got the old
> candy canes that they made theirs with for
> next-to-nothing. Don't believe me? Go ahead and
> lick one, they're sweet and minty.


Haha!

Another question: what's the scale on the CM's Legioss/TLEAD? Is it the same size as Toynami's?
I haven't seen anything "official", but lets go 10 months into the past and ask Roger. Roger?

"Matt Alt saw it up close and says the Legioss is roughly the same size as the Toynami Masterpiece Alpha."

Thanks Roger. And now here's Dianne with the weather.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 12/28/2007 03:36PM by eriku.
eriku Wrote:
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> I think it would be interesting to see an "actual
> value of materials and labor" for the toys we buy.

You'd probably find out that just the materials would account for about 1/5 to 1/4 of the total price, and labor another 1/4 to 1/3 of it, depending on how many parts and paint apps there are. Then on top of that, you have to pay for shipping, pay your employees, advertising, the dreaded license fee, and everything else.

> I'd like to see all the variables, like how much
> more cost is involved with hand-assembeled toys
> compared to machine-assembeled. Are there even
> any machine-assembeled toys or is that just
> something my brain made up to make me ignore the
> kids who put these things together for us?

The stuff we collect is mostly painted and assembled by hand. Imagine you're building and finishing a model kit. That's the same thing they're doing at the factory.
Sanjeev (Admin)
Roger Wrote:
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> ...Imagine you're building and
> finishing a model kit. That's the same thing
> they're doing at the factory.


Terrifying.
I use to base some of my purchases on nostalgia. That's how I ended up with a lot of Zoids and some TF reissues including Predaking.

--------------------------------------------------------------

I asked if I have "Time For L-Gaim" but I got "No Reply From The Wind".
Sanjeev (Admin)
Sure...and luckily for you, that reissue Predaking is one of the greatest toy purchases you've ever made. How do I know that? Because I have one! Nostalgia...teamed up with fantastic toy design = happy camper.

Let's wait and see how the CM's Legioss/TLEAD turns out before throwing around too many value judgements.

--
Sanjeev

'Us Massholes straight up just don't give a fuck. I still pronounce "Mazinger" as "Tranzor Z".'
-Nekrodave
There are TWO acronyms. TREAD as TRansEarthDeployment is the other one. Both of them were made up after the fact. Obviously it is called Tread because of its giant fucking feet. But if you want, there's an acronym for GUNDAM too, which is also stupid.

-Ginrai
Golden Gate Riot on dead trees at: [www.destroyallcomics.com]
Ginrai Wrote:
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> There are TWO acronyms. TREAD as
> TRansEarthDeployment is the other one. Both of
> them were made up after the fact.

I'm not sure where the TREAD acronym came from, but TLEAD comes from an Artmic document that I found in those Imai files.

I don't remember seeing either one of them used in the show.
TLEAD is at least seen on screen in the episode where they find the TLEAD and two more Legiosses. Jim holds up a diagram with the word TLEAD on it.
I want neither! $180 for something that apparently sucks and $257 for plain plastic aren't cutting it.

eriku Wrote:
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> It seems a lot of people would rather pay a little
> less for something that doesn't hold together and
> falls apart rather than invest a little more to
> get something well-made and quality. True
> Americans I tell ya.
> And to argue that one deal is a better "value" than the other is absurd.
> Sure, one can try to reason that Godmarz will probably be a better toy (more
> features, better construction, etc.), but clearly people are willing to pay for
> the Legioss/TLEAD if for no reason other than non-tangibles like nostalgia.

Then let me indulge in the absurd: Yes Godmarz will attract people who have never even seen the show and therefore it has essentially little/no nostalgic value. Yet people will pay for it. I strongly suspect far more people will buy Godmarz than would pay for the TREAD even though Mospeada/Robotech would be familiar to a magnitude more people. Therefore if nostalgia adds to the price, then clearly the intrinsically better toy would be Godmarz.
Sanjeev (Admin)
big_pickle Wrote:
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> Then let me indulge in the absurd: Yes Godmarz
> will attract people who have never even seen the
> show and therefore it has essentially little/no
> nostalgic value. Yet people will pay for it. I
> strongly suspect far more people will buy Godmarz
> than would pay for the TREAD even though
> Mospeada/Robotech would be familiar to a magnitude
> more people. Therefore if nostalgia adds to the
> price, then clearly the intrinsically better toy
> would be Godmarz.

I don't see the relevance of this argument. What we've been discussing thus far is the monetary valuation of toys--not their intrinsic value. You're saying that Godmarz is the intrinsically better toy, so more non-Godmarz fans will buy it than non-Mospeada fans will buy CM's Legioss/TLEAD.

First, I'm not so sure about this. Second, who cares?

I mean, I actually agree with you: if I were a betting man, I'd put my money on Godmarz being the intrinsically better toy. But this adds nothing to the discussion about money, what these things are really "worth", and what folks are willing to pay. Dig?
Here's a question. Which is worth more: GodMarz, CMS Legioss/Tlead, or a wish?
What the hell have you people done to this thread??

The Legioss/Tread is a classic example of a toy that doesn't command a huge fan base, so it must be done in small quantities. This in turn drives up the per-unit cost. For those of us who've been dying for a TREAD for years, and couldn't afford a Lansay, 300 seems reasonable. For those of you who only 'sorta' like Mospeada to begin with, it's a ridiculous price. Both of you are right. Done and done.
Shaggydog Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> What the hell have you people done to this
> thread??
>
> The Legioss/Tread is a classic example of a toy
> that doesn't command a huge fan base, so it must
> be done in small quantities. This in turn drives
> up the per-unit cost. For those of us who've been
> dying for a TREAD for years, and couldn't afford a
> Lansay, 300 seems reasonable. For those of you
> who only 'sorta' like Mospeada to begin with, it's
> a ridiculous price. Both of you are right. Done
> and done.


Heh, this thread is still on very stable tracks compared to the one over at MW. That one has already devolved to the level of photos with red circles pointing out questionable design choices. It's kept me thoroughly entertained for three days now. I'll leave the occasional post about how much I like the toy and it's like I'm telling them water isn't wet.
eriku Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Shaggydog Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> > What the hell have you people done to this
> > thread??
> >
> > The Legioss/Tread is a classic example of a toy
> > that doesn't command a huge fan base, so it
> must
> > be done in small quantities. This in turn
> drives
> > up the per-unit cost. For those of us who've
> been
> > dying for a TREAD for years, and couldn't afford
> a
> > Lansay, 300 seems reasonable. For those of you
> > who only 'sorta' like Mospeada to begin with,
> it's
> > a ridiculous price. Both of you are right.
> Done
> > and done.
>
>
> Heh, this thread is still on very stable tracks
> compared to the one over at MW. That one has
> already devolved to the level of photos with red
> circles pointing out questionable design choices.
> It's kept me thoroughly entertained for three days
> now. I'll leave the occasional post about how
> much I like the toy and it's like I'm telling them
> water isn't wet.

Shaggydog's post = Sensible.

Eriku's post = Dude, we get it, nobody at MW agrees with you. There's no need to keep mentioning how they keep disagreeing with you. It's not that big of a deal.
Man, there's a whole buncha uptight people here. Relax folks, yay TLEAD, remember? Never thought it'd get made?

It's been really great for Japanese toy fans lately, stuff that we'd thought we'd NEVER get in toy format suddenly appearing from that crazy little island nation, Guyver figures, Mospeada figures, (From two companies no less!) TLEADs, SOC Daimos AND holy shit god marz too, just relax a bit, things are all good now, there's no need to start pissing all over each other.

There's other web boards for that kinda stuff, just unclench a little.
gingaio Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------

>
> Shaggydog's post = Sensible.
>
> Eriku's post = Dude, we get it, nobody at MW
> agrees with you. There's no need to keep
> mentioning how they keep disagreeing with you.
> It's not that big of a deal.


Sheesh, I was just trying to point out that this thread hadn't gone to hell. Perhaps I was wrong.

I wonder what it is about this toy that is making folks so touchy?

And BTW, ToysLogic has a preorder up.
[www.toyslogic.com]



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 12/29/2007 11:40PM by eriku.
eriku Wrote:
>
> I wonder what it is about this toy that is making
> folks so touchy?
>


Could be just that it's all kinds of fugly. *shrug*
CarbonTetra Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> Man, there's a whole buncha uptight people here.
> Relax folks, yay TLEAD, remember? Never thought
> it'd get made...just relax a
> bit, things are all good now, there's no need to
> start pissing all over each other.
>
> There's other web boards for that kinda stuff,
> just unclench a little.

I think most of us are pretty relaxed. My post, which you're responding to, was not a personal assault on Eriku. I mentioned that he'd spent a considerable number of posts (several on this and the previous page) harping on MW, and that maybe he should consider stopping. I wasn't making fun of him or asking for him to be kicked off the board or telling him he's hung like a child. I mean, if anything, constantly complaining about another board is bound to create ill feelings, no?

Not that I give a damn about MW, but the constant harping is another thing.

Have we become so overly sensitive that disagreeing--once and in an even manner--with someone's posts is to be taken as "pissing" on that person?
Now someone needs to make new toys of the Inbit. I personally like the Gosu.

--------------------------------------------------------------

I asked if I have "Time For L-Gaim" but I got "No Reply From The Wind".
Perhaps CMs will make some Inbit Kaiju, in keeping with their pattern with Patlabor...

Actually, I think this was discussed earlier in this thread...
There was a prototype of an Inbit shown a few months back but I can't recall which company was making it. It was very 'organic' looking (more-so even than on the show) and bumpy, like a real crab. Anyone else remember this?

Oh, and I sincerely apologize to gingao and the entire toy-collecting community. I did not realize that a few light-hearted jokes at the expense of another uptight forum were the cause of everyone's woe in regards to this toy. I'll go hang my head in shame now. And then I'll head back to Macross World for more hilarity. Did I mention how much they hate the CMs Legioss/Tlead over there?



Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 12/30/2007 06:25PM by eriku.
eriku Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> There was a prototype of an Inbit shown a few
> months back but I can't recall which company was
> making it. It was very 'organic' looking (more-so
> even than on the show) and bumpy, like a real
> crab. Anyone else remember this?
>
It wasn't a prototype, but a one-off custom done for that show.
>
> Oh, and I sincerely apologize to gingao and the
> entire toy-collecting community. I did not
> realize that a few light-hearted jokes at the
> expense of another uptight forum were the cause of
> everyone's woe in regards to this toy. I'll go
> hang my head in shame now.

Apology accepted on behalf of myself and the entire toy-collecting community. And thank you for not bitching again about MW in the post above.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 12/30/2007 03:36PM by gingaio.
> But this adds nothing to the discussion about money, what these things are
> really "worth", and what folks are willing to pay.

What are you talking about? If a price of a toy includes its intrinsic toy value then you can say that the Godmarz should be worth more that the TREAD.

If you want a "fair price", you'll need to find out how much they are making for each toy and determine how much they should be rewarded for bringing a design to reality. In this society, the latter is none of our business.
gingaio Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------

>
> Apology accepted on behalf of myself and the
> entire toy-collecting community. And thank you for
> not bitching again about MW in the post above.

*sigh* I hate to keep dragging this on, but I would just like to point out that I have not once 'bitched' about MW in any of my posts. The comments I made were supposed to be taken as humor. I honestly couldn't care less about what the people at MW think about anything.
Not completely on topic, but how many different Inbit (or Invid I guess) toys were made in the Robotech line?



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 12/31/2007 08:35AM by eriku.
Two: the small "scout" (which was actually an incorrectly colored trooper), and a large trooper that accommodated action figures.
And a Corg action figure ;)

----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Check out my website: www.zormaster.com
Anonymous User
A few weeks ago I stumbled across someone selling custom 1/48 scale Inbits on eBay. Really nice, I thought:

[cgi.ebay.com]
I'll wait for a review before buying this toy. If its durable and well made I'll pick it up as I'm more interested in its value as a toy. I'll admit I am disapointed by some of the compromises made to the design, as some of them don't make sense to me. I'm willing to accept some if it might be a result of mistransformation, which is why I am willing to wait for a full review by a real toy fan before writing this thing off. So far, the only thing thats an absolute deal breaker is if the sticking out fins are just poor design and not a case of mistransformation. I'm not thrilled by this toy, but it is the only affordable legioss link up toy available, and it does at least blow the vintage one out of the water.
gingaio Wrote:
-------------------------------------------------------
> CarbonTetra Wrote:
> --------------------------------------------------
> -----
> > Man, there's a whole buncha uptight people here.
>
> > Relax folks, yay TLEAD, remember? Never thought
> > it'd get made...just relax a
> > bit, things are all good now, there's no need
> to
> > start pissing all over each other.
> >
> > There's other web boards for that kinda stuff,
> > just unclench a little.
>
> I think most of us are pretty relaxed. My post,
> which you're responding to, was not a personal
> assault on Eriku. I mentioned that he'd spent a
> considerable number of posts (several on this and
> the previous page) harping on MW, and that maybe
> he should consider stopping. I wasn't making fun
> of him or asking for him to be kicked off the
> board or telling him he's hung like a child. I
> mean, if anything, constantly complaining about
> another board is bound to create ill feelings, no?
>
>
> Not that I give a damn about MW, but the constant
> harping is another thing.
>
> Have we become so overly sensitive that
> disagreeing--once and in an even manner--with
> someone's posts is to be taken as "pissing" on
> that person?


I piddle on you and all you stand for. Drink my pant-noodle water!
MattAlt (Admin)
CM's had almost-finished samples of the Legioss and Tread at the booth at Superfest this Sunday, and I had a chance to get up close and personal with them. They looked really, really good. A bit "plasticy," perhaps. But one could call that an homage to the old Gakken toys.

I asked about fact that the feet of the Legioss sit outside of the Tread when they're docked. The staff explained (and pointed out) that there's literally no room for them inside when the Tread's legs are folded up into flight mode. So that's the way it's going to be. On the plus side, they engineered a gimmick so that the arm units can be slid right next to each other, making it look (in his words) "more like the anime."

In yo' face! The Tread with missile hatches open:









Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 01/06/2008 05:52PM by MattAlt.
Attachments:
open | download - tread1.jpg (384 KB)
open | download - legioss1.jpg (482 KB)
open | download - legioss2.jpg (327.4 KB)
MattAlt (Admin)
The blue Legioss/Tread is the standard retail version; I believe Green and Red will only be made available via orders placed through the CM's website.









Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 01/06/2008 05:59PM by MattAlt.
Attachments:
open | download - legioss4.jpg (442.9 KB)
open | download - legioss3.jpg (465.1 KB)
open | download - legioss5.jpg (466.9 KB)
Any word on how much metal each will contain? I see metal landing gears. Nice touch!

--------------------------------------------------------------

I asked if I have "Time For L-Gaim" but I got "No Reply From The Wind".
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